Brendan Shanahan, Mark Hunter, Kyle Dubas

[BlueBaron]

Adding Burke to this management group would be fantastic. Sean Burke is an excellent evaluater of goaltenders, and fantastic at working with them.

Wonder if the Leafs would consider carrying two Assistant GM's, Dubas and Burke.

I think that would be rushing Burke a bit, better to give him a meaningful role with the Marlies as well as a Goalie coach.

 

[Cor]

I think that would be rushing Burke a bit, better to give him a meaningful role with the Marlies as well as a Goalie coach.

He doesn't want to be a goalie coach.

He'll likely be something like "Director of Goaltending Personnel and Special Assistant to the GM"

That's my best guess anyway

 

[BlueBaron]

He doesn't want to be a goalie coach.

He'll likely be something like "Director of Goaltending Personnel and Special Assistant to the GM"

That's my best guess anyway

I hear you, but he is one of the best at that. It will be difficult for him to divorce himself from that role until he has proven himself in another area.

 

[ACC1224]

Adding Burke to this management group would be fantastic. Sean Burke is an excellent evaluater of goaltenders, and fantastic at working with them.

Wonder if the Leafs would consider carrying two Assistant GM's, Dubas and Burke.

More Burkes the better.

 

[SprDaVE]

I wasn't sure about adding Sean Burke to replace Rick St-Croix, who's done a fairly a good job to be perfectly honest.

But if we are adding Sean Burke in a managerial role, I think that's fine.

Who knows how good of a move it is though. I'm sure he's a smart dude.

 

[bobber]

Never start something by telling people they have to calm down. Fact is, most of us are calm. Its just a hockey site dude, who really gives a crap what you and others think? I know I don't.

As for you having "confidence" that they will do something, what proof or evidence do you have that they have the ability to do that?

Calculate the amount of NHL games they have together that they have done a rebuild anywhere in the NHL?

I will help you calculate that.....the answer is zero.

I am sorry, but I will wait until I see proof instead of having blind faith that they will do the right thing,, because they have yet to prove it anywhere.

Could be a waste of another 5 freaking years.

Good post! Hunter has shown he knows junior players. Dubas studied numbers. Shanny talked a good story giving out suspensions. The proof of the extent of their genius will be proven in five years.
.

 

[Pyrophorus]

If Detroit misses, do you want Babcock still?

 

[SprDaVE]

If Detroit misses, do you want Babcock still?

Why not? He isn't a miracle worker and likely won't make us a contender in our current state but at least brings a wealth of respect and his experience level is off the charts. How he was able to keep Detroit in a playoff/contending role for so long despite losing a lot of talent (to injuries, retirement and free agency) over the years is pretty amazing.

With that said, I certainly wouldn't beg him or whatever. I think we can find a competent coach with or without Babcock. We just need to find the right guy, and he's out there.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Detroit misses, do you want Babcock still?

There are going to be a lot of coaching changes, he's on the radar, but I would go with Hitchcock first myself.

 

[613Leafer]

If Detroit misses, do you want Babcock still?

Of course. Look at how much they've managed to squeeze out of mid-rounders, guys like Hudler, Filpulla, Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, etc. This isn't just scouting, it's also development and organizational philosophy, which Babcock could help carry over here. Though Babcock is actually known for scouting while out on road trips, so he is involved in that as well for Detroit to some extent.

Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg became elite two-way players under his tutelage. We need somebody that can take raw talent like that and help mould it into elite players, specifically elite two-way players that are committed to a strong team first philosophy.

If Detroit misses the playoffs, I'd say it's largely due to goaltending.
Team save percentage: 20th
Team Possession: 2nd
PP: 2nd
PK: 19th
PP + PK = 104.8% (100%+ means above average special teams)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Of course. Look at how much they've managed to squeeze out of mid-rounders, guys like Hudler, Filpulla, Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, etc. This isn't just scouting, it's also development and organizational philosophy, which Babcock could help carry over here. Though Babcock is actually known for scouting while out on road trips, so he is involved in that as well for Detroit to some extent.

Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg became elite two-way players under his tutelage. We need somebody that can take raw talent like that and help mould it into elite players, specifically elite two-way players that are committed to a strong team first philosophy.

I would be interested but I wouldn't sell the farm on Babcock. There are going to be a lot of choices this summer. Anyone can do the job.

 

[TLeafsFan]

I would be interested but I wouldn't sell the farm on Babcock. There are going to be a lot of choices this summer. Anyone can do the job.

MLSE can sell one farm on Babcock. They have many of them. This is also a farm that won't cost them any livestock or crops.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

If Detroit misses, do you want Babcock still?

Yes, why wouldn't they? He's probably the best coach in the NHL right now and he has a good track record to prove it. They should be onto him this offseason.

 

[ACC1224]

If Detroit misses, do you want Babcock still?

Absolutely.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Yes on Babcock.

He is looking for new challenges why not right at the beginning of a rebuild. Hell, they may even challenge for a playoff spot with him at the helm. If they don't fans will be fine as long as we play the kids.

 

[WillNyeTheHockeyGuy]

He is looking for new challenges why not right at the beginning of a rebuild. Hell, they may even challenge for a playoff spot with him at the helm. If they don't fans will be fine as long as we play the kids.

I hope the word "playoffs" will not come to our mouths for next season. No more false hope. Let's just do things right.

 

[tolwyn]

He is looking for new challenges why not right at the beginning of a rebuild. Hell, they may even challenge for a playoff spot with him at the helm. If they don't fans will be fine as long as we play the kids.

Competing for the playoffs is exactly what we don't need.

 

[613Leafer]

I hope the word "playoffs" will not come to our mouths for next season. No more false hope. Let's just do things right.

Not necessarily.

Our management team shouldnt be gunning for the playoffs (i.e. Short-term thinking / classic Leafs moves) and should be focused on moving out some of our core, creating capspace, bringing in low-risk veterans, and building up our future assets.

The most likely result of that is us finishing bottom 5-10, BUT the games stilll need to be played, and surprises do happen. At least in that scenario, if we are competing for a playoff spot, it will be because multiple of our younger players broke out and were having good/great years (Monahan + Gaudreau + Brodie as comparisons from Calgary this season) as opposed to making the playoffs as a capmaxed but average team.

If we make the playoffs because of youth breaking out, that's a good thing. It means we dont necessarily NEED multiple high draft picks, because a young emerging core would be appearing, which through good asset management could be solidified into a stronger core in the coming years.

I dont want to squeak into 8th place on the backs of a hot season from Kessel/Bozak, but Im fine squeaking into the playoffs if we've moved out some combination of Kessel + Bozak + Phaneuf + etc, which would solidify our farm into being one of the better prospect systems in the league, and then making the playoffs due to breakout seasons from multiple of Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri, Holland, Bernier, Panik, etc. Very very unlikely mind you, but i wont be shouting at my TV if that happens, especially with Nylander + one of Strome/Marner/Hanifin + trade returns from above players coming up the pipeline.

 

[ACC1224]

I hope the word "playoffs" will not come to our mouths for next season. No more false hope. Let's just do things right.

Competing for the playoffs is exactly what we don't need.

Couple of odd sentiments.

How can a young rebuilding Team not be helped by playing competitive games?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

People gotta calm down. Let me ask you something. Do you think these guys are idiots?

I don't think so. Everyone in the hockey world acknowledges these guys know what they are doing. They have proven it. Not Shanny, but he's not stupid. He excelled with the NHL evaluating players, how they think, their actions, etc. Shanny almost always got it right.

Forget Nonis. He will eventually be let go. We don't know when but at some point.

Those 3, plus the new head coach and possibly another member to the management team, will be guiding the team for the next 10 years or so. They are not even a full season on the job. In the cap world real change is slow moving. I am as impatient and pissed as most here, but we just gotta let them manage on their timeframe.

I think there are real signs of a proper rebuild coming and I have confidence in these guys to make smart decisions.

It's real ugly right now but when you are a Leaf fan long enough you realize that a couple months left of one season is like a drop in the bucket really. We'll barely remember it.

The Leafs need a big draft though or this was a waste of time. They need picks. Now. Good ones!

There was another post that stated that Shanny was looking at each potential cause for failure one at a time, making an adjustment to that one thing, and going through a step-by-step process of elimination in determining the biggest causes for our failures and making the adjustments.

If he is doing this, its actually a practical and sage way of going about it. If he has the organization's backing and timeline for all of these methodical steps, then its an even better/important thing.

Otherwise, we've been down this path before with several previous management groups, and the wait and see attitude is warranted.

 

[Slot]

He doesn't want to be a goalie coach.

He'll likely be something like "Director of Goaltending Personnel and Special Assistant to the GM"

That's my best guess anyway

Isn't that the equivalent of the local grocery changing the cashier's job title to sales executive?

 

[hfman]

People gotta calm down. Let me ask you something. Do you think these guys are idiots?

I don't think so. Everyone in the hockey world acknowledges these guys know what they are doing. They have proven it. Not Shanny, but he's not stupid. He excelled with the NHL evaluating players, how they think, their actions, etc. Shanny almost always got it right.

Forget Nonis. He will eventually be let go. We don't know when but at some point.

Those 3, plus the new head coach and possibly another member to the management team, will be guiding the team for the next 10 years or so. They are not even a full season on the job. In the cap world real change is slow moving. I am as impatient and pissed as most here, but we just gotta let them manage on their timeframe.

I think there are real signs of a proper rebuild coming and I have confidence in these guys to make smart decisions.

It's real ugly right now but when you are a Leaf fan long enough you realize that a couple months left of one season is like a drop in the bucket really. We'll barely remember it.

The Leafs need a big draft though or this was a waste of time. They need picks. Now. Good ones!

it's all good but you could have posted this identical topic years back when Burke came in... and before that when JFJ came in... and before that when Quinn came in... in other words we've seen this story many times before and you're re-hashing what we've already seen for the last 20 years. To be all excited when new management comes in is the norm, and lots of fans are blindfolded by it, thinking 'yeah I have confidence in this new management group, I really believe they will take us to the top, have patience!!'. Seen it before.. many many times. Not sure of your age but maybe this is your first dance, which explains your enthusiasm. But don't be surprised when fans who've already seen this 'gameplan' before are just a tad...cynical.

 

[nsleaf]

Competing for the playoffs is exactly what we don't need.

One step at a time.

 

[Daisy Jane]

it's all good but you could have posted this identical topic years back when Burke came in... and before that when JFJ came in... and before that when Quinn came in... in other words we've seen this story many times before and you're re-hashing what we've already seen for the last 20 years. To be all excited when new management comes in is the norm, and lots of fans are blindfolded by it, thinking 'yeah I have confidence in this new management group, I really believe they will take us to the top, have patience!!'. Seen it before.. many many times. Not sure of your age but maybe this is your first dance, which explains your enthusiasm. But don't be surprised when fans who've already seen this 'gameplan' before are just a tad...cynical.

not necessarily. I mean, if people want to be cynical and what not, that's fine. but it's not the 'same thing'

for the first part. Quinn being here was a great thing. We just never got past a certain aspect, but the teams were always competitive and worked hard. (I find it ironic that what Quinn did then, is what the Rangers did now, but it is okay because because they won the President's trophy? Got to the cup finals? - that being, trading off lots of firsts and 2nds, and prospects in order to get there. i guess they have a good prospect pool, so we'll ignore it)


JFJ-Burke-Nonis, they 'helped' a bit, but yes, they were all disaster-ish when it comes to the whole of it (You can toss in the more 'assets' bit in it but overall-ish, to where we are now, collective sum of the parts).

Shanahan - is v. quiet about what he is doing. yes some things have leaked out (a scorched earth rebuild has been 'approved' (may/may not happen), but there has been things to put us at least "equal" to other organizations. People want to dismiss the analytics, and that's fine - but we've got that in our pocket now.. People complain about the scouting (that's been audited). - which means, that the 2nd part of that (developmental process - had to have been reviewed as well). Everyone is either

A: expecting sweeping changes in one year. (which is v. difficult to do) or
B: seeing how this year was a complete failure, and is calling for everyone's head. or it's "more of the same."

Now, while I feel that y'all can do whatever you want, be cynical, be all "show me, before i trust you, etc." (shrug) it takes the same amount of energy to trust them as it does to not. i'd rather trust in the process and see what 2-3 years brings us then be all "grump grump grump.. oh wait.

but millage varies.

 

[darrylsittler27]

So, Edmonton did it the right way?

So what is right about teaching young guys like Reilly,Nylander to be losers? With the new lotto format, 10 teams vying for 3 picks, what is the benefit to losing? Whether this team makes the playoffs is debatable but trying to lose is pathetic. You ruin what you already have and create a losing atmosphere.

I can't see bringing in Babcock and telling him he needs to suck for a year or two when there is no benefit anymore.Next years draft wont be like this year's freak show.So you could lose for nothing.We need to try and win and just draft better, no matter where we pick.