Brock McGinn’s headshot on Mike Sgarbossa

[tarheelhockey]

I see it as Sgarbossa trying to make a hockey play himself- if he continues on his course he's being run out of the play, it's not "avoiding the hit" so much as it's trying to make a good offensive play. You're not allowed to try and make a guy miss anymore? McGinn launches upwards, that's the issue here- if he just runs through the chest or outside shoulder it's just a solid hit. I'd expect 1-2 games.

McGinn’s already committed to the hit when Sgarbossa suddenly tries to dip out of the way. You’re asking a guy on skates, who’s already powering into body contact, to assess a change in his target’s direction and re-orient his body... in about a quarter of a second. It’s not possible to do that.

McGinn’s momentum carries him through the hitting motion, with elbow down and shoulder out... one skate leaves the ice for a split-second but there’s no “launch” here either. What would he be suspended for?

There’s not a hockey coach in the world who will say it’s a good idea to try and jump away from a hit. This play illustrates exactly why... glancing contact to the head is more dangerous than direct contact to the body core.

 

[Chrispy]

Yes, Sgarbossa is trying to make a hockey play, and he tried it too late to avoid the hit. If he tries it a little earlier, he makes McGinn look silly like Pesce's move earlier in the game.

He made the move too late and got clipped across the front. I don't see that as suspension-worthy for McGinn given he didn't raise the elbow, launch, or do anything else to indicate he was going for a head shot before the last-second movement.

 

[snipes]

Great hit.

Don’t cut into the middle like that.

 

[Dahlin 2 Eichel]

This is a pretty dumb take. Even if he takes the hit he gets lit up in a dangerous spot where he easily crashes toward the boards. This definitely should be a suspension and guys have been suspended for much less

Your response is pretty dumb. Hitting is part of the game. Doesn’t matter if it’s away from the boards or at the boards. You’re aloud to make contact with a player. Hit would have been clean and fine if the player didn’t try and dodge it.

 

[Chips]

At the least it was a reckless hit, but probably not more. Maybe less, idk. Hard to tell if he “launched”, certainly didn’t leap. I absolutely, as a Caps fan, do see the guy trying to lean back like trying to avoid the hit putting himself in a worse position,.. but only so much. McGinn really missed big time, and arguably might have hit head anyway.

I think maybe 1game or 2, certainly not 10.

It really does look like his shoulder came up last second. That’s the thing for me, but NHL is obviously inconsistent so he’ll probably get a trophy named after him.

 

[57special]

He rose up to target the chin. It looked intentional, and precisely the sort of hit that the league is trying to stop. If he hadn't lifted up his shoulder then it would've been fine, and just as effective.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He rose up to target the chin. It looked intentional, and precisely the sort of hit that the league is trying to stop. If he hadn't lifted up his shoulder then it would've been fine, and just as effective.

I think that's probably a fair assessment. I think the only thing that the league may consider (per the rulebook) is did the skater put himself in a position to where it was unavoidable by pulling up like he did. I won't be surprised either way, a suspension or no suspension.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

It’s a good thing Tom Wilson came along so Caps fans could take a break from their “Alex Ovechkin is treated unfairly by the league” objection.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Take the hit. Don’t stop and pull back to try and dodge the hit. Won’t be a suspension.

Didn't a Buffalo player turn to avoid a hit and got crunched into the boards last year and you lost it on the player for hitting your team's player ?

 

[txpd]

Nothing happens here. Clean hit. Wilson might get fined for responding to Brind'Amour's yapping at him. I could see that happening

 

[txpd]

It’s a good thing Tom Wilson came along so Caps fans could take a break from their “Alex Ovechkin is treated unfairly by the league” objection.

Smooth. You noticed the similarity. Good for you. It used to be Ov was the dirtiest player in the league. With Wilson around, that gets forgotten. But Canes fans know the truth.

 

[bleedgreen]

McGinn’s already committed to the hit when Sgarbossa suddenly tries to dip out of the way. You’re asking a guy on skates, who’s already powering into body contact, to assess a change in his target’s direction and re-orient his body... in about a quarter of a second. It’s not possible to do that.

McGinn’s momentum carries him through the hitting motion, with elbow down and shoulder out... one skate leaves the ice for a split-second but there’s no “launch” here either. What would he be suspended for?

There’s not a hockey coach in the world who will say it’s a good idea to try and jump away from a hit. This play illustrates exactly why... glancing contact to the head is more dangerous than direct contact to the body core.

Exactly this. The player by trying to avoid the hit with a move that’s super low percentage actually pulls his own shoulder out of the way of the hit and leaves his chin available to get hit on Mcginn’s back. A toe drag pull through when a guy like McGinn has you lined up on that angle and 95% of the way there is a poor choice.

 

[shtorm2005]

Since 2013...

Wilson: 290 penalties, 934 PIM, 206 Minor, 64 Major, 2 Match, 3 Game Misconducts, 4 suspensions.
McGinn: 26 penalties, 58 PIN, 24 Minor, 2 Major, 0 Match, 0 Game Misconducts, 0 suspensions.

You don't think there's a good reason why Wilson would be looked at differently than other players by both fans and the league? Regardless of what someone thinks of Wilson, he has repeatedly placed himself in situations worthy of scrutiny.

Why history matters that much? How about if your star player is injured by a scrub? Or your important player suspended for meaningless hit just because he has an history?

 

[bleedgreen]

He rose up to target the chin. It looked intentional, and precisely the sort of hit that the league is trying to stop. If he hadn't lifted up his shoulder then it would've been fine, and just as effective.

I struggle with the whole “he rose up” argument with these. Almost all hits have a upward trajectory as the body powers through, you get into position by coiling up then explode into the hit with your lower body/core sending you outward - it’s actually tough to deck someone when while staying upright on skates while keeping a perfectly lateral trajectory. Most hits have some upward trajectory, now that we have hi def slo mo people see that trajectory as an intentional launch upward. I don’t really see as such, to me it has to be much more exaggerated then what you see here.

Part of the problem is that he does jump into the hit here which is also a natural reaction when hitting.When I look at it over and over I see why people would think he “launched”. I just dont think that’s the problem here. It’s the forward putting himself in a bad spot.

 

[shtorm2005]

Yes, Sgarbossa is trying to make a hockey play, and he tried it too late to avoid the hit. If he tries it a little earlier, he makes McGinn look silly like Pesce's move earlier in the game.

He made the move too late and got clipped across the front. I don't see that as suspension-worthy for McGinn given he didn't raise the elbow, launch, or do anything else to indicate he was going for a head shot before the last-second movement.

Wilson got lenghty suspension for hit on blues player because that player went for shot in the last moment and significally put his head down. Context doesnt matter, player is 100% responsible to not pick the head.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why history matters that much? How about if your star player is injured by a scrub? Or your important player suspended for meaningless hit just because he has an history?

The poster said two different things. 1) commenting about the lack of HF posts on this and 2) commenting about NHL suspensions. His/her direct statement: "50 pages if Wilson. Probably nothing happens. 50 games if Wilson."

So lets take each one.

1) "50 pages if Wilson": Don't you agree that a guy with a history is likely to garner more FAN attention (and thus more HF posts) than a guy with no history? It's the same way in every walk of life so it's clear that "history" matters in Fan reactions (and thus number of HF posts).

2) "Probably nothing happens. 50 games if Wilson.": The NHL, per the CBA is required to take into account if a player is a repeat offender. Article 18.2 (c) states: The status of the offender and, specifically, whether the Player has a history of being subject to Supplementary Discipline for On-Ice Conduct. Players who repeatedly violated League Playing Rules will be more severely punished for each new violation.

So to answer your question, history does matter that much, both from a fan POV and an NHL POV due to the Collective Bargaining agreement.

 

[shtorm2005]

So to answer your question, history does matter that much, both from a fan POV and an NHL POV due to the Collective Bargaining agreement.

I know it matters, I just want to point how silly is this. Ppl hunting repeat offenders, but it doesnt decrease significantly number of concussions because any player without big history is free to take out a player in important game for simple 1-2 games of suspension or nothing at all. Or, exploit player'suspension history in favor of his team.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I know it matters, I just want to point how silly is this. Ppl hunting repeat offenders, but it doesnt decrease significantly number of concussions because any player without big history is free to take out a player in important game for simple 1-2 games of suspension or nothing at all. Or, exploit player'suspension history in favor of his team.

It's perfect sense to me. Each time you do it, the punishment gets worse as a deterrent to keep from doing it again. You have no idea what impact it has on "number of concussions" if there wasn't a deterrent. A player is either getting worse punishment as a repeat offender or getting his first punishment so any future occurrences will be viewed as a repeat offense.

Or are you suggesting that the punishment should remain the same no matter how many times a person commits an offense like this? Now that would be silly.

 

[shtorm2005]

Each time you do it, the punishment gets worse as a deterrent to keep from doing it again

Yeah, to the point when player can't even stand up for a teammate because his actions will be magnified 10x times.

A player is either getting worse punishment as a repeat offender or getting his first punishment so any future occurrences will be viewed as a repeat offense.

Problem is that first one is hard to get or just 1-2 games. That's a very cheap cost and many would use this chance to get away easily.

Or are you suggesting that the punishment should remain the same no matter how many times a person commits an offense like this?

Same 5-10 games each times is not silly. That will prevent both first time/repeat offenders from doing it.

You have to look from POV of the team and it's fanbase that lost the player. They don't need to hope that offender has history to get deserved 5-10 games punishment.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah, to the point when player can't even stand up for a teammate because his actions will be magnified 10x times.

Problem is that first one is hard to get or just 1-2 games. That's a very cheap cost and many would use this chance to get away easily.

Same 5-10 games each times is not silly. That will prevent both first time/repeat offenders from doing it.

You have to look from POV of the team and it's fanbase that lost the player. They don't need to hope that offender has history to get deserved 5-10 games punishment.

And you need to look at it from the POV of the fanbases tired of watching a dirty player recklessly or deliberately injure other players over and over, making the game more dangerous for the rest of the league.

That type of behavior does not have a place in the league. That player either needs to stop trying to injure players or change their reckless behavior. And if previous 5-10 game suspensions don't do it, then you need to continue to increase the punishment until the behavior changes.

This is what other major sports do with reckless play (MLB pitchers throwing at hitters, NFL players with reckless hits, NBA players with flagrant fouls) as well as with repeated offenses against other policies (banned substances, for instance.)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, to the point when player can't even stand up for a teammate because his actions will be magnified 10x times.

Problem is that first one is hard to get or just 1-2 games. That's a very cheap cost and many would use this chance to get away easily.

Same 5-10 games each times is not silly. That will prevent both first time/repeat offenders from doing it.

You have to look from POV of the team and it's fanbase that lost the player. They don't need to hope that offender has history to get deserved 5-10 games punishment.

This is a lot of nonsense. I saw you were from Montreal and figured you to be a Habs fan, but after reading your posts, I take it you are a Caps fan?

 

[DJJones]

How do you not raise your shoulder when going to hit someone. You have to follow through or you get no power. You can't just glide into someone in a stationary position.

Good hit, unfortunate result.

 

[shtorm2005]

And you need to look at it from the POV of the fanbases tired of watching a dirty player recklessly or deliberately injure other players over and over, making the game more dangerous for the rest of the league.

Like it was mentionned earlier, fanbases' focus is mostly on popular players, while there are need to look at whole situation. Last year Caps had 3-4 players concussions/injuries, none of these followed by suspension to the offenders because these players didn't have history. I guess there are many others in the league, which is more important than obessesion with one player.I don't see how league's making an exemple from Wilson decreased concussions/head hits number. Or you think minus 2 or 3 per year from Wilson is a lot?

This is a lot of nonsense. I saw you were from Montreal and figured you to be a Habs fan, but after reading your posts, I take it you are a Caps fan?

Caps fan since 2005-06.

 

[tucker3434]

Sgarbossa’s attempted cut was the reason it wasn’t shoulder to shoulder. You’ve got to protect yourself there.

 

[Unsustainable]

Look, it’s not Brocks Fault his just the much bigger then the rest of the guys on the ice.