Maybe because it makes more sense to take out someone playing well on the fourth line than someone playing well in the top six? Even if I agreed that Lemieux was playing really well (I don’t), Roslovic has done nothing to merit being taken out of the lineup, he plays more minutes, has more impact and is just plain exponentially better.
Prospect Info: Brendan Lemieux
- Thread starter fmrdh
- Start date
As far as Petan vs Lemieux goes, while I like Petan fine, whether he ultimately makes the NHL full time or flames out won’t make a huge difference to me. What is actually unsettling is how a “hot” start on the scoresheet over your first ten games or so makes such a huge difference on whether you’re given future rope or not. Petan is a scorer who wasn’t scoring, fine he was taken out of the lineup and this point probably never gets back in. Lemieux has a 110 PDO, which anyone who knows anything knows isn’t sustainable and there’s a very real chance he stays in the lineup unconditionally when he is very clearly the weakest forward in the lineup right now.
I think its roslovic. he doesn't bring the energy that either Appleton or lemeiux does. he looked bad most of his time on the 4th line.
MardyBum
Registered User
Bro, a whole couple of games?
check the CF% for the whole season since small sample sizes matter to you. Who's number 2 with a massive 13 games played?
MardyBum
Registered User
If we trade for Stone it'll be both.
Ehlers - Scheif - Wheeler
Connor - Little - Stone
Keep P-L-T together and run Laine Copp Roslovic.
Measuring players who have been rapidly improving based on a small sample size is a perfect recipe to underestimate player development, progression and potential.
CF% can’t be measured accurately over a couple of games. That’s not how stats work.
I don’t want to speak for all Lemieux detractors but to me this has nothing to do with Petan. Whether I think he’s superior to Lemieux or not is irrelevant. Lemieux is a bad possession player with an insanely high PDO who doesn’t make his teammates better. What would the fans’ collective opinion be had he not banked two goals off defencemen or scored two squeakers from the halfwall or the corner. On top of that, he’s a liability defensively and panics with the puck. I don’t care whether Petan becomes an NHL player or not, I just don’t like people being fooled into thinking Lemieux is an NHL player either.
Yup, you're right. It's going to be hard to take either of those guys out of the lineup but that's what will have to happen.
No way Roslo comes out. The guy is on the edge of breaking out.
Take Lemieux's last 25 games then so you are looking at the games after he has had a chance to get his feet wet in the NHL and he is the 8th best forward. The point is that is not clear that he is the worst forward on the team and he is trending up - not static.
Bro, a whole couple of games?
check the CF% for the whole season since small sample sizes matter to you. Who's number 2 with a massive 13 games played?
Gil Fisher
Registered User
I could see Appleton heading to the Moose to get some more games at Centre. Not sure there's any point in him sitting in a PB.
The 4th line is playing good
Roslovic when on that line wasn't good at all. It's a much tougher question on who to remove then you think. The person I was responding to thought Appleton would get benched. I think roslovic and you lemieux. 3 people all with different calls on who to sit. If the line is playing good why would you break it up for a player who is playing no better then the 2 players he might replace. I'm ok with whoever they take out by the way.
I think he is improving quickly, not just having the lucky bounces go in. I think most people are smart enough to see that on both sides of this.
We have to take into account he is getting better and he is a grinder, so it might take time before he is a plus possession player. But the quicker he gets better, the sooner that day will come.
Lowry and Copp have had their struggles along the way as well. As usual, patience paid off there. I'm assuming the best is yet to come for Lemieux.
The stats are the stats. They are facts, like people say. But how you interpret them is subjective. So your opinion on someone based on their stats and what they are is an opinion.
Just because you have stats backing up your opinion doesnt mean you are interpreting them "optimally"
(everyone loves that term criticizing Maurice lineups). That's how I see this stuff.And I'm comfortable enough having my bias be that calling watching your favourite hockey team "the eye test" says a lot. More than being a bit behind on your advanced stats interpretations does.
First of all, there’s a lot more to it than thinking Roslovic wasn’t playing well on the fourth line. Granted, his skill set is more suited to the top six but because he doesn’t play the dump, chase and hit style of game that some people seem to like, doesn’t mean he’s not an effective fourth line player. He is an incredible skater with great instincts. He was also largely playing centre in the games on the fourth line you seem to be unsatisfied with. That wouldn’t be an issue here with Copp firmly in that role.
I’ve long given up assuming that Maurice will make logical and intelligent decisions in regards to who comes out of the lineup when another player returns and I agree that it’s entirely possible that he takes out Roslovic. It would be close to the worst roster decision he’s ever made (and that’s saying a lot) but it’s not out of the question. I’m merely saying exactly how stupid it would be.
pucka lucka
Registered User
It's juvenile and undermines any attempts at legitimate discussion around here.
This is a lot a typing that ultimately says very little. You’re entitled to intepret the stats anyway you like. I’m not sure how you can argue that a PDO of 110 could be interpreted as anything other than blind luck.I think he is improving quickly, not just having the lucky bounces go in. I think most people are smart enough to see that on both sides of this.
We have to take into account he is getting better and he is a grinder, so it might take time before he is a plus possession player. But the quicker he gets better, the sooner that day will come.
Lowry and Copp have had their struggles along the way as well. As usual, patience paid off there. I'm assuming the best is yet to come for Lemieux.
The stats are the stats. They are facts, like people say. But how you interpret them is subjective. So your opinion on someone based on their stats and what they are is an opinion.
Just because you have stats backing up your opinion doesnt mean you are interpreting them "optimally"
And I'm comfortable enough having my bias be that calling watching your favourite hockey team "the eye test" says a lot. More than being a bit behind on your advanced stats interpretations does.
I agree that there’s a place for letting young players play and improve. I would argue, though that grinders like Lemieux get far more rope around here because the expectations aren’t that they score regularly immediately after entering the lineup. Judging a player like Lemieux goes beyond the box score because it’s really not what he’s there for.
That being said, comparing him to Lowry or Copp is unfair. Lowry and Copp are, and always have been good at keeping the puck out of our zone and thus out of our net. Even with their offensive warts and occasional slumps, they’ve provided above replacement level value on defence. Lemieux is not a good defensive player and his career up to this point suggests he probably never will be. It’s not his game and he just doesn’t think the game well enough at this point to indicate that this will ever improve. When the scoring stops, and the PDO suggests it will really soon, so will his perceived value.
Lemieux was drafted 4 spots later then roslovic. He has 10 goals in 50 games 5on5 as a 4th liner and roslovic has 6 in 90 with quite a few games as a 2nd liner. As a 4th liner lemieux brings more to the table. I find it odd that maurice has played lemieux and Appleton as pkers after 30 games and still has yet to trust roslovic aa a pker. Not as easy as you make it out to be. Still ok with whoever ge chooses to sit.
MardyBum
Registered User
Over that same time frame Connor, Little, and Scheifele are in the bottom 5 as well, and Lemieux is still a sub 50% even though he's 8th. Copp has worked wonders on that line and they're definitely better defensively, but offensively they've been pretty damn lucky.
Still, you can definitely see he's been improving over the year, but he's still going to be in the PB before Roslovic.
All very good points. I'm okay saying little, because I see Chevy as so much smarter than most of us here.especually since he has the full picture and we only have what we see.
I think its fair to say it's a lot of luck, and some improvement and good play. Maybe more luck than the other two, but the truth is usually somewhere in the middle
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