Confirmed with Link: Briere to Colorado for PAP + 2015 5th

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,347
31,514
I don't think it is conditioning so much as pure skating ability (or lack of it). PAP worked his ass off to get back after a couple knee injuries this year ahead of schedule. Somebody who doesn't put in the work off the ice doesn't do that. PAP is just naturally a very poor skater and has no defensive hockey sense.

That's true he did work hard to come back.

Defensively it's a no brainer why he didn't work under Roy, but what I can't figure out is why he looked like complete dog crap offensively for most of the season. He managed to put up a few points every now and then but he was a turnover machine most games, and routinely made very poor choices with the puck.

Very uncharacteristic from what we saw the previous season as his biggest strength, and I can't put my finger on what if anything in Roy's system it was that made it so tough for him in the offensive zone.

I can't imagine Roy with how communicative and detail oriented he was messed with him mentally. It started at the very beginning of the season and lasted too long for it to be just a funk too.

Was he just taxed mentally from trying to figure out where he should be defensively the prior 20 seconds or so? I don't get it.
 

Former Ladder

Thanks Noob Noob
Dec 31, 2013
1,491
56
United States
That's true he did work hard to come back.

Defensively it's a no brainer why he didn't work under Roy, but what I can't figure out is why he looked like complete dog crap offensively for most of the season. He managed to put up a few points every now and then but he was a turnover machine most games, and routinely made very poor choices with the puck.

Very uncharacteristic from what we saw the previous season as his biggest strength, and I can't put my finger on what if anything in Roy's system it was that made it so tough for him in the offensive zone.

I can't imagine Roy with how communicative and detail oriented he was messed with him mentally. It started at the very beginning of the season and lasted too long for it to be just a funk too.

Was he just taxed mentally from trying to figure out where he should be defensively the prior 20 seconds or so? I don't get it.

I think it was a few things:

1) The system works for stronger skaters than he is.

2) He started out on the third line and was probably mad about it.

3) I think he came into camp a little out of shape and wasn't in shape until ingury #1.

4) He always was lazy on the backcheck and maybe personality/role perspective conflicts with Roy.

All in all, I thought he was offensively gifted and could dangle but always played a lazy looking game, especially on defense. He was smart enough to be in the right places once he got there and had a good set of hands but just never worked hard enough outside of a few really good games this year.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,347
31,514
I think it was a few things:

1) The system works for stronger skaters than he is.

2) He started out on the third line and was probably mad about it.

3) I think he came into camp a little out of shape and wasn't in shape until ingury #1.

4) He always was lazy on the backcheck and maybe personality/role perspective conflicts with Roy.

All in all, I thought he was offensively gifted and could dangle but always played a lazy looking game, especially on defense. He was smart enough to be in the right places once he got there and had a good set of hands but just never worked hard enough outside of a few really good games this year.

See most of those things I think are true, but he'd be able to compensate for them to an extent and still not be a turnover machine most of the year. He may have had an issue with starting the season on the 3rd line, but he was playing with a highly touted 1st overall draft pick. It's not like he was on a grinder line.

That's where I start to wonder a bit about your issue #3 maybe being true, and he never really recovered.


I read somewhere about someone calculating the average speed of the top NHLers using their times in the speed contests at the All Star games. It broke down to about 28mph for the fastest guys, but that was the average speed of the lap. I don't know how accurate that is, but it probably at least puts us in the ball park for speed.

So say Duchene and Mack are 30 mph skaters at their top end. Next level guys like Landy, Stastny, or O'Reilly are 25 mph guys.

They can probably hit near their top speed a couple times during a shift, and then fall off just a bit after that due to fatigue.

Then there's PAP, who we'll say is a 20 mph skater. Again foregoing accuracy, it's just for the sake of argument. He's probably good for one, maybe two bursts at his top speed, but then I think his problem is he falls off a cliff after that.

That's where we get into conditioning. It's not just a matter of speed, it's how long can you maintain that speed, or near to it.

I have a feeling Iginla at this point in his career probably isn't that much better of a skater than PAP, and may have a similar top end speed. The difference will be that he's known to work very hard in the offseason to prepare himself.

I'd bet that he'll be about as good a skater as PAP, but hustle a lot more on the ice, and won't have the same issues with speed because he won't fall off a cliff after one or two bursts. He'll still manage to not be a big liability despite skating hard and trying to play a 200 foot game, the way Landy does.

When PAP tried to play a 200 foot game, I think it wore him out. So his entire 200 foot game suffered. Just a guess.
 
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Avsboy

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
32,243
16,657
It was a terrible move. HFBoards Avs fans could never write "papapapapapapapapapapapapap" again. And that hurts.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,347
31,514
Yea they wouldn't have the flexibility they do now so that likely means no Soderberg as a replacement for ROR, they have to go cheap. They'd have to hope Grigo hits his potential, and then still need to find a good defensive guy for cheap to replace that element of ROR's game.

Either that or they don't have the room to look for the D or other additions they plan on.
 

Burnaby_Joe*

Guest
I remember my Habs' friends laughing at me about this trade saying we were robbed. Good times!
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
Count me in.

Although I still don't get why we couldn't get more from him after the season he had with Duchy.


He was a season away from scoring 43 in 48 and still managed to score 33 in 55 when he clearly was a bit hobbled.


I also do not get how he has sucked so much with MTL.
Ok. If he hated playing for Roy, he probably is about to commit a hatecrime on Therrien, but still.

He is only 32. Something went terribly wrong and I can't figure out what it was. Maybe it was that injury slowing him down by that bit that made him work as an one-dimensional but good complimentary player.

Makes me a bit sad. PAP - Duchene was the only good thing during that abysmal lockout season (aside from getting Mac of course).
 

m0ngr31

Guest
Count me in.

Although I still don't get why we couldn't get more from him after the season he had with Duchy.


He was a season away from scoring 43 in 48 and still managed to score 33 in 55 when he clearly was a bit hobbled.


I also do not get how he has sucked so much with MTL.
Ok. If he hated playing for Roy, he probably is about to commit a hatecrime on Therrien, but still.

He is only 32. Something went terribly wrong and I can't figure out what it was. Maybe it was that injury slowing him down by that bit that made him work as an one-dimensional but good complimentary player.

Makes me a bit sad. PAP - Duchene was the only good thing during that abysmal lockout season (aside from getting Mac of course).

Came here to write pretty much this.
 

Skip2myBordyloo

Stay the course
Apr 7, 2010
10,800
402
This trade has turned from a loss to a big win with the added flexibility. I'll still maintain we were worse off without him last season.
 

m0ngr31

Guest
This trade has turned from a loss to a big win with the added flexibility. I'll still maintain we were worse off without him last season.

We were, but I guess in the long run we'll be better since he wouldn't have been the difference to get us into the playoffs.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

Registered User
Mar 31, 2002
49,624
3,568
Colorado
Parenteau is a giant floater. There's no way we were worse off without him. He only looks good on bad teams because he can get a lot of ice time and put up points. He's useless when he isn't doing that.
 

m0ngr31

Guest
Briere sitting in the pressbox < PAP floating around.

In that way we were worse off.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

Registered User
Mar 31, 2002
49,624
3,568
Colorado
Briere sitting in the pressbox < PAP floating around.

In that way we were worse off.
Briere sat in the press box for guys like Everberg, Rendulic, and Hishon a lot of the time. I'd rather that then have PAP for another year.

In case you were wondering, PAP did a lot of sitting in the press box himself this year.
 

LieutenantDangle

Barry McKockner
Oct 28, 2014
4,244
1,445
'Merica
Watching pap slay it with duchy a couple years back along with how friendly and personable he was made me hate the trade because I trap liked the guy but man did he play terrible that final season for us. Still really like him as a good character guy though
 

Frenchy

Administrator
Sep 16, 2006
26,263
9,665
϶(°o°)ϵ
Count me in.

Although I still don't get why we couldn't get more from him after the season he had with Duchy.


He was a season away from scoring 43 in 48 and still managed to score 33 in 55 when he clearly was a bit hobbled.


I also do not get how he has sucked so much with MTL.
Ok. If he hated playing for Roy, he probably is about to commit a hatecrime on Therrien, but still.

He is only 32. Something went terribly wrong and I can't figure out what it was. Maybe it was that injury slowing him down by that bit that made him work as an one-dimensional but good complimentary player.

Makes me a bit sad. PAP - Duchene was the only good thing during that abysmal lockout season (aside from getting Mac of course).

Briere sitting in the pressbox < PAP floating around.

In that way we were worse off.

Brière was also sitting in the press box in MTL , so MTL or CoL it's pretty much the same for him . That's one of the reason why i though that MTL won the deal , back then . Brière wasnt even playing with the Habs and we end up getting him in return for PAP who had a great first season for us playing with Duchene.

It was a head scratcher for me , for a long time
 

Metallo

NWOBHM forever \m/
Feb 14, 2010
18,424
15,080
Québec, QC
The timing of the trade was bad. No GM wants to take on salary before free agency. We could have waited to trade him during the season to a GM that is panicking and looking for scoring.
 

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