Confirmed with Link: [BUF/WSH] Halak'd: Halak & 3rd '15 for Neuvirth & Klesla

[Calicaps]

One other important factor here:

Halak is 28. His is what he is.
Holtby is 24. He still has developing to do. That doesn't guarantee he'll improve, but it means he could.

 

[Brian23]

I never said it was gamechanging. But to only compare use Holtby's (limited) games since the trade instead of his full season's work is stupid anyway, when we have a much bigger sample size to work with.

Yes, he has been horrid in the shootout. What are our shooters shooting in those same shootouts? Same thing with Grubuaer earlier in the season. Nobody is scoring for either of them in the SO. A couple of empty shootouts vs Ryan Miller and our fragile team suddenly can't score in them anymore... it's hilarious.

Because Halak hasn't played with the team the entire season so the best time to compare them is when both have played with the same team, in the same scenarios, with the same players.

The Capitals in December is completely different from the team now.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

One other important factor here:

Halak is 28. His is what he is.
Holtby is 24. He still has developing to do. That doesn't guarantee he'll improve, but it means he could.

I absolutely think he can recover. He's talented as hell. I'm more worried about his mental game honestly. Halak is what he is, a proven NHL #1 right now.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That was a joke...

Also, Caps shooters have gone 3-11 in the SO with Halak. The average is usually in the 30s, so that's a little below average. Not nearly as bad as Halak giving up 6 goals on 11 shots though. Halak definitely gets most of the blame there.

Anyway, there's clearly no convincing you three so I'll give up the ghost until next season. I think you're all just jealous of his hair though (that was also a joke, and is not the actual opinion of this poster).

I'm DEFINITELY jealous of the hair, just not enough to overlook the warts!

 

[txpd]

Holtby has a lot of moving parts. More than the typical goaltender. His basic presence in the net when on his game can be of overt attitude. In your faceness.

He aggressively plays the puck and while that has been both good and bad you have to expect that as a young player. It does set him apart from the typical.

A crisis of confidence effects him far more than a typical goaltender that is just trying to play the angles and read the play.

after all these years of relying on baby goalies plus Jose Theodore carrying some RS weight, I wonder what it would be like to have an actual established goalie in the net. They had Vokoun but that seemed like a mess from the word go.

Is Halak better and reliable than Theodore was?

 

[JenniferH]

Just a stat I read on Russian Machine Never Break's twitter:

124 goalies have faced 3000+ shots in the last 20 years. Among them, Holtby ranks 13th in Sv%.

When you add in our blue line in front of him (or often not in front of him).....

 

[FloridaCap]

One other important factor here:

Halak is 28. His is what he is.
Holtby is 24. He still has developing to do. That doesn't guarantee he'll improve, but it means he could.

Works both ways. He could be .911 Holtby or he could be .920 Holtby. Hell, he could be better than what we've seen from him.

But if he's .911 Holtby, he's a backup. Halak is a proven #1, which Holtby is not. At least not yet.

Is a proven 7/10 better than a guy who has a 50/50 shot at being either a 5/10 or an 8.5/10? I don't know. For me personally, I'll always take the experience in net.

 

[FloridaCap]

Just a stat I read on Russian Machine Never Break's twitter:


When you add in our blue line in front of him (or often not in front of him).....

I'm not so sure that shots allowed really have that big of a difference on a goalie's save percentage.

Ryan Miller has gone from BUF (ton of shots) to STL (very few shots) and his SV% has gone from .923 to .915.

Jaroslav Halak has gone from STL (very few shots) to WSH (ton of shots) and his SV% has gone from .917 to .923.

Now that's an admittedly small sample size, but it was the easiest one to bring up. Hence, why I'm not a huge fan of goalie stats in general. They all depend on so many factors... I pretty much just go by the eye test.

 

[JenniferH]

You're ignoring the fact that out of 124 goalies over the last 20 years, Holtby at 24, with a terrible defense in front of him, without ever being a full-on #1 starter, who just only recently played his 100th game, is at number 13 on that list. That's the key here, so clearly he's doing something right, but it's seemingly impossible for those who are down on Holtby to acknowledge that.

 

[g00n]

Works both ways. He could be .911 Holtby or he could be .920 Holtby. Hell, he could be better than what we've seen from him.

But if he's .911 Holtby, he's a backup. Halak is a proven #1, which Holtby is not. At least not yet.

Is a proven 7/10 better than a guy who has a 50/50 shot at being either a 5/10 or an 8.5/10? I don't know. For me personally, I'll always take the experience in net.

If you're ignoring stats and going by the eye test then why use stats like above? Why not admit that both goalies have made great saves and have let in softies (which both have admitted) and really aren't the difference for this team?

Should Theodore have been a backup with his .911 save% in 09-10? What about Hiller, Howard, Anderson, Pavelec and others this year?

You realize that Holtby's career save %, even with the bad games earlier this year, is .917 which is pretty good and solid starter material in the NHL and is THE SAME AS HALAK'S CAREER SAVE %? And Holtby's career playoff save % in 21 games is .931, compared to .923 for Halak in 23 games? Is that an experience advantage or not?

Again, I'm not trying to say one guy is clearly better than the other. I don't think it matters, and to me both are a hair better than Neuvirth. But if we're going to try and use stats to put one guy above the other then let's consider some evidence for both sides and dump the confirmation bias favoritism.

The next time one of these guys lets a goal in, pretend it's the other guy and analyze what your reaction would have been. Then do it on the next goal. And the next. And keep going.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

This argument will be dead soon enough (hopefully). Any GM worth his salt wouldn't pay big money for a non-elite goaltender, so Halak will likely be gone.

 

[Calicaps]

This argument will be dead soon enough (hopefully). Any GM worth his salt wouldn't pay big money for a non-elite goaltender, so Halak will likely be gone.

The great unknown. Please Ted, don't **** this up.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Since when is a $3.75 mil cap hit elite goaltender money? And who's to say what the market will be for starters in the summer? He might not have many options and the options he could have might well be very bad teams.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Since when is a $3.75 mil cap hit elite goaltender money? And who's to say what the market will be for starters in the summer? He might not have many options and the options he could have might well be very bad teams.

Its not elite goaltender money. Goalies are just way too fungible to invest ~$4M of cap space on an average one. You're likely to get similar performance from a J.S. Giguere-type at under half the price. If Halak wants sub $2M, bring him back, by all means.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Well that issue has been resolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...-louis-blues--former-teammates-182051471.html

Not interested in having such a player on the Caps next season!

 

[g00n]

Well that issue has been resolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...-louis-blues--former-teammates-182051471.html

Not interested in having such a player on the Caps next season!

And with that he should not be given another start this year.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Making bets like relying on a Giguere to be a reliable #1 is what gets coaches and GMs fired. Suggesting a sub-$2 mil salary is disingenuous. He's worth more than what Holtby makes today, sorry.

I'd sign Halak to a 2 year deal at his current cap hit without batting an eyelash. Hopefully in year 2, Holtby is ready to push him out of the starters role. I think Holtby needs a year to recover and get back on track myself. Would be great to have a vet to mentor him at his position and more importantly take away some of the soul crushing pressure Holtby had been crumbling under.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well that issue has been resolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...-louis-blues--former-teammates-182051471.html

Not interested in having such a player on the Caps next season!

That's bizarre. Never heard of such a request, but given the comment about Miller asking the same thing when facing the Sabres, seems like less of a big deal. Not ideal when your season is on the line that's for sure. Let's see how #70 handles the Kobayashi Maru tonight....

 

[txpd]

Giggy being "likely" to be as good as Halak is a big risk. A long shot it would say. So...likely is the wrong word.

As for not playing v st. Louis? are you kidding?

 

[BiPolar Caps]

For some reason Halak bowing out prompted me to see how Marty Erat has performed in Phoenix. 13 Games played a goal and an assist. Yep Caps were not using him correctly.

 

[Calicaps]

For some reason Halak bowing out prompted me to see how Marty Erat has performed in Phoenix. 13 Games played a goal and an assist. Yep Caps were not using him correctly.

You think? That's a .15 ppg rate. His rate with the Caps was about .42, tho almost all assists.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

i wouldnt extend halak hope the new GM doesnt either

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

For some reason Halak bowing out prompted me to see how Marty Erat has performed in Phoenix. 13 Games played a goal and an assist. Yep Caps were not using him correctly.

Still passes the "eye test" though.....

He's only getting just north of 14 mins a game, I'm guessing not getting much PP1/Top line chances. I think this guy finds himself in the KHL after next year if he's not careful.

 

[FloridaCap]

If you're ignoring stats and going by the eye test then why use stats like above? Why not admit that both goalies have made great saves and have let in softies (which both have admitted) and really aren't the difference for this team?

Should Theodore have been a backup with his .911 save% in 09-10? What about Hiller, Howard, Anderson, Pavelec and others this year?

You realize that Holtby's career save %, even with the bad games earlier this year, is .917 which is pretty good and solid starter material in the NHL and is THE SAME AS HALAK'S CAREER SAVE %? And Holtby's career playoff save % in 21 games is .931, compared to .923 for Halak in 23 games? Is that an experience advantage or not?

Again, I'm not trying to say one guy is clearly better than the other. I don't think it matters, and to me both are a hair better than Neuvirth. But if we're going to try and use stats to put one guy above the other then let's consider some evidence for both sides and dump the confirmation bias favoritism.

The next time one of these guys lets a goal in, pretend it's the other guy and analyze what your reaction would have been. Then do it on the next goal. And the next. And keep going.

Because you guys are obsessed with stats and don't let me speak my opinion without shooting it down unless I back it up with stats.

According to my "eye test", Holtby makes far more spectacular saves, both let in about the same amount of leaky goals, and Holtby is far, far worse with a screen in front of him. Considering a lot of the game is played with traffic in front (go figure, right? We certainly don't do that), I like Halak a bit more.

However, I don't know what the hell is up with him "backing out" of a start. wtf?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

However, I don't know what the hell is up with him "backing out" of a start. wtf?

Neuvirth did it all the time. We should be used to it.