Bure vs. Malkin

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Federov is clearly # 3 IMO. And I think in my mind we are talking NHL careers. All time Russians is a totally different argument.

I just don’t see how anyone compares to Malkin given his peak seasons and his trophy case besides Ovechkin.

I respect what Federov and Datsyuk brought defensively. I just think Malkin and Ovechkin tilted the ice in their prime in ways those two never did offensively. Not to even factor in the teams they were playing on in their peak seasons comparatively.

So you can't see Fedorov, with his insane peak season and 3 individual awards, comparing to Malkin's peak seasons and 6 awards? Ok fair. But then you think Malkin's 6 awards compares to OV's 18 awards and better peak seasons?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Ovechkin is the only NHL Russian that has a case against Malkin at this point.

Without Ovie winning the cup, not even close, but because Ovie did win,..its pretty close
but for me its still Malkin > Fedorov > Ovechkin (of those 3)

 

[bobholly39]

I don't know what you're looking at but if you're using Malkin's "healthy" seasons (70+ GP), OV was way better in 06/07, 07/08 & 08/09 (why he won landslide harts and lindsays). Malkin was way better in 11/12. 17/18 was close.

Also, you keep saying it's a "Sakic vs Forsberg" argument between OV vs Malkin.. Might want to double check that

Sakic vs Forsberg: 3 major individual awards each

Ovechkin vs Malkin: 18-6 individual awards

I feel like counting Rockets as a 'major award' is double dipping. Major award has always been most points, and goals are a component of that.

If the Ross is won with 100 points, and Player A scores 95 points but 30 goals, and player B scored 80 points but 50 goals/rocket - is it fair to say player B gets a major award but not player A, despite the apparent better season by player A?

I think Ovi is better than Malkin too - and it's fine to use his goal-scoring consistency as a big reason why among others - i just don't think Rockets = major awards.

 

[bobholly39]

Like I said. It’s a Forsberg vs Sakic argument. Malkin was injured the majority of his career, but the 3 seasons he was healthy vs Ovie he had the better season once and arguably twice. I think Ovechkin is the best Russian NHLer of all time, but Malkin vs Ovie is closer than Malkin vs anyone else IMO.

Ovechkin is having the much better career than Malkin. No real way around that. It's true that Malkin was often injured - but in no season where he was injured was he on pace to win anything significant. It's a stark contrast with Crosby, where he probably wins Ross/Hart in 2011, 2013, and maybe 2012 or 2008 with no injuries. You can't really say the same about Malkin in any year.

If your hypothetical is 'well - injuries affected his level of play in seasons, and without them he'd have done that much better'...I suppose. But all you're doing in that case is using a very wild hypothetical to raise Makin up much higher than he actually is.

To me Ovechkin is a top ~15 player of all-time, closing in on top 10.
Malkin is closer to 50th all time. He might be ~40th or so. I'd say his absolute ceiling is ~30th, but that seems like a long shot to reach.

I don't see any hypotheticals where Malkin goes up to top ~10-15 all time.

For what it's worth - Fedorov is closer to ~80-100 i'd say.
Both Bure and Datsyuk likely outside top 100 - and I might give Bure the egde. He could have done so much better with no injuries. But even in the most optimistic of projections for Bure with no injuries - i don't think he raises as high as Malkin has today (~40th or so)

 

[LongWayDown37]

This is definitely Malkin for me. However, if I had to choose one for my team, it would be awfully hard to not pick watching Bure every night. What a treat he was to watch. If you close your eyes and try to picture what great hockey is supposed to look like - Bure is going to be a guy that comes to mind.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Malkin. Bure was better at skating with the puck and had a better release but Malkin's basically better in every single way. For my money the best overall Russian player I've ever seen was Fedorov's peak.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Federov was never the best player in the league IMO and 100% never dominated a series let alone a playoff run like Malkin did in two cup runs. Malkin also has the argument that he was twice going against prime Ovechkin and Crosby which he actually out performed where as Federov never eclipsed the greats of his time while being second fiddle behind Yzerman.

The real question is has Malkin done more than Ovechkin. And that is the old Forsberg versus Sakic argument.

We could always start the poll and see how the ‘90s nostalgia goes over..

Ugh what? Definitely the best player in 94 and his competition was some dude named Gretzky.

 

[BCNate]

The answer has to be Malkin in terms of best career. I do think Bure was the better player, who by bad luck, injury and personal decisions did not play at prime levels for long. Keep in mind he had two season ending knee injuries in his prime, and extended hold out, and a lock out. I would have loved to see what he could have done if he played more than 700 games.

 

[Ben White]

Peak wise Bure

 

[filinski77]

Bure was great, no doubt. But Malkin pretty comfortably has had a more impressive career.

Malkin's Hart, 2 extra top-10 finishes, Pearson, 2 Rosses makes up for the 3 rockets Bure has.

	Ovechkin	Malkin	Bure
Hart	3	1	0
Top 10 Hart	9	4	2
Pearson/Lindsays	3	1	0
Ross	1	2	0
Point/gp Lead	3	1	0
Top 10 points	8	4	4
Rockets	9	0	3
Top 10 Goals	13	3	5
Cups	1	3	0
Smythe	1	1	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ovechkin still clearly ahead of Malkin for anyone that might want to say otherwise.

 

[Sasso09]

Voted Bure because he's my all time favorite player but this is Malkin.

 

[M88K]

I voted Malkin but can see a case for either.
Especially considering the era Bure played in and his limited games

 

[bobholly39]

Peak wise Bure

I think if you rank Bure all-time - and then if you rank Bure by peak only - he looks a lot better by peak. Great peak.

But Malkin has a ridiculously strong peak as well - both regular season and playoffs. I don't see this at all. Still Malkin for peak imo

 

[Bluesguru]

Bure is my favourite player of all time. But this is Malkin. He's just...done so much more, in his career.

Yeah, but suppose Bure had been a Red Wing, could that of changed things a bit?

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, but suppose Bure had been a Red Wing, could that of changed things a bit?

No.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ugh what? Definitely the best player in 94 and his competition was some dude named Gretzky.

I think Gretzky, Bure, Hasek and Vanbiesbrouck had a case in the regular season that year.

In 2012, nobody does. And I was including playoffs where I don’t think Feds was that impressive despite being above PPG.

 

[M88K]

I think Gretzky, Bure, Hasek and Vanbiesbrouck had a case in the regular season that year.

In 2012, nobody does. And I was including playoffs where I don’t think Feds was that impressive despite being above PPG.

Huh?

if you think any of them had a case over Fed in 94, than you'd have say Stamkos had a shot in 12, or Rinne. 73gp (72 Starts) and a .923

 

[Gurglesons]

Huh?

if you think any of them had a case over Fed in 94, than you'd have say Stamkos had a shot in 12, or Rinne. 73gp (72 Starts) and a .923

No.

Bure had 37 pts more than the next closest player on the Nucks and the difference between that Canucks team and the Wings with Yzerman and Coffey was much different IMO.

Gretzky won the Ross.

Hasek and Vanbiesbrouck’s teams were totally different than the Preds.

 

[M88K]

No.

Bure had 37 pts more than the next closest player on the Nucks and the difference between that Canucks team and the Wings with Yzerman and Coffey was much different IMO.

Gretzky won the Ross.

Hasek and Vanbiesbrouck’s teams were totally different than the Preds.

Fed had 120, Yzerman had 82(he missed a lot time with injury)
Ray Sheppard was 2nd place and had 93
Federov finished 27p ahead of 2nd place on his team(Sheppard), all the while playing great defensively

Florida allowed 233ga, Buffalo 218, Nashville(in 12) 210.
You think a goalie playing in all but 9games, and maintaining a .930 is because the team was so much better? Really?
That Predators team scored 237 goals, Florida(94) scored 233, and Buffalo(94) 282.
They(nsh 12) were led in scoring by Martin Erat with 58p, yes they had Suter and Weber but quite literally nothing else. Rinne is just as responsible for dragging that team to the PO as Hasek was in 94, more so really, because if he didn't play, Nashville lost (5w 8l with Lindback in net) buffalo had Fuhr going 13 and 12
Rinne face over 2000 shots, so did Smith in Phoenix both rocked a .930 that year as well. (more than both hasek and Bies)
Never mind that Smith then rocked a .944 through 16PO games, Rinne a .929 through 10 games while Vanbiesbrouck didn't even play a PO game, and Hasek a .944 in 7.

Gretzky won the Ross but went nowhere.
The Wings were the 11th worst defensive team in the NHL, (the nucks 10th by 1ga) The kings the 3rd worst allow 47goals more than the wings.
The Wings outscored their horrible goaltending and defense, and the reason they could do that was Federov carried that team.
Gretzky couldn't do that with Kurri, Robitallie and Blake as his supporting cast.

Yes Buffalo was largely carried by Hasek, and you could maybe make a case for him if you squint your eyes just right.
There is 0 justification for VanBiesbrouck, or Gretzky, and Bure couldn't hold a candle to what Fed did that season.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.