Burmi, Ehlers, Petan and Copp Vs Frolik, Stemp, Tlusty and Slater whose better?

[KingBogo]

From the end of last season to this season the Jets said goodbye to 4 forwards (Frolik, Stemp, Tlusty, Slater) and hello to 4 replacements (Burmi, Ehlers, Petan, Copp).

There has been lots of talk the Jets should have out bid Calgary for Frolik and signed Stempniak and/or Tlusty. Versus going with a youth movement with Ehlers, Petan and Copp and bringing back Burmi.

Did the Jets make the right choice?

I left out Thorburn and Peluso. Thorburn is now in his 9th season as a Jet and going into a 2nd year of a 3 year contract and is considered a "glue guy" so he wasn't part of the equation. Peluso is now in his 4th season as a Jet and has a "skill set" that appears to still be important to the organization and IMO would have only been replaced by someone who could replace that "skill set". Which I don't believe fits for any of the players that left the organization.

So are we better or worse with Burmi, Ehlers, Petan, Copp over Frolik, Stempniak, Tlusty, Slater?

Click to read more...

 

[Jets]

Frolik, Ehlers, Stempniak and Tlusty

 

[Jetabre]

Youth movement. A fair few said we might take a step back while we transition our youth in, and I'm ok with that if it's the case.

 

[Koonta]

I chose the option with Ehlers simply because of him. Ultimately I would like a combination of the remaining players (except Slater-his time was up) also Tlusty was kind of meh.

 

[Say What]

We're further ahead as an organization without them. The four departed players weren't going to be part of the long range plans of this team, IMO.

 

[EpicGingy]

Ehlers and the lack of Slater swings my vote over to his group A.

 

[surixon]

The only thing I would Change is keeping Stempnaik and playing Petan in the AHL. But I am fine with Ehlers over Frolik and have liked Stafford's contribution. Burmie has been fine on the third.

 

[KingBogo]

The only thing I would Change is keeping Stempnaik and playing Petan in the AHL. But I am fine with Ehlers over Frolik and have liked Stafford's contribution. Burmie has been fine on the third.

Given the benefit of hindsight I would tend to agree with you. If the plan was to give Petan his chance to make the jump he hasn't really been given an opportunity to succeed.

 

[winnipegger]

I would like to create my own option and vote for it instead:

Frolik, Ehlers, Petan, Stempniak

 

[StronGeer]

Top 6 dude: Frolik >= Ehlers (all things considered. Ehlers obviously has better offense but not as good defense yet)

Top 9 dude: Tlusty < Burmi

4th line dudes: Petan >= Stempniak, Copp > Slater

So overall, the youngins win!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Frolik, Ehlers, Stempniak and Tlusty

Frolik, Ehlers, Stempniak and Copp.

 

[KingBogo]

I would like to create my own option and vote for it instead:

Frolik, Ehlers, Petan, Stempniak

That's why I made the poll based on what is, not what I'd like to happen if only I could change history. We can all think of circumstances that we wished happened. I'm interested in if people think we are better or worse with the team we have now or the one that ended last season.

 

[ERYX]

Hindsight is always 20/20 and at this juncture, it may be looking like a bit of a mistake, or that we've downgraded ...

HOWEVER, I still voted for Burmi, Ehlers, Petan, and Copp because they are all significantly younger than the guys who have gone. While in the short term they might be a downgrade, I believe it is worth it to get them into the NHL now and start their upward progression. We don't know whether it will work yet, but if it does, the Jets stand to be better off in the long run and more importantly, have more players peaking or near their prime at the same time.

 

[garret9]

A) In the future
B) Now

Ehlers may very well be the best player and Slater the worst...although debatable... but I still take B now.

 

[sully1410]

Why be you when you can be new? Amirite guys?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Slater was awful last year.

 

[truck]

I don't think anybody said the Jets should have gone all in on the vets rather than add any youth.

Burmi was coming back regardless of the other moves.
The Frolik talk was about him being better than Stafford.

Everything else was about adding real depth players instead of Peluso and Thorburn because, Thor-Copp-Peluso, Thor-Petan-Peluso and even more so Thor-Cormier-Peluso are embarrassingly bad and easily avoidable.

The either / or concept here is weird.

A youth movement is fine. Adding NHL quality depth to make a kid earn a shot or as a backup plan if they fail or get hurt is in no way conflicted with a youth movement.

The Jets would be better with Frolik, Stemp amd Tlusty (or any other quality vet) than they are with Stafford, Thorburn and Peluso. That was always the discussion.

EDIT

Even the Stafford vs Frolik stuff is neither here nor there.

 

[mcpw]

Just for this season - the vets.

 

[truck]

Can we change the poll too:

Tlusty and Stempniak (or equivalent)

VS

Thorburn and Peluso

Because that is the real reason that people had their backs up.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't think anybody said the Jets should have gone all in on the vets rather than add any youth.

Burmi was coming back regardless of the other moves.
The Frolik talk was about him being better than Stafford.

Everything else was about adding real depth players instead of Peluso and Thorburn because, Thor-Copp-Peluso, Thor-Petan-Peluso and even more so Thor-Cormier-Peluso are embarrassingly bad and easily avoidable.

The either / or concept here is weird.

A youth movement is fine. Adding NHL quality depth to make a kid earn a shot or as a backup plan if they fail or get hurt is in no way conflicted with a youth movement.

The Jets would be better with Frolik, Stemp amd Tlusty (or any other quality vet) than they are with Stafford, Thorburn and Peluso. That was always the discussion.

How is asking a question on what is actually in place weird? Isn't that our current reality? Stemp and Tlusty are under contract with NJ. Frolik is signed long term in Calgary, and Slater is off in Europe. None of them are Jets, and we can not turn back the clock to make them Jets. Burmi, Ehlers, Petan and Copp are Jets and on the current roster. Are we better now (this season) with the youth movement or were we better with the 4 players we had at the end of last season?

 

[truck]

How is asking a question on what is actually in place weird? Isn't that our current reality? Stemp and Tlusty are under contract with NJ. Frolik is signed long term in Calgary, and Slater is off in Europe. None of them are Jets, and we can not turn back the clock to make them Jets. Burmi, Ehlers, Petan and Copp are Jets and on the current roster. Are we better now (this season) with the youth movement or were we better with the 4 players we had at the end of last season?

Using the concept of all or none is weird when pondering if the Jets made the right choice. Many choices occurred to bring us here.

 

[KingBogo]

Can we change the poll too:

Tlusty and Stempniak (or equivalent)

VS

Thorburn and Peluso

Because that is the real reason that people had their backs up.

Do you really think it was between Thorburn/Peluso and Stempniak/Tlusty for the same 2 roster spots? Thorburn and Peluso were on the roster no matter if Stemp and Tlusty were signed. Thorburn was going into the 2nd year of a 3 year contract and Peluso was signed early in the off season and we all know the skill set Peluso brings to the table. Stempniak himself said he was told by management they were going with youth. If kept Stemp and Tlusty would have just pushed back the youth movement. That is the question. Are the Jets better or worse making that decision?

Instead of asking if the Jets made the right choice I should have said did the Jets make the right decisions? Before asking if they are better or worse now. I'm mostly trying to go beyond should of, could of, would of and talk about the team in place.

 

[truck]

Do you really think it was between Thorburn/Peluso and Stempniak/Tlusty for the same 2 roster spots? Thorburn and Peluso were on the roster no matter if Stemp and Tlusty were signed. Thorburn was going into the 2nd year of a 3 year contract and Peluso was signed early in the off season and we all know the skill set Peluso brings to the table. Stempniak himself said he was told by management they were going with youth. If kept Stemp and Tlusty would have just pushed back the youth movement. That is the question. Are the Jets better or worse making that decision?

Instead of asking if the Jets made the right choice I should have said did the Jets make the right decisions? Before asking if they are better or worse now. I'm mostly trying to go beyond should of, could of, would of and talk about the team in place.

Nobody was upset about Ehlers potentially stealing a roster spot from Stempniak, people were upset that he'd only have to beat out Thorburn for that ice time. People were bothered by the idea that Thorburn would get top 9 shifts again (he has). People were bothered by the idea of Thor-Copp-Peluso and even more by Thor-Cormier-Peluso.

The youth movement was supposed to end those possibilities.

There has been lots of talk the Jets should have out bid Calgary for Frolik and signed Stempniak and/or Tlusty. Versus going with a youth movement with Ehlers, Petan and Copp and bringing back Burmi.

Did the Jets make the right choice?

This very plainly implies that they could have signed a vet OR moved to youth when doing both was a very possible (and probably a better) option.

I don't agree with the OR - especially when the OR is framed as an answer to a very different debate. That is all.

 

[KingBogo]

Nobody was upset about Ehlers potentially stealing a roster spot from Stempniak, people were upset that he'd only have to beat out Thorburn for that ice time. People were bothered by the idea that Thorburn would get top 9 shifts again (he has). People were bothered by the idea of Thor-Copp-Peluso and even more by Thor-Cormier-Peluso.

The youth movement was supposed to end those possibilities.



This very plainly implies that they could have signed a vet OR moved to youth when doing both was a very possible (and probably a better) option.

I don't agree with the OR - especially when the OR is framed as an answer to a very different debate. That is all.

I don't disagree the Jets could have done a combination of youth and depth players. But the historical record indicates they didn't. Earlier in the thread I acknowledged the Jets would probably have been better off with Stemp over Petan considering current usage. But they didn't go that route. I also acknowledge I probably could have worded the question better, but was just trying to throw in some background info. Nevertheless the original question remains are the Jets better or worse this season with Burmi, Ehlers, Petan and Copp Vs Frolik, Stempniak, Tlusty and Slater.

That is the reality of the situation. And if I could go back in time to make a different choice for the organization I sure wouldn't waste it on a 4th line depth player signing. Drafting Karlsson instead of Bogosian pops into mind. I just don't find a lot of value in rehashing should of's instead of what actually is.

 

[mcpw]

Do you really think it was between Thorburn/Peluso and Stempniak/Tlusty for the same 2 roster spots?

No, but it should have been.
That's the point.