Bring the NHL to Houston!!!

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46zone

Pass me the soft pretzels
Feb 5, 2007
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Just to point out how many people call Canadians ignorant for such things as you did, but isn't it also ignorant when Americans say that small-market Canadian teams will hinder or kill the NHL as a league, when we all know damn well that isn't the case?

Just sayin.....................................

Well, for one, I never said that. My opinion is that the NHL should not add more small market Canadian teams. I thought Atlanta going to Winnipeg was fine, but to possibly move another team to a small Canadian city such as Quebec City would be a bad move for the league.

I understand the view of Canadian fans wanting more teams in Canada; I'm sure most American fans do too. I just think that if someone in Houston was serious about bringing an NHL team there the NHL would be stupid not to consider it. Houston is a very big city and it's only getting bigger. It has an NHL ready arena and the game isn't alien to the people there.

As for Kimota...I was just calling a spade a spade. He was being ignorant.
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
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Just to point out how many people call Canadians ignorant for such things as you did, but isn't it also ignorant when Americans say that small-market Canadian teams will hinder or kill the NHL as a league, when we all know damn well that isn't the case?

Just sayin.....................................
Small market Canadian teams do nothing for the grow of the league. They provide cash infusions for money because the people like the sport. The NHL becomes a regional sport without the southern teams, which relegates it from first to third tier status in the US by default.
 

The Apologist

Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Oct 16, 2007
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Small market Canadian teams do nothing for the grow of the league. They provide cash infusions for money because the people like the sport. The NHL becomes a regional sport without the southern teams, which relegates it from first to third tier status in the US by default.

The NHL IS A REGIONAL SPORT, and probably alwasy will be. The sooner we all realise that, the better.
 

angrymnky

Registered User
May 31, 2011
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Can we get another NBA team in Vancouver again so when they have trouble I can blame the ownership, the NBA, or the loser team itself(there's a fan!) and then freak out when the owner wants out and people want to move it south instead of propping the team up and awarding/relocating a franchise to Calgary to help "grow the game".
 

Alex The Loyal

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Dec 4, 2010
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It is a regional sport. It will never be Number 1, hell even Number 2 in most American markets. The NHL will always get a constant cash flow from Canadian markets, even if they are small.

And also, Canadian markets can definitely grow. Canada is growing quite quickly in population I think (250K in immigrants I think) so it's not like Canada is frozen at 34 Million
 

Puckschmuck*

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Small market Canadian teams do nothing for the grow of the league. They provide cash infusions for money because the people like the sport. The NHL becomes a regional sport without the southern teams, which relegates it from first to third tier status in the US by default.

But it doesn't JUST have to be about "growing" the game in the US south. You can max out the number of viable NHL markets in Canada with team and still expand down south at a reasonable rate, creating a sucessful league across the continent. If people truly are concerned about the league in North America, then they should understand that the league has to be available to as many viable markets in both the US AND Canada, granted there won't be as many in Canada simply due to population but my point stands. Don't know why people insist that it has to be one or the other. That is just selfish.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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It is a regional sport. It will never be Number 1, hell even Number 2 in most American markets. The NHL will always get a constant cash flow from Canadian markets, even if they are small.

And also, Canadian markets can definitely grow. Canada is growing quite quickly in population I think (250K in immigrants I think) so it's not like Canada is frozen at 34 Million
Canada is expected to be at 45 million by 2031. Even then, Hamilton and Winnipeg and Quebec will only have added 200k by then. The majority of people go to Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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But it doesn't JUST have to be about "growing" the game in the US south. You can max out the number of viable NHL markets in Canada with team and still expand down south at a reasonable rate, creating a sucessful league across the continent. If people truly are concerned about the league in North America, then they should understand that the league has to be available to as many viable markets in both the US AND Canada, granted there won't be as many in Canada simply due to population but my point stands. Don't know why people insist that it has to be one or the other. That is just selfish.
Of course you can, but how would you feel that you and 8 other Canadian teams are propping some of the worst down south. Then people are priced out. Then they stay home anyway.
 

Blackhawkswincup

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Jun 24, 2007
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It is a regional sport. It will never be Number 1, hell even Number 2 in most American markets. The NHL will always get a constant cash flow from Canadian markets, even if they are small.

And also, Canadian markets can definitely grow. Canada is growing quite quickly in population I think (250K in immigrants I think) so it's not like Canada is frozen at 34 Million

Unless the Cnd dollar drops again major in future. At that point it would again be a bunch of small market teams in Canada losing money as it was in 90's
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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Unless the Cnd dollar drops again major in future. At that point it would again be a bunch of small market teams in Canada losing money as it was in 90's
And something will have to be done because a 65c dollar is the only way Ontario gets out of the recession.
 

JMROWE

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Apr 2, 2010
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Hamilton is not a small market like Winnipeg & Quebec City because Hamilton as access to millions of people in the outlining in & around southwestern ontario .
 

obsenssive*

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The NHL IS A REGIONAL SPORT, and probably alwasy will be. The sooner we all realise that, the better.

Thank you! Bettmans dream of a national US sport is nothing but that, a dream. It has nothing to do with reality. I still wonder what ****ing research they did which demonstrated that it would be advisable to give a team to ****ing miami :shakehead
 

Bear of Bad News

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Sep 27, 2005
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Thank you! Bettmans dream of a national US sport is nothing but that, a dream. It has nothing to do with reality. I still wonder what ****ing research they did which demonstrated that it would be advisable to give a team to ****ing miami :shakehead

Bettman wasn't involved when the NHL awarded an expansion franchise to "****ing Miami".
 

not a trapdoor

I swallowed my keys
Apr 13, 2011
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Small market Canadian teams do nothing for the grow of the league. They provide cash infusions for money because the people like the sport. The NHL becomes a regional sport without the southern teams, which relegates it from first to third tier status in the US by default.

I suspect that if you randomly stopped someone in the street in Dallas or Raleigh, they'd probably rank the NHL as a third tier sport now, behind Football, Basketball, Nascar, etc. Reaching to be held in the same regard as the NFL in these markets might just be an unattainable goal.

The NHL IS A REGIONAL SPORT, and probably alwasy will be. The sooner we all realise that, the better.

I agree with this statement, with a caveat. Yes it's regional, but that doesn't mean it can't find a place in some non-traditional markets. Heck, it's a niche in some of the more traditional US markets and has found its place in these cities.

I do think a team can work in Houston, BTW - the metro area is big enough that it can work well enough without being 1st tier in that market. It doesn't have the same problem as Miami (weird metro area layout, making the market difficult to reach). The biggest factor is having the _right_ owner - one whose first priority is bringing hockey to Houston & making it work. By that I mean one whose willing to lose money over a few years if needed, to develop a strong club, to stick it out while the team gets competitive and not run early. One who takes it personal & not one who sees it as a business venture. Until that owner is in place there's no point bringing a team in.
 

KevFu

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May 22, 2009
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I see Houston getting an NHL. expansion team in 10 years after the market has recovered but right now sunbelt markets are failing & it looks like the NHL. is now trying to distance it self from sunbelt & putting there focus towards putting or keeping teams less riskey markets like Winnipeg , NY. Islanders , Dallas Stars , St. Louis Blues , *Hamilton , *Quebec City & *Seattle.
* Don't have teams yet

See my previous post, by "failing sun belt markets" you mean "PHOENIX."

All you did was mention cities that have teams up for sale or arena issues. Dallas proved it's a good hockey market. Dallas is still the #12 most valuable franchise, with revenues near $90 million. Their owner took on more debt that he could handle when be bought Liverpool FC, and had to sell the Stars and Rangers. That has nothing to do with the Dallas market.

Saying the Islanders problem is anything but an arena/political issue is absurd. It's not a "risky" hockey market. It's the #1 metropolitan area on the continent.

15 is not good. But have you seen any Stars games on tv last year? Empty. I was suprised myself as I thought the Stars were a thriving franchise. But when I saw that I couldn't believe it. I'm not saying it's just Dallas though, the NHL has had attendances issues all year across the board. But it's definitly worse in certain places.

The Red Wings were averaging 8,000 a game before Stevie Y came along. Sports is cyclical. "Down" attendance in bad years doesn't mean anything. This is a market that has topped Edmonton in attendance for the last decade; and again, their revenue streams are just fine to be able to survive lean years. Operating in the red for a couple years doesn't mean a market's failing, or 85 of 122 major pro sports teams would have died a long time ago.

Unfortunately when there's 8+ franchises in the south one or two of them (or more) will miss the playoffs for 3 straight years. Not all of them can, or ever will make the playoffs all the time. If the only thing keeping these teams alive is Mike Modano winning them Stanley cups then we got a problem. :dumbo:

If by "alive" you mean a top 12 team in value and revenue, then yes. Again, if Dallas is screwed because of a bad year, then the entire league is doomed.

But it doesn't JUST have to be about "growing" the game in the US south. You can max out the number of viable NHL markets in Canada with team and still expand down south at a reasonable rate, creating a sucessful league across the continent. If people truly are concerned about the league in North America, then they should understand that the league has to be available to as many viable markets in both the US AND Canada, granted there won't be as many in Canada simply due to population but my point stands. Don't know why people insist that it has to be one or the other. That is just selfish.

It's all about finding proper balance. The NHL (not Gary Bettman) screwed up with too many markets as "growth markets" at the same time. OTT, ANA, COL and MIN were not growth markets. SJ, TB, FLA, PHX, CAR, CBJ, NASH, ATL were. That's too many to take on at once, especially when you're putting four of them in one division.

Bettman wasn't involved when the NHL awarded an expansion franchise to "****ing Miami".

Bettman presided over giving teams to Minnesota, Atlanta (had hockey before), Columbus (teased with Hartford relocation), Nashville (teased with NJ relocation). I've said for the last two years that those things bode well for WIN and QUE. Winnipeg has a team back. Quebec is probably next.

the next team to relocate goes to quebec. simple as that.

I'd agree, except I doubt the NHL wants to send two teams from the south to Canada so close, lest everyone believe the MYTH AND FALSEHOOD that "Sun Belt expansion was a failure." It isn't, it wasn't, it won't be. I think the smart way to go is to say "The success of Winnipeg has shown that the financial issues faced that market and others in the 1990s were not a condemnation of those cities' viability for NHL hockey. With that in mind, we need to get back into Quebec. So we're giving expansion teams to Quebec and Seattle. And oh, by the way, Phoenix is moving to Houston."

the nhl took their nordiques, they owe them.

Totally wrong. Marcel Aubut sold the Nordiques to Denver investors after no one willing to invest in keeping the team in Quebec stepped up. Same the Winnipeg Jets and Atlanta Thrashers. And hey, if WIN, QUE (and MIN) didn't fail, their teams were just ripped away, then Atlanta didn't fail either.

after then ive got to say balsille gets his team in hamilton.

after those two houston becomes a viable option

Houston doesn't require two teams to sign off. They'll get a team before Hamilton does.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,175
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Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
The NHL IS A REGIONAL SPORT, and probably alwasy will be. The sooner we all realise that, the better.

because? What happens when we all realize this? We stop trying to introduce new fans to an awesome sport, putting it on television, and don't have teams in cities where 27% of the populations of USA/CAN reside?

If the NHL was a regional sport then no Southern markets would be succeeding which obviously isn't true.

Yes, if hockey was only a regional sport then LA, SJ, ANA, DAL, NASH, CAR, FLA, TB, ATL, AHL teams in Austin, Houston, San Antonio, Charlotte and Virginia, and ECHL teams in California, Las Vegas, etc, etc, would have sold zero tickets instead of the probably 60 million total (a guess) over the last 40 years.

Thank you! Bettmans dream of a national US sport is nothing but that, a dream. It has nothing to do with reality. I still wonder what ****ing research they did which demonstrated that it would be advisable to give a team to ****ing miami :shakehead

Bettman wasn't the commissioner when the NHL's Board of Governors told commission John Zeigler to expand to at least 28 in 10 years back in 1989.

It is a regional sport. It will never be Number 1, hell even Number 2 in most American markets.

I suspect that if you randomly stopped someone in the street in Dallas or Raleigh, they'd probably rank the NHL as a third tier sport now, behind Football, Basketball, Nascar, etc. Reaching to be held in the same regard as the NFL in these markets might just be an unattainable goal.

So what? The Rangers will never be bigger than the Yankees or NY Giants, the Red Wings will never be bigger than the Lions, the Blackhawks will never be bigger than the Bears. Why does that matter? That's not a sign of viability for anything.

I watch the NHL (even when my team isn't in the playoffs), MLB, NFL (my interest is slowly dying in this… even though I lived in New Orleans when the Saints won the Super Bowl). L'il bit of the NBA finals, college basketball (STH), college baseball (STH), college football, IndyCar, occasionally Nascar, EPL (and next year Champions League since I'm a City fan), the World Cup, the Euro competition every four years, US soccer in any competition, Occasionally watch an MLS game. I've been to college volleyball matches (men's and women's), softball games, field hockey games (although I confess I've been on the clock to be at some), not to mention curling, and the Olympics every four years.

So, if hockey isn't #1 in my heart, I don't count as a hockey fan? I can't watch the games? The NHL isn't interested in my money from tickets, TV ratings, and merchandise sales?

The NHL will always get a constant cash flow from Canadian markets, even if they are small.

Yes, and? The NHL is also getting constant cash flow from US markets. NY, CHI, BOS, PHI, DET, LA are all big US markets that make a lot of money for the NHL. That's because the NHL is a LEAGUE of codependent members.

Something like 22 of 30 teams have gotten some form of the revenue sharing, including EDM, CAL, OTT, VAN and soon to be WIN.
The League of codependent members gives the bottom half of the league payments to pull each other closer to the revenue midpoint, regardless of geography. Every team is eligible but NYR, NYI, CHI, TOR, LA and ANA.

Yes it's regional, but that doesn't mean it can't find a place in some non-traditional markets. Heck, it's a niche in some of the more traditional US markets and has found its place in these cities.

SPORTS are niche, as well as virtually everything in life. There's virtually nothing that is universal. There's people in every city who have no interest in different things. "Hockey is Religion in Canada" is a great metaphor. But that doesn't mean atheists don't exist.

There's people who don't pay any attention to ______. Religion, politics, sports, news, TV, movies, music, etc.

"It's place" has to be enough revenue to make it a business venture that someone wants to buy when the current owner sells. That's it. The more people interest, the more money it'll make, but it doesn't need total saturation.

I do think a team can work in Houston, BTW - the metro area is big enough that it can work well enough without being 1st tier in that market. It doesn't have the same problem as Miami (weird metro area layout, making the market difficult to reach). The biggest factor is having the _right_ owner - one whose first priority is bringing hockey to Houston & making it work. By that I mean one whose willing to lose money over a few years if needed, to develop a strong club, to stick it out while the team gets competitive and not run early. One who takes it personal & not one who sees it as a business venture. Until that owner is in place there's no point bringing a team in.

Hockey/sports teams aren't stand-alone businesses. Guys who own sports teams got their money from other business ventures, and the team is part of a portfolio. Which is why "they're losing money!" is a stupid thing to point to as a "failing market." Lots of owners don't care if the team loses money, because it's a tax shelter that way. They make the money off the sale, not off the operation in 75% of franchises.

The NHL would work in Houston because it's a top 7 market, with millions of people who really care about their sports, take pride in beating Dallas in anything, have an arena ready to go, have ample corporate sponsorship opportunities, a massive TV market reach beyond their DMA. And they're on the cusp of not being eligible for revenue sharing which some people here seem to despise so much.
 

jamwires

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Sep 22, 2008
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I get really sick of this Canada vs. USA ********. Seriously.

And if anyone calls you Houston folks "dreamers," just think, us people here in Winnipeg were called the very same thing a year ago, or even a couple of months ago.

ANYWHERE is a viable market if you have an NHL building and ownership.
 

StoneColdFlower*

Guest
If the Sabres rely on Canadian fans to survive, maybe its time to shut up and move to Hamilton.
 

knorthern knight

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Mar 18, 2011
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I get really sick of this Canada vs. USA ********. Seriously.

And if anyone calls you Houston folks "dreamers," just think, us people here in Winnipeg were called the very same thing a year ago, or even a couple of months ago.

ANYWHERE is a viable market if you have an NHL building and ownership.
100% agreed. SOME southern US teams have run into financial problems (e.g. Phoenix), while others have done very well (e.g. Los Angeles and Tampa). For that matter SOME Canadian teams (e.g. Winnipeg/Quebec/Ottawa) ran into problems one time or another. Cities should be treated on a case by case basis. If they look promising, give them a franchise and see what happens over 15 years. And sometimes external factors hit you, like they hit Atlanta twice. I feel sorry for the hockey fans there. Cousens and ASG killed 2 promising franchises.
 

Kebekoi

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Oct 3, 2006
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