Confirmed Trade: [BUF/NYI] Johnny Boychuk for future considerations

abo9

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Doesn’t this help NYI more than Buf? Why wouldn’t Buffalo weaponize their cap space and get paid to take on a cap dump?

because "weaponizing" the cap space is grossly overrated on HFboards.

you need a special set of circumstances to adequatly "weaponize" the space.

in this case, Buffalo was gonna be under the cap floor, which is illegal. Islanders graciously gave them a contract for FREE - they did not feel pressure to give anything to get rid of 1 year of Boychuk.

In Buf's case, its the perfect contract to bury, especially since Boychuk is technically retired.
 

mouser

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Had Adams, or another GM, offered to take the Boychuk contract last year, they might have gotten a second or third+. But why would the Isles make such a move now?

Boychuk has already received his last two signing bonus payments, the bulk of his remaining money, presumably from the Isles and whatever insurance covered. He only has $1.25 million remaining on his salary this season, with insurance covering perhaps as much as 80% of that, leaving around $250,000 due (maybe a bit more, but it is still a de minimis amount). It is nothing in terms of real money.

Meanwhile the Isles had their payroll inline for the season and around $2.2 million available in LTIR space for an add at the deadline. If they were going to attach an extra second rounder to a deal, they would probably give it to the team they are trading with for reinforcements, and ask them to retain and/or take back Uncle Leo or Hickey to offset any remaining salary cap imbalances.

This is a deal that helps both teams. The Isles get off LTIR, to accrue more space, and the Sabres can now essentially trade whoever they want, at the pittance of paying out maybe as low as $200,000 in real money. Adams just saved his owners a boatload of money, if they have a firesale, by not having to take on salary in return.

The Boychuk contract has significant value and there aren't many contracts like it available in trade. Lou knows it and sold accordingly.

Adams was smart not to haggle and potentially cost his owners a LOT of real money down the line, by potentially having to retain or take back significant salary. He had little leverage, since this is the best outcome for him and potentially making more trades, plus at least staying in the good graces of his employers.

With Boychuk gone the Isles can now choose to save $1.75m in cap space for 2022-23 by not rolling over the Chara, Parise and Greene performance bonuses.

They will also have considerably more trade deadline room without Boychuk.

There's absolutely incentive for the Isles to move Boychuk.
 
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SwedishFire

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No he couldn’t have. Adams wasn’t the one with leverage, Lou was. The Sabres badly needed to add cap space so they could get injured guys back in the lineup.

Krebs to the minors after the Eichel trade would have left the Sabres only about 12k over the lower limit. Once Mittelstadt returns (today or tomorrow), Murray gets sent down. Then Murray’s 775k cap hit goes away and the Sabres are 700k under the lower limit and not compliant with the cap. They also have Jokiharju returning in a few weeks and would lose the cap hit of his replacement.


Adding the 6mil cap hit from Boychuk allows our injured guys to return and gives flexibility for trades.
Lou needed this as well. So..
 

danteipp

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With Boychuk gone the Isles can now choose to save $1.75m in cap space for 2022-23 by not rolling over the Chara, Parise and Greene performance bonuses.

They will also have considerably more trade deadline room without Boychuk.

There's absolutely incentive for the Isles to move Boychuk.

Yes, I understand that and the potential benefit from the Isles side wasn't in question or what I was responding to. The Isles now have more cap space down the line, if they need it.

Just like it is quite clear that the Sabres also benefit immensely. They easily remain cap compliant, and create a buffer allowing them to make more trades and save their ownership significantly on immediate team payroll, all while paying out little in real money.

My response was towards people who foolishly believe Lou should have had to give up a second round pick or other quality futures, or that Adams undersold, in order to make a trade that clearly helps both teams and is already fair.

The fact is that the Isles did NOT have to make this trade now, nor were they dealing from a position of weakness. They opted to do the deal. That is the difference between being forced to pay a premium and simply making a fair deal.
 

danteipp

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Good post. I mentioned this in another thread, but Adams and Lou were part of an advisory group of NHL GM's that selected Team USA for the 2021 World Championships. They know each other. It's about building networks. GM's help each other out, it's not a biggie, but maybe down the line they will work on something bigger with this deal. You scratch my back, I will scratch yours. Isles could have kept Boychuck on LTIR, but Sabres also needed help to get some cushion to get higher on the cap floor. I think they helped each other out. And in the process Adams and Lou may be making more deals in the future. This is what good GM's do.

Well said. With on-ice performance being cyclical, you want to foster relationships where you can benefit as a seller one day, when your team is down, and then perhaps as a buyer in the future, when your team is on the rise.

There are a limited number of hockey GMs. So, if you can complete mutually-beneficial trades and get the GM on the other side to take your call and proposal over a rival, that only helps.

This isn't fantasy sports, where you might be looking to rip off your opponent and put one over on them in every deal. Because eventually your calls aren't going to be picked up.

And, who knows, you might be working for that GM in the future or they might be recommending you for a future job. But that only happens if they believe you are smart, qualified and reasonable.
 

danteipp

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60% of 1.1m (Johnny Boychuk) to cover 6m of the cap floor is fine business by Buffalo.

Darn right, the Pegulas lifestyle, apparently part of their underlying business strategy, got a nice bump with the recent trades and all of the real $$$ saved. They probably opened a very nice bottle of champagne to celebrate. While Lou sipped his Sanka with a smile on his face.
 
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brian_griffin

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Wow! As soon as Eichel was gone and Sabres had a floor gap Lou moved in quicker than a senior citizen with a coupon at an early bird special. This Cap space is going to help a lot at Trade deadline time
It's extremely likely Adams approached LouLam well in advance of any Eichel trade. Agree with the rest of your comment.

TBH I have nothing against tanking, but I think using "ghost" players shouldn't be allowed. There's a reason why there's a salary floor and I think players who don't play shouldn't be able to help teams reach the floor. To me it's a way to go around the rules and it should be considered as excessive tanking. Doesn't make me mad by any means, it's just my .02 on the subject and I believe it's a fair point, whether you agree or not.
You can of course believe that, but it's absolutely not the principal reason there is a salary floor. The salary floor has absolutely nothing to do with tanking. And if preventing tanking is a partial reason for the floor, it is at best a very distant second, if not much lower reason. The upper and lower cap values are set at 15% above and below, respectively, 50% of projected Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) (minus the cost of player's benefits). The lower cap value exists to ensure there is a minimum contribution by all teams to the 50% payment of total HRR to the players. If all teams generated the same 1/32 of HRR (they don't) and all teams spent to the midpoint (they don't), the players would divide their 50% share proportionate to their individual contracts (not the face value of their contracts), and each owner would receive 1/32 of league-wide HRR. I believe it is still the case that individual teams whose HRR falls substantially below 1/32 of league-wide HRR are eligible for a transfer "booster" payment from the owner's 50% share. That clause enables poorer (typically smaller-market) teams to remain viable, or if they are in a local business cycle downturn.

Teams which spend to the cap are in effect choosing to subsidize >1/32 of the 50% of HRR to the players.

Without a lower floor, some teams would qualify for a larger subsidy of the revenue sharing. Jacobs, Dolan, MLSE, etc., would object to that.

My comments above ignore the nuance of what an individual team actually pays it's individual players (because it's separate from the cap). A team with a $75M cap number may be paying more or less than that in salary in any given year depending how the individual contracts are structured, both in terms of annual cost for each player and how that annual cost is split between signing bonus (not subject to escrow) and salary (which is subject to escrow), and what the division of escrow is for that year between the players and owners.

Are they supposed to sign some free agent leftover huge dollars to get back over the floor?

The point of the floor is to keep player spending high. It's a concession to the players. The money that Buffalo doesnt spend goes back to all players through esgrow. I doubt they'd mind that
Strictly speaking, the floor alone doesn't keep total player spending high. The player's 50% share of HRR is irrespective of the sum of the cost of the league-wide contracts. If all teams spent less than the cap midpoint (1/32nd of 50% of HRR), then actual player salary received would be proportionally higher than the sum of the face value of the contracts, and pro-rated accordingly.

Yet, both the NHL and NHLPA - the signers to the CBA that covers the cap (and re-upped it w/o revision to this situation) - do not see it that way. They have already established situations that are considered circumvention. This situation is not one of them, no matter whether a fan affirmatively thinks it is.
Agreed.

No, not really. Boychuk agreed to terms with the Islanders on a reasonable deal (it wasn't like what was attempted with the Kovalchuk situation). He was expected to play for all of those years and there was little reason to think he wouldn't. Boychuk then suffered a serious injury to his eye that sidelined him and effectively ended his career. He shouldn't lose out on his contract because he was injured on the job. LTIR is a good solution to this scenario.

What could be viewed as cap circumvention is the trading for a player like Boychuk because all parties know he'll never play again and the team acquiring him has no intention of ever playing him, unlike the team that signed him to the deal originally.

I haven't done enough reading about it because I don't care that much but the Hossa situation could also be viewed as cap circumvention, when a player acquires a mysterious (fake) injury to allow them to go on LTIR. Very difficult to prove though.

If you don't allow players with career ending injuries to go on LTIR, what's the solution? They get paid out and the cap comes off completely? Teams would likely prefer that I'd think. Teams getting stuck with that cap hit as if the player was playing doesn't seem right either and would really limit the amount of years teams would be willing to sign players to.
How exactly does the bolded circumvent the cap? Agree with your other points.
Adams is a bad GM. Feel bad for Sabres fans. This won’t be the guy to lead you out of the dumps.
Essay grade:
+1 for stating Main Point / Premise.
+1 for including personal view.
+1 for conclusion/summary which repeats Main Point.
Major deduction for examples / reasons substantiating Main Point.
Not really if the contract is fully insured.
Agreed. It's either 60% or 80% insured. (I think 80%) Elsewhere it's been posted it's only costing BUF $225 or $250k in actual cash to Boychuk (without escrow adjustment factored in). His signing bonus has been paid already, and I think the remaining salary would be reduced by 1 paycheck. It's actually an excellent cash-value of LTIR cap space.

Lou needed this as well. So..
I think it's fairer to say BUF needed it, and NYI wanted it. Lou certainly didn't need it "today".

Need is a strong word here. I think the isles were fine but Lou saw an opportunity so he took it. He wasn’t desperate
Agreed.
 
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brian_griffin

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No, for me there is no defence for Adams.
Tongue in cheek response: This thread is about the Boychuk deal, not the Sabres on-ice woes.
Serious response: LouLam knew he was holding one of, if not the best-value LTIR contract in the NHL. 1 year, high cap hit, near-zero cash-cost given that the signing bonus had already been paid.
Is there another LTIR contract in the league where the cap hit was ~24 times the actual uninsured cash cost born by the team?

How exactly does Adams, who needed the cap hit, extract an additional pick from LouLam to take the Boychuk contract? LouLam would have told him to sign a free agent or trade a minor leaguer for a poor-value NHLer on another team.
 
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Chardo

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Tim Thomas was traded for a 2nd round pick in a similar transaction. Wonder what the future considerations will be in this trade.
 

brian_griffin

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Nothing to see here, just some cap circumvention.
(and)
Looking forward to seeing Boychuk on the ice for Buffalo!
(and)
Circumvention is alive and well I see.
Cap circumvention is Hossa's "skin allergy", or Kucherov's miraculous healing right before the playoffs. Explain how this is cap circumvention.
tldr: Pegula is a cheap p.o.s now.

Had a chance to use cap to acquire a warm body who may be pissed about going to Buffalo, and try to prove himself.

Instead, acquire a done player because the real money owed is cheap, and with insurance, probably 0 dollars.
The bolded option is still possible.

Sabres should have made this move as soon as they were set on moving Eichel. Forced themselves into this position and no return for taking cap/salary.
Maybe yes, maybe no. They foresaw they had available space. They would / should have waited until after Boychuk's signing bonus was paid to trade for him, which they did. And maybe they could have extracted a pick from Lou in that interim. Alternatively, they had no true knowledge of how much salary they would take back from an Eichel trade, or if the trading team would have offered the players BUF wanted.

So I figured out Buffalo's logic for this trade. They are really close to the cap min(although above it), this trade allows them to dump players at the deadline if a deal comes up basically.
More critically in the short term it allows them to return players from IR to the active Roster and consequently send down an emergency callup to be </=23 roster slots, yet still remain above the cap floor.
Kevin Adams is a really really really really bad GM. He could easy squeezed out a 2nd or 3rd pick. But here comws Lou with the unbelivable win. One summer and he cleans out Ladd, boychuk, Eberles contract. Wow.
Adams needed to make the trade, LouLam didn't. Adams could have shopped elsewhere, but Boychuk's deal was best value.
 
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joshjull

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Lou needed this as well. So..


The Sabres HAD to add cap space after the Eichel trade. Otherwise our injured players couldn’t return to the lineup. Lou didn’t need to make this trade to stay cap compliant. But he does get nice benefits from it to do things at the trade deadline. Its a mutually beneficial trade.

You’re not getting the dynamics of this trade and youre hardly alone in that.

Remember when the Leafs traded Marleau to the Canes to get cap compliant? In this trade the Sabres are the Leafs not the Canes. In both cases the teams (Leafs/Sabres) were making a trade they needed to make to stay cap complaint. They difference is we’re trying to comply with the lower limit. Maybe thats whats throwing posters off.
 
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danteipp

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My recollection is the Tim Thomas cap dump on the Isles was for essentially no return.

Yes, it was a conditional second rounder and only converted if Thomas played a game for the Isles, or presumably if he was traded to another team and played in the NHL that season. It didn't convert, nor did anyone really expect it would.
 

Blackjack

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CAn you articulate what you take umbrage with, and why?

I could point out that the Islanders already paid Boychuk his signing bonus, and thus the lion's share of what he's owed this year, so the pro-rata nature of the salary cap means that the Islanders paid salary that never got charged against the cap. (or, more accurately, will now be charged against Buffalo's cap.)

I could point out that the Islanders paid Boychuk more money in the early years of his contract than his cap hit. This money is also now charged against Buffalo's cap.

I could even point out that Boychuk is never playing in the NHL again, so there's clearly no hockey reason for the trade.

But why would I bother? These things are obvious to anyone that puts any amount of critical thought into it. But there are plenty of people on the board who are determined to be dense and obtuse about it, and pretend that it's fine since it follows the rules. So I just point it out when I see it and call it what it is: cap circumvention.
 

brian_griffin

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<response above>
Everything you say is true, and most recognize it objectively; I certainly do, and I appreciate you replying. But why or what about the above is cap circumvention?

Who is being harmed or what unfairness is created in the above "cap circumvention"?

I'm not being an ass, I'm trying to understand what your definition of cap circumvention is.

Signing bonuses are not subject to escrow which is why you'll continue to see creativity in contract structure. Currently all but three NHL teams spend above the cap midpoint. The players in aggregate are not getting cheated. Every season will have some teams spending more actual dollars than their cap hit, and some teams spending less actual dollars than their cap hit (And setting aside the common effects of escrow and the pro-rated division of the player's 50% share of HRR).

And by extension, would you consider the following situations "cap circumvention"?

If a team is over the upper cap, has player(s) on LTIR, and is therefore eligible for LTIR cap relief, but their actual salary payroll is just under the upper cap (by an amount less than the cost of the minimum SPC), should that team be not allowed LTIR cap relief?

Should teams with total cap hits less than some amount be prohibited from acquiring LTIR contracts? On what rationale?

Should players with career ending injuries have their remaining contract years voided? (That's a scenario far riper for cap shenanigans than the current reality.)

Should teams be required to have an actual payroll which is some percentage of the cap floor? On what rationale?

What "new rules" would keep the Boychuk situation from being your definition of cap circumvention?
 

Blackjack

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Everything you say is true, and most recognize it objectively; I certainly do, and I appreciate you replying. But why or what about the above is cap circumvention?

Who is being harmed or what unfairness is created in the above "cap circumvention"?

I'm not being an ass, I'm trying to understand what your definition of cap circumvention is.

The unfairness is that teams that are more willing to spend money are advantaged over teams that are not. The cap is supposed to provide an acceptable range of spending, and by spending more, the league is being dishonest about how much spending parity there is.

The fans of teams that spend less are the ones that are harmed by this, as they have a harder time competing for UFAs and more expensive players.

Signing bonuses are not subject to escrow which is why you'll continue to see creativity in contract structure. Currently all but three NHL teams spend above the cap midpoint. The players in aggregate are not getting cheated. Every season will have some teams spending more actual dollars than their cap hit, and some teams spending less actual dollars than their cap hit (And setting aside the common effects of escrow and the pro-rated division of the player's 50% share of HRR).

Right, signing bonuses are another example of cap circumvention as a team that offers a bonus-heavy structure has a huge advantage over a team that does not, even though the cap hit is the same. It's worth pointing out that theoretically if revenues match projections the value of signing bonuses and conventional salary is the same, but this is often not the case, and players certainly seem to value signing bonus dollars quite a bit.

Mika Zibanejad just signed a contract that is nearly 90% signing bonuses. That allowed the Rangers to offer him less AAV than a team that was not willing to spend that much above escrow.

And by extension, would you consider the following situations "cap circumvention"?

If a team is over the upper cap, has player(s) on LTIR, and is therefore eligible for LTIR cap relief, but their actual salary payroll is just under the upper cap (by an amount less than the cost of the minimum SPC), should that team be not allowed LTIR cap relief?

Should teams with total cap hits less than some amount be prohibited from acquiring LTIR contracts? On what rationale?

Should players with career ending injuries have their remaining contract years voided? (That's a scenario far riper for cap shenanigans than the current reality.)

Should teams be required to have an actual payroll which is some percentage of the cap floor? On what rationale?

What "new rules" would keep the Boychuk situation from being your definition of cap circumvention?

My own preference would be for a luxury tax system similar to what baseball uses. No hard cap, but no exceptions to the cap either. All salaries count against it, and if you go over the soft cap, you pay a luxury tax.

In the absence of that, I would be okay with an LTIR provision that allowed the team to exceed the cap by $1 million or so for each injured player on a one-way contract. This would allow teams to replace injured players with ELCs or minor leaguers, which is how teams almost always replace injured players anyway.
 

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