Broward officials hire consultant to assess possibility of allowing Panthers to leave

[PanthersHockey1]

So are you saying if breaking the lease costs too much, owner and NHL should cover Panthers' losses?
If they break the lease, pay the hefty payment to county, it means that county will have virtually dept free arena.

JOL

From my understanding County not panthers are on the hook for arena construction costs which were probably amortized over a long time not panthers. Lease with panthers helps cover debt service.

No Panthers=Debt Exposure for county.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

La Presse published this because it makes it look hopeful for QC, the mayor saying "I never said I'd give them more money." However any rational person knew that she wouldn't give them more if the consultant said it's pointless, so there's nothing new here. Also, because their new arena is ready for 2015, every little thing becomes a big deal to their media.


QC got ****ed by the NHL and deserves a new team, which they will definitely get, but not at the price of another team.

 

[adam graves]

La Presse published this because it makes it look hopeful for QC, the mayor saying "I never said I'd give them more money." However any rational person knew that she wouldn't give them more if the consultant said it's pointless, so there's nothing new here. Also, because their new arena is ready for 2015, every little thing becomes a big deal to their media.


QC got ****ed by the NHL and deserves a new team, which they will definitely get, but not at the price of another team.

they had a team.

they lost a team.

they have the habs a couple hours away.

not sure deserved applies.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Here is a link to the article from back in January which breaks down what the Panthers are asking for those who may have missed it:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-01-09/news/fl-panthers-request-public-money-20140109_1_florida-panthers-panthers-president-michael-yormark-panthers-organization

Adding the "Devil's in the Details" (Copyright purposes I condensed the line items. You'll have to reference the article for full details)

"The proposal includes implicit reductions to the county profit share," an audit document obtained by the Sun Sentinel says. "The proposal effectively increases the $12 million profit share threshold to over $18 million.''

The team's main request is to be relieved of contributing toward the debt on the arena; the county would pay the remainder of the $225.1 million debt, with help from a $2 million annual state subsidy.

That's not all the Panthers are asking for. Here's what else is in the 59-page Panthers proposal:

•If the arena profits exceed $12 million, the county would reap 20 percent of any profits. That's not changing. But the calculation of "profit" would change, to help the Panthers keep more of the revenues.

•The Panthers would remove from the profit books the money made from seats in exclusive sections: Club Red and ADT.

•The Panthers' contributions toward arena reserves, set aside for repairs and renovations, would be cut

•The ability of the county to check the Panthers' financial books would be reduced.

•The team's payment for property insurance for the arena would be capped at $1 million

The team would back away from financial responsibility for maintaining the arena, and would ask the county to pick up $500,000 a year in maintenance.

•A 22-acre piece of vacant land owned by the county next to the arena would be given to the Panthers for construction of a hotel-casino. The county's financial return would be negotiated.

As the proposal heads into heavy negotiations, commissioners Tuesday hired a consultant, Squire Sanders, to help.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fl-panthers-nitty-gritty-20140315,0,4535955.story?page=1

Still Coyotes are losing money and like it was mentioned earlier in this thread, if losses reach $50 million by certain year, their lease will be null and void and they can relocate.

JOL

Minor point of clarification, JOL. Its $50M that IceArizona can invoke their out clause... not necessarily making the Lease voided.

I posted this in the BOH, but no one answered, so I'll try you. Again, hypothetically speaking, if they don't get the money in October, I don't see that as being a clear sign the team is done, It just opens up the possibility. Viola would still need to pay a lot to break the lease and I'm assuming the NHL would intervene. I don't get the correlation of not getting this money= automatic relocation.

I was waiting to see what other responses you'd get but you're right... it would not be a clear sign. Just more uncertainty and bluff calling. Recalling the LiveNation letter and the veiled comments from Cifu and Babich. Regarding the breaking of the Lease, its actually the ask itself that has some members of staff uneasy. Take Evan Lukic for example

Its important to note that the "$200 Million" is the overall debt service remaining on the Arena and that the only portion that SSE is on the hook for currently is $4.5M annually. As I posted weeks back, Evan Lukic (Broward County Auditor) stated at the Workshop held in February that if SSE is seeking to wipe out that portion in the proposal/Revised Agreement it would make it easier for SSE to effectively break the lease as that $4.5M annually ties them into the pay down of the Arena Debt that's outstanding... and makes it significantly harder to break the Agreement/Lease.

Hence the comment

"This isn't a debate about whether to build an arena,'' Babich said. "The arena is here. The arena has significant debt on it. If the hockey team fails .... one way or another the county's going to have to deal with the debt on that arena.''

Also, should that happen its equally important to note that without a major sports franchise tied to the Arena not only would Broward have to pick up SSE's portion, they also lose (or pick up too) the $2M they get from the State annually.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=83109731&postcount=168

From my understanding County not panthers are on the hook for arena construction costs which were probably amortized over a long time not panthers. Lease with panthers helps cover debt service.

No Panthers=Debt Exposure for county.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=83109731&postcount=168

Correct, PH1. Panthers are only on the hook for $4.5M of that annually as it stands now. Broward pays the entire freight. $4.5M is the Panthers contribution towards it.

 

[Major4Boarding]

they had a team.

they lost a team.

they have the habs a couple hours away.

not sure deserved applies.

Its in no way, shape, or form that simple AG. No self-respecting Nordiques has, or ever will, just arbitrarily pick up being a Habs fan... ever. To contrast that, that's like saying a 'Canes fan becoming a 'Noles fan.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

they had a team.

they lost a team.

they have the habs a couple hours away.

not sure deserved applies.

I appreciate that you may not like their fans (I don't either) but they sold out almost every game, just got screwed by an awful Canadian dollar and an ancient arena.

I hate the "they have a team a couple hours away argument." If the Panthers moved would you become a Lightning fan? I doubt it.



This is irrelevant to the thread anyway, but Quebec City will have a team within 5 years, if not by relocation then with expansion, which will happen by 2020, probably earlier, so you better prepare yourself

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I was waiting to see what other responses you'd get but you're right... it would not be a clear sign. Just more uncertainty and bluff calling. Recalling the LiveNation letter and the veiled comments from Cifu and Babich. Regarding the breaking of the Lease, its actually the ask itself that has some members of staff uneasy. Take Evan Lukic for example



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=83109731&postcount=168

Right, I have no doubt that if the team (and I still think they will) get some money, come October, this is the first thing that a pro relocationist will mention in that thread However, I can't even imagine the hell (from them, their lawyers, the NHL) that would be raised if the county bailed them out and the team then used that money for relocation. Talk about unethical. I mean I know Viola is from New York, but I seriously doubt that he's plotting something like that

 

[ShootIt]

I know It's old info, buts a lot for the Panthers to ask for.

Hopefully it works out.

 

[angry_treefrog]

Quebec City is not relevant to the topic at hand.

Further posts regarding Quebec City will be deleted.

Signed -

the management

 

[flapanthersfan]

Adding the "Devil's in the Its important to note that the "$200 Million" is the overall debt service remaining on the Arena and that the only portion that SSE is on the hook for currently is $4.5M annually. As I posted weeks back, Evan Lukic (Broward County Auditor) stated at the Workshop held in February that if SSE is seeking to wipe out that portion in the proposal/Revised Agreement it would make it easier for SSE to effectively break the lease as that $4.5M annually ties them into the pay down of the Arena Debt that's outstanding... and makes it significantly harder to break the Agreement/Lease..

if i'm reading this correctly - does that mean we, as fans, actually want the panthers to lose this part of the ask?

it makes no sense for broward to make it easier on them to break the lease if their intentions are not pure.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Correct. You (meaning Broward County) want them to remain having some obligation to the Debt Service. Its important to also note that Lukic then framed the concerns (Debt Service obligation eliminated plus other wording in the Agreement) around the possibility that bankruptcy is what would "make it easier".

There was a discussion (conjecture) over on the BoH some months back about what the renegotiated terms could be

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=81842461&postcount=114

 

[flapanthersfan]

Correct. You (meaning Broward County) want them to remain having some obligation to the Debt Service. Its important to also note that Lukic then framed the concerns (Debt Service obligation eliminated plus other wording in the Agreement) around the possibility that bankruptcy is what would "make it easier".

There was a discussion (conjecture) over on the BoH some months back about what the renegotiated terms could be

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=81842461&postcount=114

sounds like you're very well informed on the matter.

politics just isn't my forte

what exactly do you think is going on here? posturing, or legitimate threat that the panthers could relocate?

 

[Major4Boarding]

what exactly do you think is going on here? posturing, or legitimate threat that the panthers could relocate?

Simply put, negotiation via hardball

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

if i'm reading this correctly - does that mean we, as fans, actually want the panthers to lose this part of the ask?

it makes no sense for broward to make it easier on them to break the lease if their intentions are not pure.

Imo you would rather them get the money. Rory said if we don't get the money we have to start considering other options. To me it's unlikely (not to mention unethical and probably illegal), that they would take that money and immediately stab them in the back.

sounds like you're very well informed on the matter.

politics just isn't my forte

what exactly do you think is going on here? posturing, or legitimate threat that the panthers could relocate?

No one knows what's going to happen if they don't get the money, as was mentioned when I was worried, the NHL would probably intervene, because unlike Arizona, I think they could still easily find another buyer to keep the team here, if it came to it.

 

[Prominence Problem]

Could this have anything to do with the team moving back to Miami? Do they even have a rink that is feasible there?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I hate talk of florida or whatever leaving and I'm a habs fan.

The sport will never be as big as it is here but success will bring revenues and create a buzz. I wish the panthers success because I want them to stay.

Unless of course the move is across the street then sure no big deal but otherwise meh.

 

[IM Clutcm]

I hate talk of florida or whatever leaving and I'm a habs fan.

The sport will never be as big as it is here but success will bring revenues and create a buzz. I wish the panthers success because I want them to stay.

Unless of course the move is across the street then sure no big deal but otherwise meh.

Appreciate the support.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

Could this have anything to do with the team moving back to Miami? Do they even have a rink that is feasible there?

Marlins Park hahahaha.

But seriously... I would hope the move would be to PBC, not MDC, if ever such a move were to happen. People in Miami don't give a **** about the Marlins, and that's arguably their most supported demographic. Don't get me wrong.... there's a thousand reasons to be disaffected by the Marlins at this point... but still.