C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) IV

[JetsFan815]

I think Laine is getting bonus points for doing interviews on the floor, having great sound bites and being the charming foreigner who makes things sound funnier because he has an accent. Yeah he's played great hockey too, but he's a very likeable guy, and non-hockey reasons have bumped up his hype.

 

[FinRanger]

Everything because of Matthews?

I would like to take a little bit closer look on Matthews` game based on stats and few observations. People keep saying that the USA team is so bad and Matthews has carried this team to semifinals. As a forward carrying means that you score important goals and are by far the most important player in getting in those important points. Yes defensive game is also important but to use word carry when it comes to forward, you have to contribute offensively also.

MATTHEWS

USA 1 – 5 CAN Matthews gets no points but played solid compared to how bad the whole team was in this. Obviously no carrying here. TOI 16:59

BLR 3 – 6 USA USA takes 3 – 0 lead and Matthews has an assist on the second goal. Then Belarus scores 1 – 3 and gets a little bit more hope. Then USA scores 4 – 1 and game over. Belarus stops trying so hard. Matthews scores 5 – 1 and then Belarus score 5 – 2 in the end of second, Belarus scores 5 – 3 in the third and then Matthews scores 6 – 3 in the third. Great game from Matthews but not exactly carrying when game was basically over when Matthews scored his goals but great game from Matthews. TOI 19:30

FIN 3 – 2 USA Matthews plays a good game. Has one assist when takes the puck away from Laine. Laine said he was a bit confused in that situation cause there was a whistle but play just kept going. All in all Matthews played better than Laine in that game. No carrying for Matthews cause no points for USA. TOI 19:09

USA 4 – 0 FRA Matthews has an assist on the second goal. No carrying here. 10 players played more than Matthews. AM +/- = 1, TOI 15:28

USA 5 – 1 HUN No points for Matthews in this. TOI 16:36and +/- = 0.

GER 3 – 2 USA USA loses to Germany while dominating the game in shots on goal. Matthews scores the second goal for USA in the second period on powerplay. Tough loss for USA. USA loses so no carrying for Matthews in the sense that USA did not get points that would help them to get to quarterfinals. Matthews plays the second most for USA team. TOI 19:23

USA 2 – 3 ot SVK This was the most important game for USA at this point. USA managed to get the game to OT and they made it to quarterfinals. SVK was very close at tieing the game. +/- = 1 TOI 16:17. 8 players had more ice time than Matthews in USA team. No carrying here.

QF CZE 1 – 2 so USA Matthews scores the only goal in regulation and the shootout winner. Very good game from Matthews. 6 players play more than Matthews. Matthews has the second highest ice time from forwards. Obviously carrying! TOI 20:28

And a quick look on Laine`s stats just for the sake of it:

LAINE

FIN 6 – 2 BLR Laine scores the first goal of team Finland in the tournament after hard first period. Then he scores 3 – 1 on the powerplay. Assits 4 – 1 goal also. Game over. Based on scores Laine carried his team. TOI 13:31

FIN 5 – 1 GER Laine scores first goal of the game. Assits second. FIN leads 2-0. Laine scores also the last goal of Finland. TOI 14:43

FIN 3 – 2 USA Not a good game for Laine. TOI 13:21

FIN 3 – 0 HUN Laine assist on the FIN last goal. TOI 18:56

FRA 1 – 3 FIN Laine assist on the winning goal and scores the 3-0 goal. Good game statswise. TOI 15:40

SVK 0 – 5 FIN Laine scores last goal of game. No carrying TOI 14:55

CAN 0 – 4 FIN Laine plays very solid and good game against tough opponent but no points. No carrying here. TOI 18:08

FIN 5 – 1 DEN Laine scores very important 3 – 1 goal at the end of second period. TOI 17:42

SUMMARY: So based on these stats IMO Matthews carried his team in one game which was the most important one. But to to say that the whole USA team is so bad and Matthews is only good is so wrong.. Matthews has played great overall game and scored points but stop downplaying team USA roster People should take it easy with the argument that Matthews has carried USA to semifinals.

Also people say that Matthews` linemates suck and Laine has very good linemates. Yes Laine has better linemates but he has played much less compared to Matthews as you can see above from the TOI. Also Vatrano, Larkin, Foligno ain`t no jokes either.

 

[kule41]

Anyone have the extended highlights of Matthews again Czech?

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

I like the analysis FinRanger but I can't help but think you're coming from a place of bias. Matthews has played with Vatrano/Schroeder/Maroon much, much more than he has with Foligno and Larkin, first off. Wonder why you didn't mention those other two. And simply ignoring the difference in their linemates and reasoning out that Auston playing about 2-2:30 more minutes per game makes up for it, is ridiculous.

Sorry, but the fact is that Matthews is leading that team in goals and points, has played a solid all around game, and the US are currently at the same position as the Finns are, in that both teams are currently in the semi-finals. Matthews has had much more of a responsibility to create his own chances that relying on others.

 

[Black hat blue eyes]

Huh.... Didn't realize Laine takes faceoffs .... Or plays against the other teams best players.... Or plays a great 200 ft game. Huh, I guess if Austin only had to play in the offensive zone you would think he carried his team more.

 

[FinRanger]

I like the analysis FinRanger but I can't help but think you're coming from a place of bias, maybe even borderline ridiculous bias. Saying Matthews has played with Vatrano/Schroeder/Maroon much, much more than he has with Foligno and Larkin, so you not mentioning Schroeder and Maroon is the first indication of bias in your analysis. Another is simply ignoring the difference in their linemates and reasoning out that Auston playing about 2-2:30 more minutes per game makes up for it.

Sorry, but the fact is that Matthews is leading that team in goals and points, has played a solid all around game, and the US are currently at the same position as the Finns are, in that both teams are currently in the semi-finals. Matthews has had much more of a responsibility to create his own chances that relying on others.

Yes you are right on that sense that I should have mentioned them but I just mentioned those players who I think are pretty good. Well ok I saw the first one against Canada and I remember that Maroon was pretty bad in that cause he was in the crease many times and the play got blown dead. I am not so familiar with Schroeder. Yes I have bias but I tried to be objective in this one.

 

[FinRanger]

Huh.... Didn't realize Laine takes faceoffs .... Or plays against the other teams best players.... Or plays a great 200 ft game. Huh, I guess if Austin only had to play in the offensive zone you would think he carried his team more.

That analysis is only based on stats. It might be far from the truth but at least gives some perspective.

 

[Liminality]

Huh.... Didn't realize Laine takes faceoffs .... Or plays against the other teams best players.... Or plays a great 200 ft game. Huh, I guess if Austin only had to play in the offensive zone you would think he carried his team more.

Not to mention it's now considered a detriment to be playing more than other players when comparing them. Matthews has to be thrust into that icetime because of the lack of talent on his team.

Won't anyone think of the p/60!!

I know a certain groups really love Laine who's their golden boy and all but his stat line isn't that much better than Matthews. Matthews has continued to show why he's considered better in other areas of the ice.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

That analysis is only based on stats. It might be far from the truth but at least gives some perspective.

Huh . A whole lot more to the game than just the score sheet.....The second bolded seems like a conflicting statement...

 

[FinRanger]

Huh . A whole lot more to the game than just the score sheet.....The second bolded seems like a conflicting statement...

Yes it tells you about how much they played and also tells you in which situation and game they scored. Scoring is a major factor for forward when it comes to carrying team to semifinals like some people here have said that Auston carried his team.

But it does not tell you how good some player have overally played. It is far from that. It is about carrying a team.

 

[snizzbone*]

Anyone have the extended highlights of Matthews again Czech?

HTTPS://streamable.com/qpnd

 

[JetsFan815]

Yes it tells you about how much they played and also tells you in which situation and game they scored. Scoring is a major factor for forward when it comes to carrying team to semifinals like some people here have said that Auston carried his team.

But it does not tell you how good some player have overally played. It is far from that. It is about carrying a team.

In FinRanger's defense, I will say this, the Relative Corsi numbers support his claim about "carrying the team". I posted this in the Jets forum a few days ago but didn't post it here as I thought some might take it to be "anti-Matthews" (eventhough it is not particularly flattering for Laine either). But it is probably relevent for this discussion:

Small sample caveats aside, Neither Laine nor Matthews putting up particularly great CorsiRel numbers, probably that's expected, them being so young in a pro tournament. Kyle Connor however tore it up in his 3 games. Numbers from the first 4 games (Connor only played 3)

Player|CF%|RelCorsi %
Alexander Barkov|64.8|0.7
Jussi Jokinen|64.4|1.0
Patrik Laine|59.5|-4.4
Sebastian Aho (draft + 1)|61.1|-2.6

Player|CF%|RelCorsi %
Frankie Vatrano|55.0|-0.2
Jordan Schroeder|53.0|-0.5
Auston Matthews|49.5|-5.3
Kyle Connor(draft + 1)|69.2|+9.7

 

[93LEAFS]

In FinRanger's defense, I will say this, the Relative Corsi numbers support his claim about "carrying the team". I posted this in the Jets forum a few days ago but didn't post it here as I thought some might take it to be "anti-Matthews" (eventhough it is not particularly flattering for Laine either). But it is probably relevent for this discussion:

Wasn't Connor on the 4th line and being sheltered. Some of that could be due to more sheltered zone starts.

 

[JetsFan815]

Wasn't Connor on the 4th line and being sheltered. Some of that could be due to more sheltered zone starts.

Lots of Caveats here with the small dataset. The 4th line actually had a even worse Rel Corsi (-9% for Motte and -13% for Compher) when I wrote that post, in Connor's case I think his numbers were helped by him spending some time on Dylan Larkin's line who is a Corsi god this tournament (+19%)


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