Fat Tony
Fire Benning
- Nov 28, 2011
- 3,012
- 0
Proposal: Bring the Canucks farm team to vancouver
- Thread starter HarvP19
- Start date
I would have liked to have seen Victoria pick up an AHL team instead of WHL, but that ship has sailed. While I think it would be well supported in Vancouver, I see no urgency to leave Utica. I'd settle for seeing more of their games televised.
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
Utica has dedicated loud fans, and is a great place to develop young players. A Vancouver based farm team would have about a thousand silent people at the game. Keep it where it is.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Given the majority of both the NHL and the AHL is situated further East than Vancouver, it makes perfect geographic sense to keep the team in Utica. Couple that with the team working there, the embrace from the fans and the market, and to say nothing of Vancouver's ability to support an AHL team (of which I am dubious), the logical choice is for them to stay put on Utica.
NoShowWilly
Registered User
Brendan Gaunce lost his gear on a transfer flight last season attempting to get to the Canucks. Utica to Vancouver is basically a 9-10 hour travel day. Every flight from Syracuse to Vancouver has to be a connector flight. They just end up not using the players when they get called up.
The Canucks are in the East 16 games a season. It is beneficial when we are out there, sure. They are on the road in the Central 12 games a season max. that is 28 games out of the Pacific. 34% of the season.
The AHL teams in the west play against themselves and don't play the East at all. Sucked for Charlotte last year but i imagine they are moving into the East this season.
Utica played in:
Rochester 3 times
Hartford 2 times
Binghamton 4 times
Albany 4 times
Bridgeport 1
Springfield 2
Syracuse 5
Hartford 2
Portland 2
Toronto 4
St. Johns 4
WB Scranton 1
Hershey 1
Lehigh Valley 2
Providence 1
An AHL team in the Pacific would play in
California 20
Arizona 4
Texas or another affiliate 4
central teams 1-2. likely once.
With the structure of the AHL now it is not nearly as bad as it was. The travel still sucks compared to an AHL east team but for the Canucks to get a player up to the big team it would be much easier having them out here.
I hope next year we put more draft picks in the farm system, i want to see less ahl contracted players on the team. This year i there were a lot of injuries so i understand the reason for signing these ahl contracts.
JuniorNelson
Registered User
What? There would be a massive outcry, an AHL team isn't going to placate anyone in Vancouver. It won't happen anyway, the market is worth too much to the league.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
To be fair, all that travel has the side benefit of our prospects getting used to the travel they'd have to experience in Vancouver.
20 of those games are short bus trips with all but Toronto 1-2 hours with To around 4. Of the rest only Portland and St. John's were really lengthy trips. I say "were" because they no longer exist and have moved much closer so the long road trips are gone for the Comets.
Thus, lodging costs are much lower for Utica as in many cases they just come back home and sleep in their own beds. Transportation costs are much lower and little sleeping is necessary on the bus. This cuts meal costs as well. The biggest plus is the multitude of ice time, video study, off ice weight and fitness workout time, and training room time these guys get instead of riding buses to get back home, then get sack time, and finally get an on ice practice session.
Those California teams are up and down the entire west coast. Let's not even mention Texas?
So Gaunce's equipment was the only glitch in 3 seasons? I think an NHL franchise has no problem suiting a guy up if he needs the gear and with today's gear I don't think he needs to work the gear into game shape. As to not playing them when they arrive, that's the coach's decision not the air time. They are fully capable of playing if needed as they play on the reverse travel to Utica and don't seem any worse for the wear. They even make A.M. practice on the mornings they return. Vancouver has a history of calling up Comets and not giving them a lot of game time. They are more often insurance against a further injury instead of being called up to actually replace the injured Canuck.
The biggest advantage of having your team in same city is that management has better oversight and facilities can be shared.
Would allow Benning, Desjardins be able to keep tabs on players and share insights and also things like goalie coaches, skills coaches etc
Would allow Benning, Desjardins be able to keep tabs on players and share insights and also things like goalie coaches, skills coaches etc
Would you like to explain where these "draft picks" are? Every draft pick the Canucks had worth a damn was in Utica. It will be the same this year.
Demko, Subban, LaBate, Cassels, Neill (couldn't make the roster last season with ECHL PTOs outplaying him in practice).
That's it! Gaunce may get sent down and Grenier and Friesen who are way past draft picks will have to be resigned as will former free agent Zalewski.
Sautner, Stecher, LaPlante, and Nilsson will probably be there as well, but they aren't draft picks.
That's 6 I'd call draft picks, 2 former drafts who still haven't made the Canucks, and 5 young players signed as free agents and I wouldn't be shocked if Neill and LaPlante start out in the ECHL. 3 of the 13 have yet to be resigned.
If I missed anyone, please update me.
Like every AHL team, veterans will be signed to carry out certain roles. This lineup has no #1 center, #1 D-man, go to shutdown anchor on D, and no real bona fide goal scorer anywhere in the lineup.
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There would be an outcry on these boards but not really anywhere else if the Nucks moved their shop. A change of towns might be good for the franchise and fans. It has been an ugly marriage for 45 years.
Horrible timing... the fan support for Vancouver is at a low point right now and likely not going up any time soon. That means there likely won't be too much interest in watching our AHL team, at least not enough to move it. If we're not selling out 'nucks games, what are the chances of us selling out AHL games? Sure ticket price are likely the reason 'nucks games aren't sold out but the support for the team still isn't high enough to sell out pacific coliseum.
Add to that the cost of travel (it'll cost 'nucks a lot more for road trips if the team is in Vancouver vs Utica), it doesn't make a lot of business sense to do the move.
From a pure hockey prospective, it might or might not be a good move...
Pros:
- Easy to call up prospects (same day in a lot of cases, tho if the team is on a road trip, it won't make any difference)
- Easy for management to keep track of development/watch prospects live
Cons:
- Doesn't make business sense (right now, it would've a few years ago and this is likely the most important issue)
For selfish reasons, i wouldn't mind this move because i could actually watch an AHL game live if i want to. I wouldn't get season tickets or anything but i would watch the odd game. Of course like i said, that becomes a business problem if everyone is like me and only wants to watch the odd game. There likely won't be close to the dedication to Vancouver's AHL team vs Utica since for a lot of fans, its their #1 team.
Just a side note, Vancouver giants reported had ~5100 fans per home game last season (although there were reports the actual # was closer to 3400). Assuming the similar pricing structure, i really doubt there will be much more turnout for an AHL team vs Giants.
Of course they weren't a very good team so that had an impact and Giants had much better turnouts when they were doing good (i think during 'nucks cup run or around that time, they were pretty much sold out or close to sold out every game). Basically Vancouver hockey support has close correlation to both how the team (the actual team, aka Giants) team is doing and how the 'nucks are doing. Since Vancouver is not doing so well, this is a pretty bad time to add another team. Also the cost for renting PC is likely more than the entire operating cost (minus salaries, since thats basically a fixed cost regardless of the move) for Utica Comets. The main reason the Giants are moving is its a lot cheaper for them to operate out of Langley for most of the season.
Add to that the cost of travel (it'll cost 'nucks a lot more for road trips if the team is in Vancouver vs Utica), it doesn't make a lot of business sense to do the move.
From a pure hockey prospective, it might or might not be a good move...
Pros:
- Easy to call up prospects (same day in a lot of cases, tho if the team is on a road trip, it won't make any difference)
- Easy for management to keep track of development/watch prospects live
Cons:
- Doesn't make business sense (right now, it would've a few years ago and this is likely the most important issue)
For selfish reasons, i wouldn't mind this move because i could actually watch an AHL game live if i want to. I wouldn't get season tickets or anything but i would watch the odd game. Of course like i said, that becomes a business problem if everyone is like me and only wants to watch the odd game. There likely won't be close to the dedication to Vancouver's AHL team vs Utica since for a lot of fans, its their #1 team.
Just a side note, Vancouver giants reported had ~5100 fans per home game last season (although there were reports the actual # was closer to 3400). Assuming the similar pricing structure, i really doubt there will be much more turnout for an AHL team vs Giants.
Of course they weren't a very good team so that had an impact and Giants had much better turnouts when they were doing good (i think during 'nucks cup run or around that time, they were pretty much sold out or close to sold out every game). Basically Vancouver hockey support has close correlation to both how the team (the actual team, aka Giants) team is doing and how the 'nucks are doing. Since Vancouver is not doing so well, this is a pretty bad time to add another team. Also the cost for renting PC is likely more than the entire operating cost (minus salaries, since thats basically a fixed cost regardless of the move) for Utica Comets. The main reason the Giants are moving is its a lot cheaper for them to operate out of Langley for most of the season.
Leave them where they are.
One thing I will say is that it is completely ridiculous that we can't watch every Utica game in this market in 2016. Or even ANY Utica games.
Even if they were tape-delayed at midnight instead of endless SportsCenter reruns, that would be more than OK.
One thing I will say is that it is completely ridiculous that we can't watch every Utica game in this market in 2016. Or even ANY Utica games.
Even if they were tape-delayed at midnight instead of endless SportsCenter reruns, that would be more than OK.
Rocko604
Sports will break your heart.
It is a no brainer to move the farm team here now that teams are shifting west. I was already in support of it kind of anyway. Utica seems like a good fan base, and I sure hope they don't lose an AHL team, but it is just a poor fit for us as a franchise. Ideally the management team or coaches should not have to go out of their way if they can and must deal with issues surrounding the system. It would be nice for players in the system not to have to make a 5.5-6 hour flight to have access to our infrasturture not to mention, how nice it is not to have to worry about emergency callups.
I think having the farm team close to home as possible is the way to go. If we could support it as a city, which I don't think we can, I would say play out of the same rink even.
I think having the farm team close to home as possible is the way to go. If we could support it as a city, which I don't think we can, I would say play out of the same rink even.
Don't like the idea one bit.
The reason they went to Utica in the first place was to get the increased practice time and less travel time. Its a developmental league, there's no need to sacrifice extra practice time and make the players travel so much more just to get the odd 4th line callup a little quicker.
The fan support is also a big unknown, the Giants being the best comparable and unless they have been memorial cup contenders their fan support has been marginal at best (the reason they are moving to Langley). So you're likely looking at Abbotsford as the destination, which after the Heat days the city hasn't been thrilled about the AHL. When the Heat begun operations they had to compensate teams for the additional travel costs of getting there, so I would assume business-wise its not the greatest investment. This would mean it would require significant backing from Canucks ownership, which with a 75 cent CAD and declining interest and season ticket buyers the Aquillini's can't be too thrilled about.
The reason they went to Utica in the first place was to get the increased practice time and less travel time. Its a developmental league, there's no need to sacrifice extra practice time and make the players travel so much more just to get the odd 4th line callup a little quicker.
The fan support is also a big unknown, the Giants being the best comparable and unless they have been memorial cup contenders their fan support has been marginal at best (the reason they are moving to Langley). So you're likely looking at Abbotsford as the destination, which after the Heat days the city hasn't been thrilled about the AHL. When the Heat begun operations they had to compensate teams for the additional travel costs of getting there, so I would assume business-wise its not the greatest investment. This would mean it would require significant backing from Canucks ownership, which with a 75 cent CAD and declining interest and season ticket buyers the Aquillini's can't be too thrilled about.
The reason they went to Utica in the first place was because our excellent farm organization in Winnipeg folded up and we failed to secure our plan to go to Abbotsford on time.
Yeah, AHL teams in NHL cities in Canada have pretty consistently struggled and been less viable than CHL franchises (overheads for CHL franchise being much lower obviously helps) and this market apparently can't even support a WHL franchise right now.
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