Butch's Top Prospects

[The Crypto Guy]

2-Alexis Lafrenière

: He will be dominant this season, he will be a guy that you want on your team in the Stanley cup finals but I think he is close to his ceiling while Sutztle is far away from it.

Lol wut?

 

[MuckOG]

17-Marco Rossi

: I don't think he have the capacities of controlling the game. I think he will end up of a MEH player in the offensive zone. Good skater, good passing ability and good shoot too but nothing extraordinary but he his reliable and play a good 200 FT Game. Don't have a big physic impact too. Good player but not exciting or great player. I think he is close to his ceiling

I wonder if the OP formulated this opinion on Rossi before or after his WJC performance?

 

[Butch26]

Like the list except you're missing Ryan Merkely. Obviously just an oversight or maybe you left him off to make it more fair for the other players since he's so clearly number 1. One guy that I like a lot is Lapierre. I think Caps got a steal there and if he can put it all together and recover from his injuries he will be insanely good.

I had go on a walk after posting this and I thought about player that I forgot and K'Andre miller and Merkley. I had Merkley in my top 8 at his draft class, I was loving his footwork, and how he generate offense in the OZP. I like player like Sam Girard and Merkley who are not afraid to beat the winger with their skills often to just shot it to the net.

But I'm okay with the fact that I forgot him because it's to hard to predict his future because of his mindset. But skills for skills, top 10

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Fantastic list, as always.

 

[Xirik]

I am a Devils fan. I had Quinn way above Holtz (3rd vs 11th) and still do. Since watching Holtz a bit more, I probably would bump him up slightly in my rankings to 9th, but I absolutely stand by my position on Quinn. I was upset about not picking Quinn and still am, but still think Holtz is a great prospect to have. If you want my explanation, here goes.

Quinn is a much more versatile shooter than Holtz. Sure, Holtz is able to get better velocity on his shots, and is probably a better set shooter than Quinn. But Quinn also is a lot better in a lot of areas of shooting. His release is phenomenal, it is very deceptive and quick. He can get his shot off almost anywhere, he is a great shooter in transition. Those are valuable skills to have. You can have a great shot, but if you are too slow to get it off, defenders are going to block it. Quinn will never have that problem because his shot gets off ridiculously fast. Holtz's passing has impressed me, but Quinn's is criminally underrated. That, combined with his hands, are by far in my opinion the most underrated aspects of any player in the entire 2020 NHL draft. His stickhandling is absolutely elite. It is ridiculous how little it is talked about. He is easily able to slip in and out of traffic and use his hands to beat goaltenders and finish in tight. Holtz doesn't have this same ability. His passing is impressive, but I'd really want him to improve his hands. Next, skating. Neither are amazing. But Quinn definitely appears much faster to me and has really solid edgework and is good at splitting defenders and maneuvering in tight spaces. Holtz looks a little sluggish at times, especially during the WJC. That is the main thing I want him to work on no doubt. Defensive ability is not even contestable. Quinn was a top 3 defensive player in the entire draft. It helped that he played on a stacked team, but who do you think was shutting down the other teams on the PK. It was Quinn. Overall a really impressive, mature defensive ability that you don't usually see out of guys his age. Holtz is just average in that regard, nothing special, but nothing terrible either.

So in general, Quinn is just so much better of an all around player than Holtz is. It is not even a contest. Holtz had Quinn beat in the shot department, but no where else. Quinn is the second most complete player in the entire 2020 NHL draft behind Laf. There are no glaring weaknesses to his game. No other prospect could say that in the 2020 draft other than Laf. Quinn was massively underrated because people would say "He played on an amazing team". And to that, I say "Who the f*** did you think made that team so amazing". He never played on the first line, he never played with the best linemates, the only time he played with Rossi was on the powerplay. The guy who assisted on most of his goals was Mitch Hoelscher. Before this season, the dude couldn't top 40 points, and that who was slapped on his hip the entire year. He, and Rossi, made his team great, both seperately.

Clearly we watched different WJC, Holtz Was doing magnificent passes as he was basically forced to become the lines Center because Eklund wasn't in the tournament and the C they put with him was playing way above his level. I suggest watching the Sweden vs Russia game.

Meanwhile Quinn was given easier minutes and was basically invisible except for a few moments.
-----

Now Cole Caufield at 13 is terrible, He's at his 2nd World Junior and is further along then many of the people on his team and the people he played against. He was also given a huge role for the team and he did nothing. Luckily he had his teamates to cover for him. He basically does exactly the same thing the OP criticized Holtz for but is ranked 13th.

After 30th the list get suspect as hell and it almost looks like he threw darts at the wall.

If Butch feels the need to criticize my biases ill criticise his. This list reads off like a guy who ranks players who he's seen in person higher then the ones he probably only watched sometimes on T.V.

Hope you get past these biases to become a better scout.

 

[BlackEye from Xhekaj]

I didn't want to comment because I appreciate the time you put into these and feel like it's far more effort I would put in to a prospect list (especially with such description at the beginning). However, putting Byfield at #12 I completely disagree with there. Byfield is fantastic on the zone entry, uses his body effectively to shield the puck, has very good vision on the ice and recently, developed a 2way game that he lacked.

Working with Roberts, you can see his strength, and working as the 3C in the WJC his defensive play was fantastic.

Where Byfield seems to get a lot of criticism vs someone like Stuetzle is in their different movements. Byfield has a longer stride, Stuetzle's legs are always moving (for better or worse - no one seems to comment on his turnovers or being out of position and ha I g to make up for it with those movements).

Byfield is a package that you don't see come along often, and I can't remember a #2 pick that's garnered so much negative criticism a few months after being drafted, before playing an NHL game, and after a handful of games in a short tournament where he was the youngest player on his team (being often compared to the captain of a small nation team who played 30mins a night in that short tournament).

So, it's not meant to be disrespectful on any regard, just a rebutle and a disagreement with your assessment.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Thanks for your list.

 

[Butch26]

Clearly we watched different WJC, Holtz Was doing magnificent passes as he was basically forced to become the lines Center because Eklund wasn't in the tournament and the C they put with him was playing way above his level. I suggest watching the Sweden vs Russia game.

Meanwhile Quinn was given easier minutes and was basically invisible except for a few moments.
-----

Now Cole Caufield at 13 is terrible, He's at his 2nd World Junior and is further along then many of the people on his team and the people he played against. He was also given a huge role for the team and he did nothing. Luckily he had his teamates to cover for him. He basically does exactly the same thing the OP criticized Holtz for but is ranked 13th.

After 30th the list get suspect as hell and it almost looks like he threw darts at the wall.

If Butch feels the need to criticize my biases ill criticise his. This list reads off like a guy who ranks players who he's seen in person higher then the ones he probably only watched sometimes on T.V.

Hope you get past these biases to become a better scout.

Was my top 6 at is draft
If u think that I'm biased because of MTL....I don't care haha

1. Jack Hughes
   
2. Kappo Kakko
   
3. Bowen Byram
   
4. Trevor Zegras
   
5. Dylan Cozens
   
6. Cole Caufield

 

[Butch26]

Thanks for the list, enjoyed reading it.

Feels like a bit much WJC bias but I guess it’s expected given the lack of league play this season.

Appreciate it.

 

[Butch26]

Always enjoy the work!

Thanks you!

 

[57special]

I watch a fair amount of the Badgers, and I like Holloway better than Caufield. Caufield's game really depends on him being fed the puck by his team mates, while he does little to feed them. That makes him somewhat successful as a college scorer, but I don't see him taking his game to the NHL. Holloway's speed and strength is evident in college, and will play in the NHL.
I also would take Lundell over all sorts of players you have listed higher, and certainly Caufield. He has that brain or hockey sense that you refer to.

Appreciate the list and your rationales, but do not agree with many of your choices.

 

[RememberTheName]

Clearly we watched different WJC, Holtz Was doing magnificent passes as he was basically forced to become the lines Center because Eklund wasn't in the tournament and the C they put with him was playing way above his level. I suggest watching the Sweden vs Russia game.

Meanwhile Quinn was given easier minutes and was basically invisible except for a few moments.
-----

Now Cole Caufield at 13 is terrible, He's at his 2nd World Junior and is further along then many of the people on his team and the people he played against. He was also given a huge role for the team and he did nothing. Luckily he had his teamates to cover for him. He basically does exactly the same thing the OP criticized Holtz for but is ranked 13th.

After 30th the list get suspect as hell and it almost looks like he threw darts at the wall.

If Butch feels the need to criticize my biases ill criticise his. This list reads off like a guy who ranks players who he's seen in person higher then the ones he probably only watched sometimes on T.V.

Hope you get past these biases to become a better scout.

I actually lazer watched Holtz the entire tournament. That's why I bumped him up from 11th to 9th (well, mainly because of his amazing SHL play). I thought he did a lot of things well that I really didn't expect. I also watched a lot of his SHL and saw some solid passing and all around offensive play. He didn't move up from 11 to 9 for no reason. I watched him and bumped him based off of my judgement. I mainly used the WJC to reaffirm the stuff I had seen from Holtz in the SHL

I didn't watch too much Quinn in the tournament, and honestly, I didn't care to. I knew he was in a position to get limited minutes + scoring opportunities, so he probably wouldn't play his best. In general, I don't like the WJC as an evaluative measure for drafted players. It's just a preference of mine. Thus, my opinion of Quinn is based solely off of what I saw from him last season, and that is how my opinion is formed.

You, though, seem to have based your entire opinions off of a 7 game tournament. In his draft year, Elias Pettersson had 1 assist in 6 games. Does that mean he sucks?

 

[RememberTheName]

As for the list, great work as always Butch. Love that you stick to your guns on your guys.

 

[Xirik]

I actually lazer watched Holtz the entire tournament. That's why I bumped him up from 11th to 9th (well, mainly because of his amazing SHL play). I thought he did a lot of things well that I really didn't expect. I also watched a lot of his SHL and saw some solid passing and all around offensive play. He didn't move up from 11 to 9 for no reason. I watched him and bumped him based off of my judgement. I mainly used the WJC to reaffirm the stuff I had seen from Holtz in the SHL

I didn't watch too much Quinn in the tournament, and honestly, I didn't care to. I knew he was in a position to get limited minutes + scoring opportunities, so he probably wouldn't play his best. In general, I don't like the WJC as an evaluative measure for drafted players. It's just a preference of mine. Thus, my opinion of Quinn is based solely off of what I saw from him last season, and that is how my opinion is formed.

You, though, seem to have based your entire opinions off of a 7 game tournament. In his draft year, Elias Pettersson had 1 assist in 6 games. Does that mean he sucks?

Pot calling the kettle black much? You only mentioned the world Jr when talking about Holtz. Thanks for admiting that you didn't watch the person you are saying is better then Holtz though. Provides a lot of clarity.

Edit-
I don't just use the WJC to evaluate however in a year with barely any hockey the times the players do get to play they have to show their improvement and their skills and while Holtz has shown that he is a more complete player during this time meanwhile Quinn showed why he was ranked the 2nd best RW in the draft.

 

[HanSolo]

Krebs doesn't even crack the top 50. Oookay.

 

[bsu]

Nice list.

 

[Go Wings]

This list is an absolute joke like every one of your lists. You biases are so clear from year to year they are comical. Despite what a player does or doesn't do you never rank then accordingly.

It starts right away with Lafreniere not being number 1. Sure some prospect on this might turn out better than Laf but there isn't a single prospect that is better than him at this point.

You have 5 defense prospects higher than Seider. You could make the arguement for Byram but not any of the others based on what Seider has done in the last year. Was amazing at the WJC, played well in the AHL as a 19 year and is playing amazing in the SHL.

I went back and saw what you had him ranked last year 78th on your list. A guy drafted 6th overall was ranked 78th. That ks ridiculous and there is ZERO justification for it.

Seider has some work to do on his offensive but his defensive game and physicality are second to none on this list. Even simple highlights would show you that.

 

[blindpass]

The rants are ridiculous. It is an opinion, you don't have to agree.

My list wouldn't be the same but still appreciate a thoughtful, well-informed opinion.

 

[bsu]

The rants are ridiculous. It is an opinion, you don't have to agree.

My list wouldn't be the same but still appreciate a thoughtful, well-informed opinion.

I was just going to type this, thanks.

 

[Butch26]

That was my list 3 year from now.
People tell me in this thread

- Makar not worth the 1st place
- People ask me if Kyrou sleep with my girlfriend
- People don't understand Suzuki 15 and Glass 43.
- People don't understand why I don't have Chlapik
- Gaudette is 61. Someone tell me that he is a minimum of top 20
- People challenge me at Thomas > Frost
- Somoene tell me that he have stop read the list with Chabot at #2
- Need more ''Josh Brook''

Ok I check this list 3 year after and the list is not perfect but not that bad. Makar is at the right place, Chabot Pettersson and Connor too. Jost? To high but I still believe in him that he could turn into a good two way center but way to high. His offensive potentiel his below what I tought

Kaprizov will be rocking the league and he deserve the spot. Never had been a fans or Puljujarvi but be patient with him. Tolvanen was a big mistake and Mittelsdtadt too. I still believe in their big asset but they have to turn around their career. Liljegren? too high. Heinskanen? I underestimate his skating ability at the time, they are more than elite. Necas at the good place, Andersson bad evaluation too. Fox-Suzuki-Strome good evaluation.

So you can have your opinion, and he certainly do bad ranking. And you know what? I do bad ranking when I follow what people say or the draft ranking. I put there Juolevi, Puljuj and Andersson because of their draft ranking and I never really like these player like I do with Quinton Byfield. I love Mittelstadt and Tolvanen that was bad scouting

1. Cale Makar
2. Thomas Chabot
3. Ellias Petterson
4. Kyle Connor
5. Tyson Jost
6. Kirill Kaprizov
7. Jesse Puljujarvi
8. Eeli Tolvanen
9. Casey Mittelstadt
10. Timothy Liljegren
11. Miro Heinskanen
12. Martin Necas
13. Lias Andersson
14. Adam Fox
15. Nick Suzuki
16. Dylan Strome
17. Klim Kostin
18. Oli Juolevi
19. Kristian Vesalainen
20. Janne Kuokkonen
21. Filip Chytil
22. Ryan Poehling
23. Kale Clague
24. Dante Fabbro
25. Tage Thompson
26. Alex Tuch
27. Luke Kunin
28. Robert Thomas
29. Phillipe Myers
30. Victor Mete
31. Cal Foote
32. Jordan Greenway
33. Erik Brannstrom
34. Juuso Valimaki
35. Jack Roslovic
36. Joel Eriksson-Ek
37. Logan Brown
38. Kailer Yammamoto
39. Alexander Nylander
40. Connor Timmins
41. Aleksi Heponiemi
42. Sam Steel
43. Cody Glass
44. Kieffer Bellows
45. Rasmus Andersson
46. Henri Jokiharju
47. Colin White
48. Owen Tippet
49. Gabriel Villardi
50. Michael Rasmussen

 

[Butch26]

This list is an absolute joke like every one of your lists. You biases are so clear from year to year they are comical. Despite what a player does or doesn't do you never rank then accordingly.

It starts right away with Lafreniere not being number 1. Sure some prospect on this might turn out better than Laf but there isn't a single prospect that is better than him at this point.

You have 5 defense prospects higher than Seider. You could make the arguement for Byram but not any of the others based on what Seider has done in the last year. Was amazing at the WJC, played well in the AHL as a 19 year and is playing amazing in the SHL.

I went back and saw what you had him ranked last year 78th on your list. A guy drafted 6th overall was ranked 78th. That ks ridiculous and there is ZERO justification for it.

Seider has some work to do on his offensive but his defensive game and physicality are second to none on this list. Even simple highlights would show you that.

Yeah I wasn't loved Seider particularly.
I have to say that some people is tough to see play, and I don't have the same viewing as a real scout or a fans of the team
I was not loving Seider because of little thing

- When he receive a D to D, I was taking it often Stand still, in place of using his weight shift to bring the puck with his weight and his skating
- On lose puck he don't do fake. Never edge fake or punch fake. He was more brutal on these situation
- He wasn't able to do very clear breakout behind the play
- His mobility west-east was ok at best

Yess I had the player too low. I'm agree now because of his D-play, his impressive physical play and his simple offensive game.
But don't get me wrong, if you check my list and compare with NHL draft... You will be disappointed

 

[MasterMatt25]

Jack quinn above Holtz. Time to put as much effort in this reply as the OP did making this list.

It sucks.

Before the draft many forums were doing that too

 

[Butch26]

Lol wut?

Explain that already. Skating posture

 

[Butch26]

Cupboard is stocked for up-and-coming Canucks - TSN.ca
The list of Craig Button in 2018

Pettersson
Necas
Tolvanen
Glass
Mittelsadt
Thomas
Heinskanen
Makar
Strome
Andersson
Kaprizov
Kyrou
Borgstrom
Heponiemi
Valimaki
Branstrom
Belloews

 

[RememberTheName]

That was my list 3 year from now.
People tell me in this thread

- Makar not worth the 1st place
- People ask me if Kyrou sleep with my girlfriend
- People don't understand Suzuki 15 and Glass 43.
- People don't understand why I don't have Chlapik
- Gaudette is 61. Someone tell me that he is a minimum of top 20
- People challenge me at Thomas > Frost
- Somoene tell me that he have stop read the list with Chabot at #2
- Need more ''Josh Brook''

Ok I check this list 3 year after and the list is not perfect but not that bad. Makar is at the right place, Chabot Pettersson and Connor too. Jost? To high but I still believe in him that he could turn into a good two way center but way to high. His offensive potentiel his below what I tought

Kaprizov will be rocking the league and he deserve the spot. Never had been a fans or Puljujarvi but be patient with him. Tolvanen was a big mistake and Mittelsdtadt too. I still believe in their big asset but they have to turn around their career. Liljegren? too high. Heinskanen? I underestimate his skating ability at the time, they are more than elite. Necas at the good place, Andersson bad evaluation too. Fox-Suzuki-Strome good evaluation.

So you can have your opinion, and he certainly do bad ranking. And you know what? I do bad ranking when I follow what people say or the draft ranking. I put there Juolevi, Puljuj and Andersson because of their draft ranking and I never really like these player like I do with Quinton Byfield. I love Mittelstadt and Tolvanen that was bad scouting

1. Cale Makar
2. Thomas Chabot
3. Ellias Petterson
4. Kyle Connor
5. Tyson Jost
6. Kirill Kaprizov
7. Jesse Puljujarvi
8. Eeli Tolvanen
9. Casey Mittelstadt
10. Timothy Liljegren
11. Miro Heinskanen
12. Martin Necas
13. Lias Andersson
14. Adam Fox
15. Nick Suzuki
16. Dylan Strome
17. Klim Kostin
18. Oli Juolevi
19. Kristian Vesalainen
20. Janne Kuokkonen
21. Filip Chytil
22. Ryan Poehling
23. Kale Clague
24. Dante Fabbro
25. Tage Thompson
26. Alex Tuch
27. Luke Kunin
28. Robert Thomas
29. Phillipe Myers
30. Victor Mete
31. Cal Foote
32. Jordan Greenway
33. Erik Brannstrom
34. Juuso Valimaki
35. Jack Roslovic
36. Joel Eriksson-Ek
37. Logan Brown
38. Kailer Yammamoto
39. Alexander Nylander
40. Connor Timmins
41. Aleksi Heponiemi
42. Sam Steel
43. Cody Glass
44. Kieffer Bellows
45. Rasmus Andersson
46. Henri Jokiharju
47. Colin White
48. Owen Tippet
49. Gabriel Villardi
50. Michael Rasmussen

Wow, this is overall a really solid, surprisingly accurate list from 3 years ago. Impressive with the Glass, Suzuki, and Makar predictions no doubt!!!