Brent Seabrook

[TLEH]

He seems to be playing pretty well this season. Putting up 13 points so far and playing 23 minutes a night. Playing at about a 1.87 p/60 rate in all situations.

BUT, he and TVR seem to be getting a lot of easy competition this year. My advanced stat reading isn't the best, but his %ZSO is 6.22, which is higher than TVR's even. He's got a huge contract until 38 and albeit he seems to have played well this year, he seems to have slid to an almost overpaid #4, as TVR is taking tougher comp and playing only 3 minutes less than Seabs.

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[BK]

He seems to be playing pretty well this season. Putting up 13 points so far and playing 23 minutes a night. Playing at about a 1.87 p/60 rate in all situations.

BUT, he and TVR seem to be getting a lot of easy competition this year. My advanced stat reading isn't the best, but his %ZSO is 6.22, which is higher than TVR's even. He's got a huge contract until 38 and albeit he seems to have played well this year, he seems to have slid to an almost overpaid #4, as TVR is taking tougher comp and playing only 3 minutes less than Seabs.

While I agree he gets the easier match up I completely disagree that he has slide to a #4 dman. He is no where close to a #4 dman. He is clearly a #2 dman and would be a #1 on a decent amount of teams. Remember Q plays the matchups hard and we have a Norris Dman in Keith along with a defensive stud in Hammer.

His deal is really not that bad considering the deals that some other dman have been given of late. Jeff Petry got 5.5 AAV. Seabrook could have got close to 8 AAV on the open market. I do think the last 2-3 years could be a crap shoot but you never know if he will fall apart or last. If you want to see a bad deal that is 6.875 AAV look at Kesler.

 

[clydesdale line]

Considering he had to basically carry a rookie as his defensive partner (Svedberg) and was the reason, along with Kane, our PP was even average.. he's been pretty damn good this year carrying the defensive core without Keith most of the year. Hjalmarsson is playing better recently, but let's not act like he's been playing like his usual self all year. TVR has been great after his first couple of games.

 

[TLEH]

While I agree he gets the easier match up I completely disagree that he has slide to a #4 dman. He is no where close to a #4 dman. He is clearly a #2 dman and would be a #1 on a decent amount of teams. Remember Q plays the matchups hard and we have a Norris Dman in Keith along with a defensive stud in Hammer.

His deal is really not that bad considering the deals that some other dman have been given of late. Jeff Petry got 5.5 AAV. Seabrook could have got close to 8 AAV on the open market. I do think the last 2-3 years could be a crap shoot but you never know if he will fall apart or last. If you want to see a bad deal that is 6.875 AAV look at Kesler.

I feel like Hammer is the #2. But I agree with everything else you said and as well as being tied down by Svedberg

 

[Bubba88]

Seabrook was a #1 D while Keith was out.
Seabrook is a good D and a true #1 Defender.

 

[zac]

Seabrook was a #1 D while Keith was out.
Seabrook is a good D and a true #1 Defender.

No he's not. But when he's playing well, like he is now, he is a good/great #2.

The problem with Seabs is that he has been inconsistent in the defensive end, and was often a liability there the last few years. Offensively he is our best offensive zone defensemen, as he jumps plays and creeps into shooting lanes very well. I still think that contract was a huge mistake, as I highly doubt he provides the value for 3 years, let alone 7, but at least he's playing a lot better than he did last year.

Everyone knows I'm not his biggest fan, but he's been among the least of our worries this season. I hope it keeps up.

 

[Taze em]

No he's not. But when he's playing well, like he is now, he is a good/great #2.

The problem with Seabs is that he has been inconsistent in the defensive end, and was often a liability there the last few years. Offensively he is our best offensive zone defensemen, as he jumps plays and creeps into shooting lanes very well. I still think that contract was a huge mistake, as I highly doubt he provides the value for 3 years, let alone 7, but at least he's playing a lot better than he did last year.

Everyone knows I'm not his biggest fan, but he's been among the least of our worries this season. I hope it keeps up.

Zac, just curious... could you name one player in each of the following categories:

-great #1D
-average #1D
-bad/low level #1D

-great #2D
-avg #2D
-bad/ low level #2D

 

[Taze em]

Zac, just curious... could you name one player in each of the following categories:

-great #1D Keith, Doughty
-average #1D Seabrook, Suter
-bad/low level #1D Byfuglien

-great #2D Klingberg
-avg #2D Sekera
-bad/ low level #2D Brian Campbell

mine.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Seabrook is still the same Seabrook he has always been. A #1 pairing D who steps up his game when needed.

 

[BobbyJet]

No he's not. But when he's playing well, like he is now, he is a good/great #2.

The problem with Seabs is that he has been inconsistent in the defensive end, and was often a liability there the last few years. Offensively he is our best offensive zone defensemen, as he jumps plays and creeps into shooting lanes very well. I still think that contract was a huge mistake, as I highly doubt he provides the value for 3 years, let alone 7, but at least he's playing a lot better than he did last year.

Everyone knows I'm not his biggest fan, but he's been among the least of our worries this season. I hope it keeps up.

Laughable that suddenly Seabs is not that bad after the constant criticism that has come from you.

I see also that Daley is your next fall guy on Hawks' defense. Shall we prepare ourselves?

 

[zac]

Zac, just curious... could you name one player in each of the following categories:

-great #1D Keith, Doughty, McDonough, Hedberg (between great and avg.), Karlsson (so elite offensively that he goes here), Subban,
-average #1D Weber, (arguably higher), Josi, Suter, Girardi, Chara (the way he's playing this year...maybe average), Carlson, Giordano (this year is a spot below) , Vlasic (arguably a spot above...regardless of where he plays he has always been solid to great...no down years), OEL (still don't think he's consistently proven himself), Ekblad (stud), Hammer
-bad/low level #1D Kronwall (always thought he was overrated), Letang, Burns (based on minutes...terrible defender),.

-great #2D Brodie, Klingberg, Seabs (when playing like he is now), Larsson, Hamonic, Alzner, Klingberg (if he keeps this up he likely belongs up top)
-avg #2D Brodin (somewhere between here and great), Markov (somewhere between here and great, this year he has been very good), Seth Jones, Gudbranson
-bad/ low level #2D - Leddy (considering his slot the last few years), Bouwmeester (between here and average), Campbell (migrates between here and average)


Better yet, here's a pretty comprehensive list on where I rank many of the top defenders. There are some teams, like the Toronto's, that are SO bad that you can't evaluate any one player really well. Some of the above may be 2nd pairing guys who I feel are a notch above, while a few are vice versa.

My criteria for a number one is someone who is either a pure shutdown defenseman against top competition, and or someone who is an elite offensive contributor who isn't an absolute sieve. The low ranking guys are those who are slotting on those pairings, and/or get the minutes (like a Letang) to rank as a "top pairing" guy.

Outside of those that are listed as bad/low level guys, I would take most of the other players above Seabs. They are either better, more consistent, or are younger/have a higher ceiling.

To be fair there are a lot of teams that don't have "#1 guys" even though they have to have guys that play those minutes. Seabs has been the 3rd best/most important Dman on this team for quite a while and despite having a solid year so far, he hasn't had consecutive great seasons for quite some time. If he could keep up this level of play I would be ecstatic with it, but his penchant for inconsistency, age, and body type make that extremely unlikely.

 

[zac]

Laughable that suddenly Seabs is not that bad after the constant criticism that has come from you.

I see also that Daley is your next fall guy on Hawks' defense. Shall we prepare ourselves?

This year I've hardly criticized that guy. He's been good. Last year he was a ****ign train wreck and you'd have to be blind or biased not to admit that.

Seabs has deserved EVERY bit of criticism I've heaped upon him. It's early, but so far Daley has been a turd. Have to call it like it is.

 

[BK]

This year I've hardly criticized that guy. He's been good. Last year he was a ****ign train wreck and you'd have to be blind or biased not to admit that.

Seabs has deserved EVERY bit of criticism I've heaped upon him. It's early, but so far Daley has been a turd. Have to call it like it is.

Not every bit. Just like everyone who is praised or trashed on here no one deserves all of it. Everyone has their player they defend and trash because that is the nature of sports. I know for the longest time I was overly critical of Versteeg but I have the tendency to defend Bickell (because I have hope he can get back to what he was).

 

[x Tame Impala]

Seabrook was nothing short of a #1 Dman in Keith's absence

 

[BobbyJet]

Not every bit. Just like everyone who is praised or trashed on here no one deserves all of it. Everyone has their player they defend and trash because that is the nature of sports. I know for the longest time I was overly critical of Versteeg but I have the tendency to defend Bickell (because I have hope he can get back to what he was).

There were more than a few instances when Seabs was fine and Zac was all over him like a cheap suit. Has he been better this year to date? Yes, but he hasn't been nearly as bad as was insinuated time and time again by this poster.

And I might add that Seabrook was not only good in Keith's absence - he also demonstrated the leadership ability once again that he seldom gets credit for, and never by his critics.

As for Daley: Let's not jump to any conclusions yet, but if anyone is expecting him to suddenly be a defensive juggernaut with Hawks, it ain't gonna happen. That needs to be expected and hopefully the offensive good will heavily outweigh the defensive bad. That seems to be Q's approach and I agree with it.

 

[JaegerDice]

Seabrook has been really inconsistent since 2012.

He was questionable through the season in 2013, great in the 2013 playoffs.

Bad in 2014, even worse in the 2014 playoffs.

Better but still questionable in the 2015 regular season, great in the 2015 playoffs.

Thus far this regular season, he's been great. It's been less than 20 games. I'm still kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop....

I have no problem with the cap hit of his new contract, only the length.

 

[Bubba88]

-great #1D Keith, Doughty, McDonough, Hedberg (between great and avg.), Karlsson (so elite offensively that he goes here), Subban,
-average #1D Weber, (arguably higher), Josi, Suter, Girardi, Chara (the way he's playing this year...maybe average), Carlson, Giordano (this year is a spot below) , Vlasic (arguably a spot above...regardless of where he plays he has always been solid to great...no down years), OEL (still don't think he's consistently proven himself), Ekblad (stud), Hammer
-bad/low level #1D Kronwall (always thought he was overrated), Letang, Burns (based on minutes...terrible defender),.

-great #2D Brodie, Klingberg, Seabs (when playing like he is now), Larsson, Hamonic, Alzner, Klingberg (if he keeps this up he likely belongs up top)
-avg #2D Brodin (somewhere between here and great), Markov (somewhere between here and great, this year he has been very good), Seth Jones, Gudbranson
-bad/ low level #2D - Leddy (considering his slot the last few years), Bouwmeester (between here and average), Campbell (migrates between here and average)

that explains a lot...

 

[Hawkaholic]

Letang better than Seabrook? yeah, OK.

Seabrook on the same level as Alzner, Hamonic, and Larsson? yeah OK.

 

[LordKOTL]

No real complaints about Seabs this year. Any time he looked bad this season, so did everyone on the ice not named Kane or Panarin.

 

[zac]

Letang better than Seabrook? yeah, OK.

Seabrook on the same level as Alzner, Hamonic, and Larsson? yeah OK.

Letang isn't better. The bad guys are those who play #1 minutes but aren't true #1 guys. It's not that hard to figure out.