Breaking Bad vs Mad Men vs The Sopranos vs The Wire

[McOilers97]

I probably rank them:

The Wire
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
The Sopranos

They're all fantastic shows.

If I'm adding a few off-the board shows into this big 4, I actually feel like The Leftovers, The Americans and Six Feet Under are every bit the equals of (or slightly better than) Mad Men and The Sopranos.

 

[Neutrinos]

The cast was brilliant and yes, there was a ton of conflict in that show but it was so very well done. Dark, but visceral and real. Probably not for everyone.

Agree to disagree, I guess

Watching Michael C. Hall try to cry every episode was just painful

And the conflict you think was so well done, just seemed contrived for the sake of drama

 

[SouthGeorge]

One of these shows doesn't belong.. Mad Men. Not in the same realm of those other 3 shows.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I didn't see it that way. It really showed how Tony despite being this mob boss had to deal with the same issues all parents do. AJ not doing well in school, lazy, unmotivated, confused, depressed, suicidal and finally gifted an opportunity by his wealthy parents. If that doesn't describe many kids these days I don't know what to tell you.. He was annoying but not half as annoying as Janice. Carmela was too at times but Falco absolutely nailed this role as Anna Gunn did in Breaking Bad.

The female leads in these series did not get enough credit because they are often the antagonist to the leads.

Skylar White was a lot more annoying than Carmella, IMO. Maybe she was meant to be written than way and that's how Gunn portrayed it (sidebar but I always thought she looked like Woody Harrelson in drag in Anger Management ), but my god she's was just as annoying to me as Janice, AJ or if you want to add other shows not listed here, Debbie Gallagher from Shameless or Jillian Darmody from Boardwalk Empire. Sometimes I wanted to FFwd her/their scenes. Never felt that way with Carmella even during the times she was annoying.

I'm also easily annoyed and hate whiney characters. I hated when Jesse would whine/cry at times too. Same goes for Carrie Mattheson cry face in Homeland. Or if you want to include movies, emo Kylo Ren scenes in the new star wars.

That's one thing I'll say about The Wire though, I don't think it had any characters I was downright annoyed by or hated, and there's usually one in every show. I hated the newspaper stuff in season 5, but that more of the overall and not specific to any character within that storyline.

 

[Shareefruck]

While I love the heart and very human premise of Six Feet Under, the writing can get very spotty, meandering, contrived, and not super well executed, IMO. It starts to feel like a bit of a soap opera that they're forcing drama out of as it goes on (like Jesus, how many traumatic events can a family have over the course of a few years?), but the ending does a good job of punctuating the magic at the heart of the series. There are A LOT of shows I would consider before it that don't get mentioned nearly as often. Freaks and Geeks is better than it, Twin Peaks is better than it, Deadwood is better than it, etc, IMO.

And Mad Men belongs in the conversation way more than Breaking Bad does, IMO.

 

[Winger98]

The Wire isn't even my favorite show set in Baltimore.

Sopranos
Wire
Mad Men
Breaking Bad

 

[Boris Zubov]

Mad Men
Sopranos
Deadwood

I know it's not a popular take, but IMO, Mad Men was the best written & best acted of the 4 being discussed. It's also the only one of those shows that I feel like the finale was timed perfectly. The show had gone as far as it could go, but I never felt like it stayed too long. As an aside, the fact that I worked for McAnn in a previous lifetime was pretty gratifying when they would accurately slag that company.

I loved the Sopranos, but the final 2.5 seasons left a serious black eye on its leagacy. It's extremely disappointing that a show which was so brilliant for 5 years was given such a terrible send off. (I'm not just talking about the finale...which didn't really bother me because the show had already become trash at that point) At the time it seemed like an obvious money grab considering David Chase was clearly over it.

The Wire & BB are two of the most over-rated shows ever. Both shows followed the exact same formula of plot lines repeating themselves. I found myself hate watching the last 2 seasons of each series just to see how they ended. I really enjoyed Cranston's performance as Walter White, but there wasn't a single likable character on the show with the exception of Saul.

Deadwood is one of my favorite shows ever, & is really high on the list even though there's only 3 seasons. The writing & the acting on that show were absolutely incredible. Such a shame it had to end prematurely.

 

[NyQuil]

The Wire & BB are two of the most over-rated shows ever. Both shows followed the exact same formula of plot lines repeating themselves.

To be fair, that's the whole point of the Wire.

Despite the best of intentions, despite targeted police activity, despite educational programs, despite an initially well-meaning politician, the system grinds people up and nothing really changes.

 

[K Fleur]

To be fair, that's the whole point of the Wire.

Despite the best of intentions, despite targeted police activity, despite educational programs, despite an initially well-meaning politician, the system grinds people up and nothing really changes.

Yeah that’s why the ending of the Wire is so great. It doesn’t really have one.

 

[chicagoskycam]

These shows set the bar but now streaming options are routinely crushing them in terms of overall quality.

Narcos - I'd put it above anything aside from the Sopranos
1st few seasons of House of Cards

GOT should have been in the discussion, there is simply nothing better 1st four seasons and then drops off of a cliff.
Man in the High Castle

I think the Breaking Bad universe may be leading as you have a fairly successful spin-off with BCS

Dark - probably #1 for me right now
Stranger Things - Overrated.
OITNB - Highly rated but I didn't care for it.

 

[member 51464]

One of these shows doesn't belong.. Mad Men. Not in the same realm of those other 3 shows.

I'm surprised you view it that way. I think Breaking Bad is the one that's clearly not in the same realm as the other three in terms of any aspect whether it be acting, writing, plot, etc...

 

[Neutrinos]

If we're just ranking HBO shows at this point, Entourage, and it's female counterpart, Sex And The City, deserve some praise

Both were excellent, and personally speaking, Entourage is among my all-time favorites

 

[Shareefruck]

These shows set the bar but now streaming options are routinely crushing them in terms of overall quality.

Narcos - I'd put it above anything aside from the Sopranos
1st few seasons of House of Cards

GOT should have been in the discussion, there is simply nothing better 1st four seasons and then drops off of a cliff.
Man in the High Castle

I think the Breaking Bad universe may be leading as you have a fairly successful spin-off with BCS

Dark - probably #1 for me right now
Stranger Things - Overrated.
OITNB - Highly rated but I didn't care for it.

Could not disagree more.

I haven't seen Dark or Narcos, so maybe they change the argument, but for the most part, the early 2000s dramas were far stronger than the formulaic assembly line of never-ending dramas with strong production values that are common-place today and that were influenced by that initial golden age, IMO. It's gotten more abundant because they've figured out a repeatable formula that people are most drawn to/easily fooled/manipulated by (especially the opportunistic streaming platform ones), but it hasn't gotten any better or more inspired/tasteful/well written, in my view-- It's dramatically regressed in artistic merit, if anything.

I think that Game of Thrones is basically in the exact same place as Breaking Bad (not really belonging in the same conversation with the other three/Deadwood but really effective at the crowd-pleasing thing that they do). House of Cards and Stranger Things are very mediocre, Man in High Castle is nothing remotely noteworthy or memorable, and OITNB is outright trashy television, IMO. People tend to be easily fooled by high production values-- these are essentially the modern equivalent of lame and empty-calorie shows from the past like 24, but glamoured/polished up to try to pass themselves off as a Sopranos-level show, in my view. They've adapted to be smart enough to avoid the obvious pitfalls that we typically associate with dismissable shows, but they're also not really reaching particularly great heights (and will probably be forgotten in twenty years for that reason).

The only modern show I can think of that I think actually rises above the typical standard dross of streaming dramas and stands out in a way that's actually comparable in quality/impressiveness to the golden age would be something like Atlanta, for me, personally.

 

[Stylizer1]

The Shield needs some love.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I'm surprised you view it that way. I think Breaking Bad is the one that's clearly not in the same realm as the other three in terms of any aspect whether it be acting, writing, plot, etc...

Are you serious? Writing and plot? That's Breaking Bad. Mad Men is a trash show. There's no great writing or plot behind it.

 

[member 51464]

Are you serious? Writing and plot? That's Breaking Bad. Mad Men is a trash show. There's no great writing or plot behind it.

I can refer you to any of Shareefruck's thoughtful and eloquent and numerous take downs of the Breaking Bad worship over the years. He has already said more on the topic than I ever could, and probably better too.

The plot of Mad Men may be a slow burn, but to say there is no great writing and that it is trash makes me wonder if you've ever actually watched the show.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Could not disagree more.

I haven't seen Dark or Narcos, so maybe they change the argument, but for the most part, the early 2000s dramas were far stronger than the formulaic assembly line of never-ending dramas with strong production values that are common-place today and that were influenced by that initial golden age, IMO. It's gotten more abundant because they've figured out a repeatable formula that people are most drawn to/easily fooled/manipulated by (especially the opportunistic streaming platform ones), but it hasn't gotten any better or more inspired/tasteful/well written, in my view-- It's dramatically regressed in artistic merit, if anything.

I think that Game of Thrones is basically in the exact same place as Breaking Bad (not really belonging in the same conversation with the other three/Deadwood but really effective at the crowd-pleasing thing that they do). House of Cards and Stranger Things are very mediocre, Man in High Castle is nothing remotely noteworthy or memorable, and OITNB is outright trashy television, IMO. People tend to be easily fooled by high production values-- these are essentially the modern equivalent of lame and empty-calorie shows from the past like 24, but glamoured/polished up to try to pass themselves off as a Sopranos-level show, in my view. They've adapted to be smart enough to avoid the obvious pitfalls that we typically associate with dismissable shows, but they're also not really reaching particularly great heights (and will probably be forgotten in twenty years for that reason).

The only modern show I can think of that I think actually rises above the typical standard dross of streaming dramas and stands out in a way that's actually comparable in quality/impressiveness to the golden age would be something like Atlanta, for me, personally.

You should try Narcos or Dark, however they are subtitled unless you understand German and
Spanish.

... and I'm pretty sure I voiced my dislike for Stranger Things and OITNB. House of Cards 1st few seasons, not much is better.

When you do a rewatch of some of these shows mentioned from the early 2000's, they do not hold up as well. Most of the shows mentioned are 1sts outside of the major networks to get that type of attention and recognition, they had more freedom, larger budgets, etc. It was a shift in how tv series operated and now it's the norm. So these shows get a bit of that nostalgia feel...

 

[Shareefruck]

You should try Narcos or Dark, however they are subtitled unless you understand German and
Spanish.

... and I'm pretty sure I voiced my dislike for Stranger Things and OITNB. House of Cards 1st few seasons, not much is better.

When you do a rewatch of some of these shows mentioned from the early 2000's, they do not hold up as well. Most of the shows mentioned are 1sts outside of the major networks to get that type of attention and recognition, they had more freedom, larger budgets, etc. It was a shift in how tv series operated and now it's the norm. So these shows get a bit of that nostalgia feel...

It depends on which ones you're referring to, but I just flat out disagree with this when it comes to some of the bigger examples. Shows like The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, Arrested Development, The Office UK, Freaks and Geeks, and Curb Your Enthusiasm all hit peaks that I don't think have come close to being surpassed since and hold up very well, IMO (I didn't watch all of them when they came out, and they're a clear step above for me). The current crop just isn't nearly as notable. I can agree with something like Six Feet Under becoming somewhat dated and having a lot of things that don't hold up, though.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I can refer you to any of Shareefruck's thoughtful and eloquent and numerous take downs of the Breaking Bad worship over the years. He has already said more on the topic than I ever could, and probably better too.

The plot of Mad Men may be a slow burn, but to say there is no great writing and that it is trash makes me wonder if you've ever actually watched the show.

I watched 4-5 seasons and got bored and never kept up with it. It brought nothing new to the table. Some big wig cheating on his wife. Ground breaking, never seen that story before.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Mad Men did an excellent job of putting you in that Era. Other than that I didn’t care for it. My sister loved it but she’s an advertising exec.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Mad Men did an excellent job of putting you in that Era. Other than that I didn’t care for it. My sister loved it but she’s an advertising exec.

I'll agree with that. It was a decent show. But after 4-5 seasons there just wasn't enough character growth or anything to continue watching. Nothing great about it. Definitely not in the conversation with the likes of BB, Wire, and Sopranos.

 

[Shareefruck]

I don't think Mad Men is the greatest thing in the world, but sometimes the importance of character development can be overstated-- people get too caught up in the norms of what shows usually do and treat them too much like necessities (plot development, character development, etc.)-- Mad Men did a great job of using its characters (almost like distinct and clearly outlined puzzle pieces rather than dynamic/fluid entities) to cleverly ruminate on and explore certain subjects/moments in interesting storytelling-exercise ways that at times felt surprisingly tasteful, tactful, and artistic (not every episode, but frequently enough). Something like Breaking Bad is very straightforward and shallow in comparison even if its characters change more. The form of development the characters undergo is serviceable, but isn't that impressive, IMO-- Like, desperation and bad situations cause good people to do bad things, get lost in the thrill/empowerment of it, and lose their moral center-- As an idea, that's not really that original, interesting or worth exploring-- it's basically just the backstory of any bad guy you come across these days, and that's pretty much the focus of the entire show (which feels more like a giant excuse for edge-of-your-seat shennanigans). There are things about Mad Men's storytelling that sometimes feels too hokey and soapy (like the flashbacks and the twists), but the way that it focuses more on culture, circumstances, and worldviews has much more substance, IMO.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I don't think Mad Men is the greatest thing in the world, but sometimes the importance of character development can be overstated-- people get too caught up in the norms of what shows usually do and treat them too much like necessities (plot development, character development, etc.)-- Mad Men did a great job of using its characters (almost like distinct and clearly outlined puzzle pieces rather than dynamic/fluid entities) to cleverly ruminate on and explore certain subjects/moments in interesting storytelling-exercise ways that at times felt surprisingly tasteful, tactful, and artistic (not every episode, but frequently enough). Something like Breaking Bad is very straightforward and shallow in comparison even if its characters change more. The form of development the characters undergo is serviceable, but isn't that impressive, IMO-- Like, desperation and bad situations cause good people to do bad things, get lost in the thrill/empowerment of it, and lose their moral center-- As an idea, that's not really that original, interesting or worth exploring-- it's basically just the backstory of any bad guy you come across these days, and that's pretty much the focus of the entire show (which feels more like a giant excuse for edge-of-your-seat shennanigans). There are things about Mad Men's storytelling that sometimes feels too hokey and soapy (like the flashbacks and the twists), but the way that it focuses more on culture, circumstances, and worldviews has much more substance, IMO.

Walter Whites growth from Season 1 to the end and in between was way more than Don. 4-5 Seasons it took Don to cheat on his wife, get a new young thing, and end up having troubles with her. There's slow burn and painfully boring. Enjoyable slow burns; True Detectives, Fargo's, Watchmen, The Outsiders right now. 7 seasons to tell something you could easily do in one is too much.

I was trying to figure out where I ended and every screenshot for most of the episodes is Don smoking/drinking and thinking about what to do. Ahh slow burn sooo good. It's not even like it had superior dialogue like True Detective or something. I seriously don't get the hype for this show. It's something to watch and decent but that's about it.

 

[Shareefruck]

Walter Whites growth from Season 1 to the end and in between was way more than Don. 4-5 Seasons it took Don to cheat on his wife, get a new young thing, and end up having troubles with her. There's slow burn and painfully boring. Enjoyable slow burns; True Detectives, Fargo's, Watchmen, The Outsiders right now. 7 seasons to tell something you could easily do in one is too much.

I was trying to figure out where I ended and every screenshot for most of the episodes is Don smoking/drinking and thinking about what to do. Ahh slow burn sooo good. It's not even like it had superior dialogue like True Detective or something. I seriously don't get the hype for this show. It's something to watch and decent but that's about it.

I already addressed that. I agreed that Walt grows more than Don, but I argued that character growth is not always a prerequisite to something being good or substantive-- In fact, character growth can sometimes be a very trivial thing. Different shows can be good by focusing on completely different things.

It's like saying The Wire isn't as good as The Sopranos purely because it has no characters that are as developed or as complex as Tony Soprano. That's kind of irrelevant-- they have different approaches that are equally valuable.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I already addressed that. I agreed that Walt grows more than Don, but I argued that character growth is not always a prerequisite to something being good-- In fact, character growth can sometimes be a very trivial thing. Different shows can be good by focusing on completely different things.

It's like saying The Wire isn't as good as The Sopranos purely because it has no characters that are as developed or as complex as Tony Soprano. That's kind of irrelevant-- they have different approaches that are equally valuable, and you should be comparing how successful the shows are at doing what they're doing, not choosing some arbitrary factor and comparing which show does it better.

The Wire could get away with lack of character growth because it was interesting and different especially at the time. Show about a business ex not so much. It was missing something imo. Maybe if they showed his grind from the very bottom to the top. That could have been 1-2 seasons. Then what the show was in 7 could have been 4-5.