Brendan Shanahan vs Keith Tkachuk

[Rabid Ranger]

If we were comparing Tkachuk to, say, Bill Guerin, the character issues/hothead behaviour don't outweigh the talent differential. Tkachuk was obviously an elite player.

But comparing him to Brendan Shanahan, it's just no contest. Shanahan was every bit as good as Tkachuk at the offensive/physical part of the game while being a better defensive and team player and having none of the distractions. And then killed it in the playoffs.

You must have missed Shanahan's St. Louis years. Plenty of off-ice distractions. Not exactly sterling character.

 

[Hobnobs]

You must have missed Shanahan's St. Louis years. Plenty of off-ice distractions. Not exactly sterling character.

Plenty? Also guys in their early 20s is usually more immature in their behaviour than older guys. Tkachuk however were still a POS after he turned 26.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

resuscitating this thread because i just heard darren dreger tell an interesting anecdote from the early 90s on the radio. when the jets named veteran kris king captain, someone in the press scrum asks tkachuk what his opinion. he says "everybody in the room knows who the real leader is."

great teammate

 

[Peter Tosh]

This reminds me of the threads that propose Turgeon as a HHOF candidate. For us who followed NHL in the 90s, few would choose Tkachuk just as few would induct Pierre Turgeon in the HHOF. Cherry picking stats 20 years later doesn’t change this

 

[FMichael]

Shanahan = 656 goals, 1354 points in 1524 games
Per game average = .43 goals, .89 points

Tkachuk = 538 goals, 1065 points in 1201 games
Per game average = .45 goals, .89 points


Who was better in their peak/prime?

Shanny hands down...As a teammate - your only concern was him stealing your gf/wife...

 

[tarheelhockey]

In terms of putting numbers on the board, I'm actually not sure who I'd take here. Peak Tkachuk was a REALLY good goal scorer. I have a feeling if we put the two players in identical circumstances the numbers might surprise us.

That being said, the answer here is Shanahan if you're trying to build an actual hockey team. He had his own fair share of character concerns, but he was quite easily the better man to have in your foxhole.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

In terms of putting numbers on the board, I'm actually not sure who I'd take here. Peak Tkachuk was a REALLY good goal scorer. I have a feeling if we put the two players in identical circumstances the numbers might surprise us.

one way to even the playing field is to cut off shanahan's career before the 1992-'93 season, which was tkachuk's rookie season.

shanahan: 1,162 games, 535 goals, 1,071 points

tkachuk's entire career: 1,210 games, 538 goals, 1,065 points

that's cutting off shanahan's first five seasons, including when he made the canada cup team—

Season	Age	GP	G	A	PTS
1987-88	19	65	7	19	26
1988-89	20	68	22	28	50
1989-90	21	73	30	42	72
1990-91	22	75	29	37	66
1991-92	23	80	33	36	69

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

then ask the question of whether tkachuk ever played without offensive talent surrounding him. in winnipeg, he has selanne, zhamnov and steen, and the puck-moving trio of housley, olausson, and numminen. after selanne leaves, the jets pick up shanahan's old center craig janney for tkachuk's line (13 games, 7 goals, 13 assists, 20 points). when they move to phoenix, he gets roenick. st. louis is an embarrassment of riches where he gets to pick from demitra and doug weight, with one or both of pronger and macinnis on the back end.

and i know adjusted stats aren't perfect but tkachuk's absolute best year was 94 adjusted points. shanahan's bests are two seasons of 92 adjusted.

 

[Staniowski]

Tkachuk was definitely better than Shanahan offensively. Tkachuk was a better skater and more dangerous.

At their respective bests, Shanahan had a more refined game; and Tkachuk a more dynamic game.

 

[psycat]

Tkachuk get's underrated because he liked McDonalds, Shanahan get's overrated because he played on more successful teams. Shanahan got the girl, Tkachuk got the Rocket. Pretty much a wash.

 

[JackSlater]

I am expecting to see more posts incoming from people who didn't follow hockey at the time they played and declare them basically equal. I don't think that Shanahan is massively ahead of Tkachuk, but I also don't need to think hard about who I'd want either.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Shanahan was a guy you wanted on your team in the playoffs. Tkachuk as great he was in RS always disappointed there. That's not to say Shanahan was a monster in the playoffs but he was decently good atleast.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don't think that Shanahan is massively ahead of Tkachuk, but I also don't need to think hard about who I'd want either.

This is pretty much where I'm at with it. Shanahan is the clear winner, but not by a huge margin.

I think they're actually pretty close. Similar to Tkachuk, Shanahan had his off ice stuff as well (chasing money out of NJ, Janney's wife, wanting out of Hartford, allegedly the real reason he left Detroit was because he didn't want to play for Babcock), and at the end of his Red Wings tenure he had a similar reputation of playoff disappointment.

That said, I kind of wonder how much Shanahan's "victory" over Tkachuk has to do with him as a player vs. having to do with him playing on more to much more talented teams than Tkachuk. Maybe 50/50? Like if from 96-97 to 05-06 you were to completely swap Tkachuk and Shanahan, does Shanahan's career in that time span look much different with the Coyotes and Blues and/or drastically change those teams results in that time frame vs. what Tkachuk actually did and how those teams finished? And vice versa if Tkachuk is on those stacked Red Wings teams? I want to say "yes definitely" but somehow feel like it wouldn't be that different.

IMO and as other have pointed out, I think Shanahan's edge comes from being a bit more effective in other areas of the ice, and while he was just as physical and intimidating, was a bit more disciplined in his approach.

It could just be a bit of Red Wings homerism in me, but from a teammate perspective I for an unknown reason don't see Tkachuk clotheslining a Patrick Roy skating full speed to get into an ongoing scrum.

 

[sr edler]

Shanahan gets slightly overrated sometimes but he's still better than Tkachuk.

resuscitating this thread because i just heard darren dreger tell an interesting anecdote from the early 90s on the radio. when the jets named veteran kris king captain, someone in the press scrum asks tkachuk what his opinion. he says "everybody in the room knows who the real leader is."

great teammate

What points in the direction of this ["everybody in the room knows who the real leader is"] being somewhat of an actual practical truth though is those Jets teams floating/sinking in the playoffs, how it mirrors his character. What if a young rambunctious Tkachuk just came in post Olympics and took over the locker room in some sense? Or at least brought in some kind of distress. I wonder if that has ever happened on any team, a young big bruising skill guy with big dose of confidence and a crispy (very soon turning toxic) attitude towards his veteran teammates taking over the locker room on a short basis? Or perhaps two or three new guys cut from the same kind of cloth?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

does anyone have a clear memory of the blues in the playoffs in the first half of the 90s?

the only series i remember is the first round of 1995, when shanahan had a natural hat trick in the second period of game 4 to tie the series almost all by himself. he had all four of st louis' first four points in that 5-2 win. then he broke his leg in game 5 (after already getting a goal and an assist), which vancouver ended up winning in OT en route to taking the series in 7.

from what i can see on the stats sheet, shanahan's first two st louis playoffs were disappointing. he seems to have been pretty quiet and was only fourth on his team in scoring both years (a combined 17 games, 6 goals, 12 points). but i didn't really follow those series because they weren't my division.

in his last two st louis years, there wasn't a playoff game he played in that he didn't get at least a point in. 9 games, 6 goals, 16 points.

but anyway, i don't remember shanahan's playoff rep up to '93. would there have been the perception at least early on that he didn't do enough in the playoffs?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

What points in the direction of this ["everybody in the room knows who the real leader is"] being somewhat of an actual practical truth though is those Jets teams floating/sinking in the playoffs, how it mirrors his character. What if a young rambunctious Tkachuk just came in post Olympics and took over the locker room in some sense? Or at least brought in some kind of distress. I wonder if that has ever happened on any team, a young big bruising skill guy with big dose of confidence and a crispy (very soon turning toxic) attitude towards his veteran teammates taking over the locker room on a short basis? Or perhaps two or three new guys cut from the same kind of cloth?

i'm guessing it probably was true. but imo you still don't undermine and humiliate your captain in the press like that. i mean seriously, who would do that?

i remember tkachuk's first playoffs. he was a total handful, hit everything in sight, and that energy was infectious, making that jets team play bigger than they ever had before. then pavel bure took over and tabaracci turned into a pumpkin and that was that.



and of course there was also this



(i actually don't remember the sequence of events, but based on the evidence my guess is pavel's "weasel power" slew foot on tkachuk must have also been in game 5, because it's clearly game 7 that the scoreboard is taunting don cherry. you can tell by the olausson penalty also on the board. it's really too bad the yt video of game 5 doesn't show us more but the box score tells us that bure gets a charging penalty at 12:42 of the second, after he has already put up four points and been on the ice for 5/6 canucks goals, while tkachuk takes a high sticking and 10 minute misconduct, apparently for an altercation with robert dirk, a minute and a half later.)

 

[Staniowski]

As with many of these player comparisons, the correct answer is that it depends. It depends on the time, it depends on the style and makeup of the team.

Shanahan, I think, was a smarter player and made fewer mistakes than Tkachuk. So, it would probably be best to take him over the long haul.

But, Tkachuk was a better scorer (in an 11 year period in the middle of their careers, Tkachuk had the higher ppg in 8 of the seasons, Shanahan in 3). These ppg numbers match what I remember, Tkachuk, at his best, was more dynamic than Shanahan.

Having said that, I didn't like either of these players.

------------------

There's a lot of talk about the off-ice stuff with both players - I remember hearing/reading that Shanahan was very unpopular with his teammates, particularly in Detroit. Does anybody have any info on this?

 

[JackSlater]

There's a lot of talk about the off-ice stuff with both players - I remember hearing/reading that Shanahan was very unpopular with his teammates, particularly in Detroit. Does anybody have any info on this?

Never heard anything about issues with teammates in Detroit. I think that Shanahan's baggage comes from his stints before Detroit.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Found this old SI article (THE BOOK ON BRENDAN AN NHL STAR WHO GOES IN FOR ROUGH STUFF AND POETRY? YES, DETROIT'S BRENDAN SHANAHAN IS AN ODD CHARACTER) from shortly after Detroit acquired Shanahan that offered this tid bit:

Arguably Keith Tkachuk of the
Phoenix Coyotes and John LeClair of the Philadelphia Flyers
surpass Shanahan as the game's premier power left wings,

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'll take: