Confirmed with Link: [BUF/NYI] Michal Neuvirth for Chad Johnson, 2016 3rd (conditional)

[Chad Thundercock]

A. We win the Stanley Cup but then find out that most of the players on the team were being given banned PEDs throughout the season.

Not to burst your bubble, but every athlete is probably taking PEDs.

 

[Butt Ox]

This pretty much sums up how I feel about this trade:

 

[vcv]

I said in my post that it wasn't meant to be an equivalent comparison. It's meant to figure out whether people have any limits to their "winning is everything" mentality. Once we establish the answer to that, we can drill down on what those limits are. Please read posts carefully before you jump into the personal attacks. I'm not an idiot.

Shouldn't the limits be obvious? The limits are whatever is within the rules. Why should people have to state otherwise? That should be the default.

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

29 other teams.

Most of which have ensured a top pick in their history though...so be careful when picking a new one.

Yes, and maybe that is whats wrong with this whole system? Promoting intentionally making the teams worse, to ensure to snare potentially good players.

It goes against the meaning of sports-competition. And it goes against my own morals and ethics, i have a hard time justifying it to myself, even though they might win some games in the end. I find it disrespectful to the players on the team, the coaches, the staff involved who works their ***** off, i found i disrespectful to the fans that pay big money to see a team that isn't the best because the GM intentionally is gutting it, because he wants that nr. 1 pick.

This is the last post on the topic i will post. But i just wanna throw out a bone, if winning is all that matters? Should the players start bending the rules on the ice, as long as they don't get penalised? Shall we totally disregard respect and honor because winning is all that matters?

Where goes the limit?

 

[boredmale]

I am surprised Buffalo made this deal, they did the Islanders a huge favor that might help us win a round or 2(or even the conference).

If I was the GM I would just take best non NY offer on the table over what they got, even if it was a 6th round pick

 

[Myllz]

I am surprised Buffalo made this deal, they did the Islanders a huge favor that might help us win a round or 2(or even the conference).

If I was the GM I would just take best non NY offer on the table over what they got, even if it was a 6th round pick

Why does Buffalo care what the Islanders do in the playoffs this year? Your pick is already off the table as a lottery pick, so what you guys do make little difference.

 

[boredmale]

Why does Buffalo care what the Islanders do in the playoffs this year? Your pick is already off the table as a lottery pick, so what you guys do make little difference.

Us making the Semifinals can be the difference of pick 20(although more like 22/23 realistically) or 27

 

[tsujimoto74]

I am surprised Buffalo made this deal, they did the Islanders a huge favor that might help us win a round or 2(or even the conference).

If I was the GM I would just take best non NY offer on the table over what they got, even if it was a 6th round pick

There may not have been any other suitors for Neuvirth, for all we know. Goalies are not usually the hottest commodities on the trade market. Plus, who cares? If the pick ends up being real late in the round, it's going to Winnipeg anyway.

 

[Myllz]

Us making the Semifinals can be the difference of pick 20 or 27

That pick not even be made by the Sabres. I wouldn't be surprised if it's traded.

 

[boredmale]

There may not have been any other suitors for Neuvirth, for all we know. Goalies are not usually the hottest commodities on the trade market. Plus, who cares? If the pick ends up being real late in the round, it's going to Winnipeg anyway.

Fair enough but if Both Blues and Islanders make semifinal that could hurt

 

[Myllz]

Fair enough but if Both Blues and Islanders make semifinal that could hurt

Blues pick is already gone.

 

[boredmale]

Blues pick is already gone.

It's the lower of both picks, if Islanders win the division or make the semifinals(assuming Blues don't make the semifinals as well) they pick later then the Blues.

 

[haseoke39]

I think the condition on this deal is the last thing we need to know today.

 

[Beerz]

Fair enough but if Both Blues and Islanders make semifinal that could hurt

Our pick is much more important at this point then what the Isles or Blues pick turns out to be

 

[Paxon]

I think the condition on this deal is the last thing we need to know today.

AFAIK the condition is that we get the better of the two 3rds NYI holds (theirs and Vancouver's)

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[ZeroPT*]

Yes, and maybe that is whats wrong with this whole system? Promoting intentionally making the teams worse, to ensure to snare potentially good players.

It goes against the meaning of sports-competition. And it goes against my own morals and ethics, i have a hard time justifying it to myself, even though they might win some games in the end. I find it disrespectful to the players on the team, the coaches, the staff involved who works their ***** off, i found i disrespectful to the fans that pay big money to see a team that isn't the best because the GM intentionally is gutting it, because he wants that nr. 1 pick.

This is the last post on the topic i will post. But i just wanna throw out a bone, if winning is all that matters? Should the players start bending the rules on the ice, as long as they don't get penalised? Shall we totally disregard respect and honor because winning is all that matters?

Where goes the limit?

The system is fine. Relegation wouldn't work and the class of the league were once in this situation. If you want to bring in relegation you'd have to bring in transfers and that would kill all parity.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

The system is fine. Relegation wouldn't work and the class of the league were once in this situation. If you want to bring in relegation you'd have to bring in transfers and that would kill all parity.

Now i'm breaking my own promises but hey, we all seems to be hypocrites on this board..

Anyway...i didn't say they should be relegation. Just a suspension, take away the pick from the teams that is outright trying to dismantling their own teams for the sake of getting the first draft-pick.

 

[Beerz]

Now i'm breaking my own promises but hey, we all seems to be hypocrites on this board..

Anyway...i didn't say they should be relegation. Just a suspension, take away the pick from the teams that is outright trying to dismantling their own teams for the sake of getting the first draft-pick.

I hope you remember that when you're cheering for this draft pick we end up getting.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Paxon]

Now i'm breaking my own promises but hey, we all seems to be hypocrites on this board..

Anyway...i didn't say they should be relegation. Just a suspension, take away the pick from the teams that is outright trying to dismantling their own teams for the sake of getting the first draft-pick.

So how do teams ever rebuild then? Who sits and judges when it's OK to trade a PENDING UFA? There'd be no more sellers, which means there'd be no more buyers, which weakens the strength of playoff teams.

 

[Montag DP]

How would you ever determine that a team is tanking? Murray could present a pretty solid case that he is not actively trying to lose if he had a decent lawyer. (And, by the way, I don't think that's his #1 priority in these deals, either. He's trying to get some return for UFAs.) It would be mayhem if the league decided to make those judgments itself and penalize teams for it.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Now i'm breaking my own promises but hey, we all seems to be hypocrites on this board..

Anyway...i didn't say they should be relegation. Just a suspension, take away the pick from the teams that is outright trying to dismantling their own teams for the sake of getting the first draft-pick.

okay and how are teams supposed to get better? Chicago didn't magically find Kane and Toews. Kings win 0 cups without Doughty. Pens are probably not in Pittsburgh without Sid and Geno.

How do teams build?

 

[Corto]

So how do teams ever rebuild then? Who sits and judges when it's OK to trade a PENDING UFA? There'd be no more sellers, which means there'd be no more buyers, which weakens the strength of playoff teams.

Honestly, I'd prefer all non-playoff teams to have the same number of balls in the pot.
Equal chance of drafting #1 and #14.

Losing should not be rewarded - yes, relegation isn't doable in NA pro leagues, but some kind of incentive has to be there for teams NOT to lose.

If you hold on to a bubble team, and you fail to make the playoffs (like the Sabres did for a good number of years), you shouldn't be punished by mid-picks by default while teams that intentionally try to be bad get rewarded with the best young player available.
A bubble team with a top pick may end up a contender next year, or in two years.

Yes, the shoe is on the other foot now, and yes, my team may end up with McDavid this summer, but the whole thing still tastes rather vile.

As for trades, I imagine you'd see less trades, but they'd all almost exclusively be hockey trades and trading players you know you won't be able to re-sign etc.
You'd see much less dumping players for picks etc.

The only real downside would be a risk of fans of a losing franchise starting to lose interest.
But then again, it's their own fault and they would have to become better through good drafting and good signing, instead of being gift-wrapped a potential franchise player.

...

Bottom line, the current system IS broken, the teams are just doing what is currently best in this broken system.

And sadly, it's not changing. Not in the NHL, not in any NA pro league.