TSN: Button: Habs' offer sheet to Aho was 'laughable'

[Jim Bob]

Why would anyone pay way ABOVE market rate AND GIVE up anywhere between 2 to 4 first rounders for a single player?!?!?! I can't believe people are even talking about this as a thing.

Then don't sign another team's player to an offer sheet and hope that things drag out like Nylander in Toronto.

My whole point is that this offer sheet was more Montreal doing Carolina a favor in getting Aho signed well before camp than a solid attempt to pry Aho out of Carolina.

 

[Jim Bob]

It certainly wasn't laughable but I believe there was no doubt Hurricanes were gonna match. Even if offer was 10.5 they would have matched really. They have the room and Aho is trending to a good one. I mean a certain 1st over all player gets paid 11 plus next season and he isn't any better if at all then Aho.

If there was no doubt that Carolina would match it, then it was a laughable attempt to pry Aho out of Carolina.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I just didn't like it because it let Carolina off the hook to an extent. Aho is arguably worth more than that, but he'd have to fight tooth and nail to get it out of Carolina. So MTL comes in, offer sheets are rare, and so of course Aho signs the first one that comes his way- it gets him to UFA, the money is up front, he's not gonna pass up on that just to battle Carolina for another year for another $1 mil per season, especially when they'll have extra demands. I get why MTL did it, but I also think it just kinda took the pressure off Carolina. Of course they were gonna match, you just set the price reasonably low for them is all.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

The problem I have with Button's take is that Aho has an agent and Aho has to sign the offersheet.

That offer is on Aho IMO not Montreal.

 

[Baccus]

People whine and complain about OS's never happening. Then one happens after 6 years FINALLY, and people STILL complain. Bergevin deserves some credit for actually trying something. If it was such an easy match as the Hurricanes say, why didn't they offer it to Aho? It's clear he would have signed it. They were being cheap, got called on it, so now they're saving face. Button is a Buffoon. There's a reason he, like Pierre McGuire, never had much of an NHL management career. They're both blowhards living off of a short lived NHL job. It's easy for them to point fingers when they're hiding(or, being forced to hide) behind desks in the media. They don't know ****. Hell, I don't know **** and I know more than them. (Don't give me that trivia BS Pierre spews as being knowledge. This isn't NHL Jeopardy)

I don't think people are complaining that an offer sheet happened, it's just surprising that the attempt seemed to totally hinge on the belief that a Billionaire owner of a team that finally just had some playoff success and new found fan enthusiasm wouldn't front the money on the signing bonus. On top of which they chose to limit the yearly AAV to a compensation level that would be totally unacceptable to the Canes.

It was just the start of Aho's RFA, they had him under team control and would be foolish if they weren't trying to get him signed to a longer term deal or a bridge while keeping him RFA. The biggest downside of the offer sheet is that it walks him to UFA, and the Canes would have most likely preferred to do a 3-4 year deal with another RFA year to negotiate or a straight 8 year deal for max term.

They had already reportedly offered him a 8 year 7.5 AAV deal, as a starting point in negotiations, I'm not sure you can reasonable call that being cheap. It's all irrelevant now.

 

[joshjull]

Their function in the cba is exactly that but they need other managers to trigger it. Which probably explains why they’re so rare.

OS are almost completely useless because they’re intended use can’t be triggered by the player and they’re side use requires overpaying in cap space/real dollars and giving up assets.

I’m still going to disagree. The few times offersheets have been given out has been within a few days of a players contract expiring and they become a RFA (July 1st). Its hard to argue Aho’s situation was much of an impasse or near a hold out situation with a couple months until training camp. This time of year is very early days for negotiations between teams and their prominent RFAs. Sam’s situion last year was an impasse.

I would have agreed with you that OS were massive overpayments a few years ago and thus not worth bothering with. But 3 things have combined to change my thinking.......

1) Teams willing to spend big on 2nd contracts for big name RFAs coming off ELCs. Guys like McDavid, Eichel, Draisaitl, Mathews and even Aho’s deal. Marner will likely be joining this group as well.

2) Changes to the draft lottery which make it harder to land a top 3 pick as the last place team, let alone the top pick. Which makes the tanking path we took for a shot at guys like McDavid/Eichel heavily dependent on luck instead of a guaranteed top 2 pick.

3) Contract restrictions of the current CBA (7/8yrs) which has driven up the AAV on mid to longer term deals.


In an environment shaped by those conditions I don’t see an offersheet of 7yrs @ 11-13mil AAV to guys like Point or Aho as an overpayment contract. Its just at the high end for players like them. As for the 4 first rounders, I think it would be a stiff cost but worth it if you're a team desperately in need of a player like that. Or to put it another way, you would be paying those picks to guarantee landing a player of that caliber.

But thats at the highest end of things. I think Meier could have been poached from the Sharks with an offer sheet similar to the one Aho got. Even if you went up a bit to 9 or so. Landing a 22yr old coming off a 30 goal season who is emerging as a very good NHL goal scorer with contract in his prime years. That’s probably a better allocation of resources (even with picks lost) than throwing around money in free agency.

 

[JThorne]

I don't think people are complaining that an offer sheet happened, it's just surprising that the attempt seemed to totally hinge on the belief that a Billionaire owner of a team that finally just had some playoff success and new found fan enthusiasm wouldn't front the money on the signing bonus. On top of which they chose to limit the yearly AAV to a compensation level that would be totally unacceptable to the Canes.

It was just the start of Aho's RFA, they had him under team control and would be foolish if they weren't trying to get him signed to a longer term deal or a bridge while keeping him RFA. The biggest downside of the offer sheet is that it walks him to UFA, and the Canes would have most likely preferred to do a 3-4 year deal with another RFA year to negotiate or a straight 8 year deal for max term.

They had already reportedly offered him a 8 year 7.5 AAV deal, as a starting point in negotiations, I'm not sure you can reasonable call that being cheap. It's all irrelevant now.

Exactly! It has a downside. Therefore, it isn't horrendous like people are saying. Montreal was willing to only go 5 years. I think that was their major gamble. This isn't the terrible offer everyone is making it out to be. For me, it wasn't about the dollar value. It was about whether the Hurricanes actually valued their player or wanted to be cheap. All appearances showed they wanted to be as cheap as possible until Montreal came in.

 

[Baccus]

Exactly! It has a downside. Therefore, it isn't horrendous like people are saying. Montreal was willing to only go 5 years. I think that was their major gamble. This isn't the terrible offer everyone is making it out to be. For me, it wasn't about the dollar value. It was about whether the Hurricanes actually valued their player or wanted to be cheap. All appearances showed they wanted to be as cheap as possible until Montreal came in.

Well, the UFA part is a downside for Montreal as well. Nobody knows where Aho will go in 5 years, but the 5 year term is probably most of the incentive for Aho to actually sign the OS.

I would argue that every team tries to be as cheap as possible with their players. Suppressing player cost through reduced leverage is the entire point of RFA.

The problem is that there was no reason for the Hurricanes not to match, only a far flung hope that they couldn't come up with the front loaded signing bonuses. That's the issue.

 

[82Ninety42011]

If there was no doubt that Carolina would match it, then it was a laughable attempt to pry Aho out of Carolina.

Not sure what you make per year but 21 million paid out in first 12 months isn't laughable to me.

 

[Sabre the Win]

It might be laughable but it's even more laughable at the other 30 team general managers who are too much of cowards to utilize a legal tool to get good players.

At least Bergevan has the cahonies to actually try it.

 

[Buffaloed]

The offersheet could become a tool more for the agents and player to get a contract they want from their current team.

It could work the other way. The NHL would love to show the OS is a viable process in upcoming CBA negotiations.

Hypothetical Waddell - Bergevin conversation

Waddell: We just made Aho a lowball offer. Can you do us a favor and try to sign him to an offer sheet no greater than $8.5 AAV?
Bergevin: Sure but why not just negotiate with his agent?
Waddell: His agent is a ****** and will demand way more. We have to make it look like he won.
Bergevin: consider it done

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I’m still going to disagree. The few times offersheets have been given out has been within a few days of a players contract expiring and they become a RFA (July 1st). Its hard to argue Aho’s situation was much of an impasse or near a hold out situation with a couple months until training camp. This time of year is very early days for negotiations between teams and their prominent RFAs. Sam’s situion last year was an impasse.

I would have agreed with you that OS were massive overpayments a few years ago and thus not worth bothering with. But 3 things have combined to change my thinking.......

1) Teams willing to spend big on 2nd contracts for big name RFAs coming off ELCs. Guys like McDavid, Eichel, Draisaitl, Mathews and even Aho’s deal. Marner will likely be joining this group as well.

2) Changes to the draft lottery which make it harder to land a top 3 pick as the last place team, let alone the top pick. Which makes the tanking path we took for a shot at guys like McDavid/Eichel heavily dependent on luck instead of a guaranteed top 2 pick.

3) Contract restrictions of the current CBA (7/8yrs) which has driven up the AAV on mid to longer term deals.


In an environment shaped by those conditions I don’t see an offersheet of 7yrs @ 11-13mil AAV to guys like Point or Aho as an overpayment contract. Its just at the high end for players like them. As for the 4 first rounders, I think it would be a stiff cost but worth it if you're a team desperately in need of a player like that. Or to put it another way, you would be paying those picks to guarantee landing a player of that caliber.

But thats at the highest end of things. I think Meier could have been poached from the Sharks with an offer sheet similar to the one Aho got. Even if you went up a bit to 9 or so. Landing a 22yr old coming off a 30 goal season who is emerging as a very good NHL goal scorer with contract in his prime years. That’s probably a better allocation of resources (even with picks lost) than throwing around money in free agency.

This isn’t speculation. It’s cba commentary going back to 1986 when the first one happened. It’s only been reinforced by the salary cap era which ended the outright poaching of players.

 

[joshjull]

This isn’t speculation. It’s cba commentary going back to 1986 when the first one happened. It’s only been reinforced by the salary cap era which ended the outright poaching of players.

The salary cap era did the exact opposite of reinforcing the idea that offersheets were a mechanism for players to use in an impasse.

The offersheet world pre salary cap era was the Wild West. Where compensation wasn’t set in stone and teams had to come to an agreement on compensation. When they couldn’t agree an arbitrator got involved to determine it. The most famous example is the Devils being awarded Scott Stevens as compensation for the Blues landing Shanahan with an offersheet. They were in a way forced trades back then. Teams were also able to do other things that aren’t allowed any more. Like trade the matching rights.

The last two CBAs removed the Wild West nature of offersheets. What is needed to make them and the exact compensation is set in stone now. Once one is made and accepted that player is going to play for 1 of 2 teams the coming season.

The last two CBAs crippled the idea that offersheets were a tool for players to use in an impasse.

 

[CrazyWayne]

It could work the other way. The NHL would love to show the OS is a viable process in upcoming CBA negotiations.

Hypothetical Waddell - Bergevin conversation

Waddell: We just made Aho a lowball offer. Can you do us a favor and try to sign him to an offer sheet no greater than $8.5 AAV?
Bergevin: Sure but why not just negotiate with his agent?
Waddell: His agent is a ****** and will demand way more. We have to make it look like he won.
Bergevin: consider it done

With the cba ending soon could definitely see the league telling teams to make more offers to show that the current system is working just fine.

Pretty sure the players Association has argued that all the non offers to rfa's has been due to collusion between the owners

 

[Husko]

I don't see how anyone can say the offer sheet was "doing Carolina a favor."

If this contract was something close to what they were offering in the first place, I'm sure he would've just signed it with them.

If there was a bigger offer sheet out there from someone else, I'm sure Aho's agent would have sought it out.

I think many often forget that offer sheets are bargained for agreements just like any other contract negotiation.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The salary cap era did the exact opposite of reinforcing the idea that offersheets were a mechanism for players to use in an impasse.

The offersheet world pre salary cap era was the Wild West. Where compensation wasn’t set in stone and teams had to come to an agreement on compensation. When they couldn’t agree an arbitrator got involved to determine it. The most famous example is the Devils being awarded Scott Stevens as compensation for the Blues landing Shanahan with an offersheet. They were in a way forced trades back then. Teams were also able to do other things that aren’t allowed any more. Like trade the matching rights.

The last two CBAs removed the Wild West nature of offersheets. What is needed to make them and the exact compensation is set in stone now. Once one is made and accepted that player is going to play for 1 of 2 teams the coming season.

The last two CBAs crippled the idea that offersheets were a tool for players to use in an impasse.

There’s a number of anti-trust cases going back to the WHL. You can interpret it however you want, that’s how it’s explained by the people who wrote it in court documents. It was a dodge clause to get around the Sherman Act.

Shock that it’s a poor way to do it when the people who wrote it are the people who stand to lose the most from it. It’s almost like the NHL was involved.