Player Discussion Brendan Gaunce (Canucks will not extend qualifying offer - Dhaliwal)

[Melvin]

I am not looking at Brandon Sutter. I am looking at our opponents who have players like Mathieu Perrault, Adam Lowry on their 4th lines. Scottie Upshall would have brought a more well rounded game to the 4th line actually. Though there is the element of youth to Gaunce on a rebuilding team, though not sure what "upside" he actually has to improve much.

But then you're not looking at guys playing the same role as Gaunce.

Gaunce's role, again, is as extreme as it gets. He kills penalties and comes on for defensive zone faceoffs. His role is more extreme than any forward in the nhl. Literally. He is #1. And the players used in a somewhat similar role, albeit not as extreme, like Sutter before his injury, also don't produce much. It's not a coincidence.

 

[me2]

Gaunce is indeed the great divider.

Speaks to our impressive attention to detail here I believe.

Well I think goes to the state of the team. On teams of the past you wouldn't even bother wasting your time arguing about the garbage player or two at the bottom of the lineup, it'd be arguments over mid-tier players.

Tanev, Horvat and Boeser are too good to argue about. Baertschi is decent. Everyone accepts the 37yo sedins are 37, and age is getting them.

On this team once you get past the top few players on this team all that's left to argue about is garbage.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Jason York really has a thick Ontario accent.

I love the way he says ewt standing..

 

[Hit the post]

I am not looking at Brandon Sutter. I am looking at our opponents who have players like Mathieu Perrault, Adam Lowry on their 4th lines. Scottie Upshall would have brought a more well rounded game to the 4th line actually. Though there is the element of youth to Gaunce on a rebuilding team, though not sure what "upside" he actually has to improve much.

Just took a quick look at Mathieu Perrault...8 of his 19 points were from the power play (he has received 2.5 minutes of power play time per game on average this season).

Gaunce has averaged 3 seconds of power play time (for good reason lol) this season so far by comparison.

 

[Verviticus]

I am not looking at Brandon Sutter. I am looking at our opponents who have players like Mathieu Perrault, Adam Lowry on their 4th lines. Scottie Upshall would have brought a more well rounded game to the 4th line actually. Though there is the element of youth to Gaunce on a rebuilding team, though not sure what "upside" he actually has to improve much.

so if we put brock boeser on our 4th line, problem solved?

 

[RobertKron]

Dammit, Gaunce, how come you didn't sign better players in the offseason? What kind of shitty GM are you, anyway?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[Jessep]

Just took a quick look at Mathieu Perrault...8 of his 19 points were from the power play (he has received 2.5 minutes of power play time per game on average this season).

Gaunce has averaged 3 seconds of power play time (for good reason lol) this season so far by comparison.

Which means Mathieu Perrault has 11 even strength points in just 23 games this season. More points than Gaunce has in his 96 NHL games. The simple truth is even 4th line players are expected to contribute 'some' offense. If he can't he'll likely wind up a fringe player or a career AHL'er. As the team improves he'll lose his spot to a guy that can defend and contribute some offense.

 

[Alan Jackson]

I like most of Gaunce's game. He's a willing and effective forechecker, strong on the puck, effective down low and along the boards, and a responsible defensive player.

At some point, though, you do need to see *some* production, don't you?

You can't go 100+ games without chipping in a goal or two and be an everyday player.

Eventually, he's going to need a little bit of a bottom line to stay in the league. I actually do think he might have a bit of upside, but as is he's an adequate 4th line player.

 

[racerjoe]

I find this debate a little bit funny. Gaunce is literally one of the least of our actual problems. This isn't to say at some point he doesn't need to score, but a player playing his minutes, producing his results is a net positive. A defensmen getting easy minutes and drowning not helping. A scoring winger barely scoring is a bigger problem. This team has a ton of problems, Gaunce isn't one of them. Again not to say he can continue to not score, just there are so many way bigger issues. He is at least a positive outcome player for us.

 

[Hit the post]

I like most of Gaunce's game. He's a willing and effective forechecker, strong on the puck, effective down low and along the boards, and a responsible defensive player.

At some point, though, you do need to see *some* production, don't you?

You can't go 100+ games without chipping in a goal or two and be an everyday player.

Eventually, he's going to need a little bit of a bottom line to stay in the league. I actually do think he might have a bit of upside, but as is he's an adequate 4th line player.

Of course, which is why I don't see him on the team IF the team gets better. But as others have said, there are a far greater number of players I'd be looking to upgrade on before Gaunce (not that he's not replaceable).

 

[MS]

I like most of Gaunce's game. He's a willing and effective forechecker, strong on the puck, effective down low and along the boards, and a responsible defensive player.

At some point, though, you do need to see *some* production, don't you?

You can't go 100+ games without chipping in a goal or two and be an everyday player.

Eventually, he's going to need a little bit of a bottom line to stay in the league. I actually do think he might have a bit of upside, but as is he's an adequate 4th line player.

Marcus Kruger got a $10 million contract and two Stanley Cups playing like this.

Another good game for him last night. Buried in 14% o-zone starts, wasn't on for an ES goal against in a game where we lost 7-5, and finishes with a positive shot differential. Basically soaked up all the tough minutes/draws and pushed the puck forward safely out of our zone to free up our skill players in offensive situations ... which is what he does effectively nearly every single night.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Marcus Kruger got a $10 million contract and two Stanley Cups playing like this.

Another good game for him last night. Buried in 14% o-zone starts, wasn't on for an ES goal against in a game where we lost 7-5, and finishes with a positive shot differential. Basically soaked up all the tough minutes/draws and pushed the puck forward safely out of our zone to free up our skill players in offensive situations ... which is what he does effectively nearly every single night.

Sure, but Marcus Kruger was also scoring 15 or 20 ES points every season.

Again, I have no problems whatsoever with Gaunce, I absolutely agree that he's a low-maintenance, effective 4th liner. But if he wants to be anything other than a guy that's always on the bubble, he's going to need to chip in at least a little.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I like most of Gaunce's game. He's a willing and effective forechecker, strong on the puck, effective down low and along the boards, and a responsible defensive player.

At some point, though, you do need to see *some* production, don't you?

You can't go 100+ games without chipping in a goal or two and be an everyday player.

Eventually, he's going to need a little bit of a bottom line to stay in the league. I actually do think he might have a bit of upside, but as is he's an adequate 4th line player.

basically this. gaunce is a player i really want to pencil in as a longterm canuck because of what he brings but he has got to find a way to contribute. it would help if there were a couple of other players on the team who play like him. put him with a dorsett type player and i think it would happen for him.

 

[Melvin]

Just took a quick look at Mathieu Perrault...8 of his 19 points were from the power play (he has received 2.5 minutes of power play time per game on average this season).

Gaunce has averaged 3 seconds of power play time (for good reason lol) this season so far by comparison.

It's also an indication that the player is probably used in other offensive situations, such as with the goalie pulled, OT, offensive zone faceoffs, etc. Just like Sutter last year, the points he collected on the PP was only part of the story.

And anyway, seems like a pretty extreme example. Yeah, it would be nice if Gaunce had as many points as Perreault. It would also be nice if Horvat had as many points as Stamkos, I guess? Is that the standard?

Gaunce will chip in a few goals eventually. Relax.

 

[Dab]

There will be forwards likely available this summer who can provide almost as good defence but better offensive production. I’d explore that option.

 

[iceburg]

I like most of Gaunce's game. He's a willing and effective forechecker, strong on the puck, effective down low and along the boards, and a responsible defensive player.

At some point, though, you do need to see *some* production, don't you?

You can't go 100+ games without chipping in a goal or two and be an everyday player.

Eventually, he's going to need a little bit of a bottom line to stay in the league. I actually do think he might have a bit of upside, but as is he's an adequate 4th line player.

Gaunce is showing good development towards his upside - a tough to play against shutdown forward. Too often we interpret upside as goal scoring when it's not necessary for every player to score provided they are adding a needed element. Shutting down McDavid is as good and important as scoring goals. Sure it's nice to be able to add a few once in a while. The fact that he's being outscored by Markstrom is more than a little embarrassing.

 

[RobertKron]

Sure, but Marcus Kruger was also scoring 15 or 20 ES points every season.

Again, I have no problems whatsoever with Gaunce, I absolutely agree that he's a low-maintenance, effective 4th liner. But if he wants to be anything other than a guy that's always on the bubble, he's going to need to chip in at least a little.

For sure, but I struggle to understand how anyone who was watched the last few games can think he’ll just never score any points. For the most part, all of his fundamentals are sound. Either he’ll be a weird outlier for his whole life, or it’ll eventually even out.

 

[Jay Cee]

Pretty much everyone who plays hockey in the NHL is a better producer than Gaunce. It is bizarre to point at a guy who has scored at double or triple the pace his entire career from the very beginning as a great comparable. People should be looking for comparable players who were on the verge of leaving the NHL forever, who did not produce at all who was a good defensive forward who came back from the abyss to salvage a career. That's where we're at.

I also agree with the posters that say this is a strange debate, it really is. Usually when a guy is a bust and a black hole offensively, (especially a former first round pick) he gets a little flak. You have to wonder why that is....

 

[Addison Rae]

Which means Mathieu Perrault has 11 even strength points in just 23 games this season. More points than Gaunce has in his 96 NHL games. The simple truth is even 4th line players are expected to contribute 'some' offense. If he can't he'll likely wind up a fringe player or a career AHL'er. As the team improves he'll lose his spot to a guy that can defend and contribute some offense.

Matthieu Perrault is an excellent middle 6 winger, and a guy who's typically been a fantastic even strength scorer. Citing him as an example of a 4th liner is absurd, considering this is a player that has produced fantastic 2nd line level even strength production since 2013/2014.

Your evaluation of ice hockey players shouldn't be on the basis of how much offense they produce, it should be on the basis of the impact they have on the game. A high event player who scores ~25 points on your 4th line who also bleeds goals against isn't a better player than a low event guy who doesn't score much, but eats up tough deployment and produces quality results.

Sam Gagner may be scoring at a pretty good rate for a fourth liner, but his impact to the team is significantly less than Brendan Gaunce's this season. Gagner is playing in significantly easier deployment than Gaunce and is bleeding goals against more than any non Arizona player in the league, he is 3rd last in the NHL in even strength goal differential. Gaunce has started over 80% of shifts in the defensive zone, he is playing the Malhotra/Kruger deployment so the Sedins can be playing some of the easiest minutes in the league. This is the kind of player you want on your fourth line, a player that can open up easier match-ups for the skilled players in your lineup.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

...
Usually when a guy is a bust and a black hole offensively, (especially a former first round pick) he gets a little flak. You have to wonder why that is....

Gaunce is neither.

He’s produced offence at an exceptional rate in the AHL.

It will increase in the NHL when he’s given more time and opportunities.

 

[F A N]

Gaunce is neither.

He’s produced offence at an exceptional rate in the AHL.

It will increase in the NHL when he’s given more time and opportunities.

Markus Granlund produced offense at an exceptional rate in the AHL as well. Some posters here think he's a replacement player.

 

[Cupless44]

Which means Mathieu Perrault has 11 even strength points in just 23 games this season. More points than Gaunce has in his 96 NHL games. The simple truth is even 4th line players are expected to contribute 'some' offense. If he can't he'll likely wind up a fringe player or a career AHL'er. As the team improves he'll lose his spot to a guy that can defend and contribute some offense.

Thank you. I didn't realize it was that hard to understand that there are many effective 4th line players around the NHL who check well and drive possession but are able to chip in more than 1 goal in 96 games.

Simply put, there are better 4th liners than Brendan Gaunce. This is a roster position than can be upgraded, and would be on a contending team.

 

[Hit the post]

Simply put, there are better 4th liners than Brendan Gaunce. This is a roster position than can be upgraded, and would be on a contending team.

heh, like there isn't a position on this team that could use upgrading (including executive management personnel)

Simply put, replacing Gaunce with an elite 4th liner - **** replace the other two with elite 4th liners & the team would still be where more or less where it is.

After more than three seasons with this regime - is that good enough regardless with what he inherited?

 

[rune74]

I find this debate a little bit funny. Gaunce is literally one of the least of our actual problems. This isn't to say at some point he doesn't need to score, but a player playing his minutes, producing his results is a net positive. A defensmen getting easy minutes and drowning not helping. A scoring winger barely scoring is a bigger problem. This team has a ton of problems, Gaunce isn't one of them. Again not to say he can continue to not score, just there are so many way bigger issues. He is at least a positive outcome player for us.

The weird thing here is we expect others like virtanen to score with those same minutes.