C Jay O'Brien - Toronto Marlies, AHL (2018, 19th, PHI released)

[BondraTime]

About the age thing: While at Thayer Academy, he played with Amonte who is 2 months younger than him. Both scoring leaders in that league (he was 3rd) from some Academy were older than him, one by a full 7 months.
Why are you saying he was playing prep hockey against younger kids??
edit: just checked top 10 scorers, JOB is right in the middle as the 5th oldest. So he played right in his age class unless i am missing something.

O'Brien had a full year of developmental hockey over all those kids (in Canada at least, he's born in 99' rather than 00' as the rest of the kids, some being as young as 02').

Amonte, being a year developmentally behind, went to the USHL as an 18 year old after destroying Thayer, and put up a completely awful season. He is now heading to the BCHL, a lower league, as a 19 year old. He's not an NHL prospect whatsoever.

It would be troubling for a 7th rounder, a 1st is unheard of.

 

[OldScool]

ah ok... You care a lot about the fact he was a 1st rounder. Me not that much. Not because of him, but because they drafted safely and seemed to have hit 5 picks earlier.

In 3-4 yrs who cares if the new player was a 1st or a 2nd (JOB was 2nd rounder material)??

But i get your point: he is far far behind for a 1st rounder. Agree.

Right. If he was a 3rd rounder (where he probably should have been picked) no one would really care. Yep, a 3rd round player with a bump in the road - whatever. However, a #19 1st round pick has higher expectations.

 

[bigdog16]

That bar is quite high. League leader was future 1st rounder Newhook under 2. Year before 1.27. He needs to double that to be a still a prospect? I hope Penticton is some powerhouse with good teammates to have a shot! Jost got 2.16 ppg on a 50-7 team.

OBrien wont score 3 pts a game.

You probably think he already has bad habits having played Prep school.

Uhhh Newhook was barely under 2ppg in his draft year and hes expected to be picked within 5 picks of where OBrien was taken. Jost in his draft year was 2.16...I would fully expect OBrien to put up much better numbers than both of those two as a first rounder in his D+2...Bad habits can most definitely be formed playing in leagues like this where you are racking up points

 

[OldScool]

O'Brien had a full year of developmental hockey over all those kids (in Canada at least, he's born in 99' rather than 00' as the rest of the kids, some being as young as 02').

Amonte, being a year developmental behind, went to the USHL as an 18 year old after destroying Thayer, and put up a completely awful season. He is now heading to the BCHL, a lower league, as a 19 year old. He's not an NHL prospect whatsoever.

Keep in mind Amonte/Obrien were old players for ISL and played in every single situation. They put up very good stats vs younger players and they logged the most ice time by far than any other players in the league. Its about perspective and level of play. There is a reason why D1/NHL caliber players go from prep to USHL to then NCAA.

 

[MSSLYNX]

O'Brien had a full year of developmental hockey over all those kids (in Canada at least, he's born in 99' rather than 00' as the rest of the kids).

Amonte, being a year developmental behind, went to the USHL as an 18 year old after destroying Thayer, and put up a completely awful season. He is now heading to the BCHL, a lower league, as a 19 year old. He's not an NHL prospect whatsoever.

God we are talking nov 99, you cant be serious.
I must have checked 20 players and none were born in 2001 or 2002.
Not sure what a developmental year is to be honest.

Amonte never destroyed Thayer. He maxed at 49 while OBrien got 80 in the same number of games.
I'm done here. We'll see i guess.

 

[OldScool]

God we are talking nov 99, you cant be serious.
I must have checked 20 players and none were born in 2001 or 2002.
Not sure what a developmental year is to be honest.

Amonte never destroyed Thayer. He maxed at 49 while OBrien got 80 in the same number of games.
I'm done here. We'll see i guess.

FYI...there are some 99's and 00's as well but the higher caliber 99's and 00's were long gone to USHL at that point.

 

[BondraTime]

God we are talking nov 99, you cant be serious.
I must have checked 20 players and none were born in 2001 or 2002.
Not sure what a developmental year is to be honest.

Amonte never destroyed Thayer. He maxed at 49 while OBrien got 80 in the same number of games.
I'm done here. We'll see i guess.

You seem to not understand how developmental years work.

In Canada, and the States, O'Brien would be in his 3rd year of eligibility for the CHL/USHL/BCHL, Amonte would be in his 2nd. A full year of developmental hockey. Amonte is considered an old guy in that league. O'Brien could have left to play at the USHL level 2 years before he even started his season at Thayer.

O'Brien would be aged out of high school, and not even able to play high school hockey, unlike Amonte who would still have a year remaining.

The league he played in had no quality guys his age in it, as they had all left for Junior leagues 1-2 years before.

Amonte being in the BCHL is not strange, he's in his 19 year old season. O'Brien being there is absolutely absurd and unheard of, 20 year olds in that league are bush wackers who can hardly get into a NCAA school, if they can.

 

[OldScool]

Hopefully this year was just a blip on his radar and things turn around for him and he has future success. Everyone has a different path.

 

[MSSLYNX]

You seem to not understand how developmental years work.

In Canada, and the States, O'Brien would be in his 3rd year of eligibility for the CHL/USHL/BCHL, Amonte would be in his 2nd. A full year of developmental hockey. Amonte is considered an old guy in that league. O'Brien could have left to play at the USHL level 2 years before he even started his season at Thayer.

O'Brien would be aged out of high school, and not even able to play high school hockey, unlike Amonte who would still have a year remaining.

The league he played in had no quality guys his age in it, as they had all left for Junior leagues 1-2 years before.

Amonte being in the BCHL is not strange, he's in his 19 year old season. O'Brien being there is absolutely absurd and unheard of, 20 year olds in that league are bush wackers who can hardly get into a NCAA school, if they can.

True. Now i learned than we must separate the good 99 from the bad ones. Didnt know that one. Its fine.

But how come there are many articles available that comment on OBrien's talent while playing with people older like Tkachuk who is a full 2 months of developmental hockey (kidding) ahead or that he got the invite for top international us teams, made the teams although played very minor part? Yet some make it sound like he is the pro in the garage league padding stats.

As far as second bolded i'm sure you got carried away cause we know lots of players take the BCHL then NCAA road. They could be born 2 or 8 months before or after i'll give you that. There is a cup every year so no rush.

OBrien was youngest player on Providence this season. Second closest was 2 months older. Using hockeydb numbers.

 

[TLEH]

Regardless, playing in the BCHL at 20 is very weird.

 

[AmericanDream]

True. Now i learned than we must separate the good 99 from the bad ones. Didnt know that one. Its fine.

But how come there are many articles available that comment on OBrien's talent while playing with people older like Tkachuk who is a full 2 months of developmental hockey (kidding) ahead or that he got the invite for top international us teams, made the teams although played very minor part? Yet some make it sound like he is the pro in the garage league padding stats.

As far as second bolded i'm sure you got carried away cause we know lots of players take the BCHL then NCAA road. They could be born 2 or 8 months before or after i'll give you that. There is a cup every year so no rush.

OBrien was youngest player on Providence this season. Second closest was 2 months older. Using hockeydb numbers.

O'Brien has wheels, kid can fly - from all accounts was one of the fittest players at the combine as well - also stated by many ex NHLers like Amonte that his hockey IQ was extremely high, so pretty much every makings of a top pick player which is what happend. Flyers were not alone in this, other teams right behind them were ready to select the kid.

Providence is a wake up call for many kids, I personally did not like his college choice as that is a program that 100% plays their veteran/upper class men over drafted younger players. Speculation on my part, but O'Brien likely gained a bit of an ego as an almost top 15 pick and didn't like the fact that he had to earn his way which means not much ice time in his first year and a half. I can't necessarily blame him, but whoever advised him about Providence should have told him that the road will be tough there regardless of name recognition.

What he does from here on out is 100% on him - this is his ship now, he controls the path..can't make any excuses now if he fails.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Real question is why isnt he playing in the USHL instead of the BCHL....

USHL is a weird league, where if you don’t pay your dues via the combine/spring tourneys, they won’t really use you during a cup of coffee a la Morgan Barron. Top end talent really isn’t there beyond NTDP and imports. Also, the travel is a bit rough.

For the BCHL, only rough trip is over the mountain from inland to coastal. Better concentration of talent, drinking age is 19.

 

[OldScool]

O'Brien has wheels, kid can fly - from all accounts was one of the fittest players at the combine as well - also stated by many ex NHLers like Amonte that his hockey IQ was extremely high, so pretty much every makings of a top pick player which is what happend. Flyers were not alone in this, other teams right behind them were ready to select the kid.

Providence is a wake up call for many kids, I personally did not like his college choice as that is a program that 100% plays their veteran/upper class men over drafted younger players. Speculation on my part, but O'Brien likely gained a bit of an ego as an almost top 15 pick and didn't like the fact that he had to earn his way which means not much ice time in his first year and a half. I can't necessarily blame him, but whoever advised him about Providence should have told him that the road will be tough there regardless of name recognition.

What he does from here on out is 100% on him - this is his ship now, he controls the path..can't make any excuses now if he fails.

Spot on. Leaman is probably one of the top 3 coaches in NCAA hockey and usually has a veteran, grinding, defense responsibility structured style that is built with older players to win now and to compete with the young studs at BC/BU. OBrien is a faster, creative forward which doesnt jive with the type of players Providence covets. Of course Providence would take him but it never seemed like a fit of styles from the beginning.

 

[MSSLYNX]

O'Brien has wheels, kid can fly - from all accounts was one of the fittest players at the combine as well - also stated by many ex NHLers like Amonte that his hockey IQ was extremely high, so pretty much every makings of a top pick player which is what happend. Flyers were not alone in this, other teams right behind them were ready to select the kid.

Providence is a wake up call for many kids, I personally did not like his college choice as that is a program that 100% plays their veteran/upper class men over drafted younger players. Speculation on my part, but O'Brien likely gained a bit of an ego as an almost top 15 pick and didn't like the fact that he had to earn his way which means not much ice time in his first year and a half. I can't necessarily blame him, but whoever advised him about Providence should have told him that the road will be tough there regardless of name recognition.

What he does from here on out is 100% on him - this is his ship now, he controls the path..can't make any excuses now if he fails.

Poor Jay is never in good age group! Plays against kids then against men. Hopefully all the scouts who were high on him are (edit: are not) out of a job after this surprising thread. Thanks for input about specific colleges situations.

 

[OldScool]

USHL is a weird league, where if you don’t pay your dues via the combine/spring tourneys, they won’t really use you during a cup of coffee a la Morgan Barron. Top end talent really isn’t there beyond NTDP and imports. Also, the travel is a bit rough.

For the BCHL, only rough trip is over the mountain from inland to coastal. Better concentration of talent, drinking age is 19.

I beg to differ there will probably be 15 or so kids (NTDP and USHL) players picked really high this draft. Brinks, Afanasyev, Mastrosimone, etc. Talent is still much better than the BCHL.

 

[BondraTime]

True. Now i learned than we must separate the good 99 from the bad ones. Didnt know that one. Its fine.

But how come there are many articles available that comment on OBrien's talent while playing with people older like Tkachuk who is a full 2 months of developmental hockey (kidding) ahead or that he got the invite for top international us teams, made the teams although played very minor part? Yet some make it sound like he is the pro in the garage league padding stats.

As far as second bolded i'm sure you got carried away cause we know lots of players take the BCHL then NCAA road. They could be born 2 or 8 months before or after i'll give you that. There is a cup every year so no rush.

OBrien was youngest player on Providence this season. Second closest was 2 months older. Using hockeydb numbers.

90+% of guys who make the NHL, let alone impact, who play in the BCHL are gone after their 17/18 year old season. The lone example of 20 year old since 2000 is Bozak. O'Brien is in uncharted territory.

I'm not saying legit NHL guys dont come from the BCHL, I've been an advocate of drafting from that league on the team I cheer for's board. I'm saying that legit NHL drafted prospects don't play in the BCHL at 19, let alone 20. That's literally unheard of, he's the first to do it.

 

[OldScool]

Poor Jay is never in good age group! Plays against kids then against men. Hopefully all the scouts who were high on him are (edit: are not) out of a job after this surprising thread. Thanks for input about specific colleges situations.

Not kidding - I think the scouts and GM that picked him are out of their jobs.

 

[Hockeypete49]

So I guess you are all writing this kid out now right?

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

I beg to differ there will probably be 15 or so kids (NTDP and USHL) players picked really high this draft. Brinks, Afanasyev, Mastrosimone, etc. Talent is still much better than the BCHL.

RIF

Three top 60 picks that aren’t NTDP or an import does not make for a top end league.

 

[4Twenty]

I beg to differ there will probably be 15 or so kids (NTDP and USHL) players picked really high this draft. Brinks, Afanasyev, Mastrosimone, etc. Talent is still much better than the BCHL.

USHL is totally inflated by the NTDP teams, its very similar in quality to the BCHL.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

You forgot CHL
And might not make it in BCHL

But trending on HF.

Guy was playing prep school in 2017-18, like Mark Jankowski drafted 21st in 2012 out of Stanstead prep school. Went on to play 4 seasons in NCAA (Providence as well) , 1 AHL (killed it btw), now will start 3rd season NHL.

Next 2018 draftee from US HS was Jordan Harris, 3rd rounder for Mtl. Didnt get an invite for big USDP team or World tourney as per Elite prospect site. Nothing special, nothing god awful first season NCAA.
edit: Harris maybe not American, didnt check before

Had Harris gone to the BCHL, I don't think anyone would care given that he's a 3rd rounder.

 

[OldScool]

So I guess you are all writing this kid out now right?

Not at all. Just a hiccup this season.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

ah ok... You care a lot about the fact he was a 1st rounder. Me not that much. Not because of him, but because they drafted safely and seemed to have hit 5 picks earlier.

In 3-4 yrs who cares if the new player was a 1st or a 2nd (JOB was 2nd rounder material)??

But i get your point: he is far far behind for a 1st rounder. Agree.

He's far far behind for a 7th rounder.

So I guess you are all writing this kid out now right?

Yeah... it's the most reasonable thing to do. He isn't worth the 2023 2nd the Flyers would receive for not signing him.

 

[OldScool]

USHL is totally inflated by the NTDP teams, its very similar in quality to the BCHL.

I guess we agree to disagree.

Last year NHL Draft:
57 USHL players
7 BCHL

Not close.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Spot on. Leaman is probably one of the top 3 coaches in NCAA hockey and usually has a veteran, grinding, defense responsibility structured style that is built with older players to win now and to compete with the young studs at BC/BU. OBrien is a faster, creative forward which doesnt jive with the type of players Providence covets. Of course Providence would take him but it never seemed like a fit of styles from the beginning.

How about Boston U because today on twitter Sam Chiraldi talked about BU being already settled as next stop.