Brandon Sutter -- Save Us GranBranSen || Part 4

[DL44]

Worth every penny so far.

Who disagrees?

 

[Oliewud]

Worth every penny so far.

Who disagrees?

I think we can all agree...He's foundational.

Kesler Lite

 

[DL44]

seems do something significant every shift.
If it's not a rush or scoring chance, it's a sweep of the puck away from the opposition in his dzone, or a disruption of a pass.

Such a high IQ player.

 

[DL44]

(Let's not talk about the PP tho)
Focus on the other 90-95% of the game.

 

[beachcomber]

Somebody thought they should waive him after the season. Funny stuff.

 

[Jay Cee]

I don't think his point total so far is an indication of a huge season but I do think he has more in him production wise than we have seen so far. Any way you cut it though he is a good player to have on your team.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Very high IQ player who skates like the wind. Good addition so far. Sutter's speed is really noticeable in this conference

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think if you forget the trade(s) that resulted in his acquisition, and his contract, and his last name, and at times also his deployment, yeah no complaints at all about sutter.

in a vacuum, that is a good player. and on that line, his limitations are mitigated while his strengths are maximized.

not unrelated, all the talk about selling high on hansen seems silly now doesn't it? what would it cost to acquire someone to bring what he can bring? how many guys would we need to replace his versatility? how much would we have to play that/those player(s)?

 

[sting101]

4 game MVP. Lol

Nice start. Swiss Army Knife guy who has had a big impact on so many facets.

Said it when we made the trade.....he fits our team better than Bonino.(who's a UFA at yrs end, so we'll see about cap savings)

He's not a true top 6 centre but his line is doing the job while the Horvat trio (whatever it's going to be) tries to find it's way.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

We've needed a shoot first type player since Kesler left. He fills a huge hole on this team that's been apparent for a few years. Notice how both goals scored last night came off Sutter shots. He, Granlund and Hansen have looked like a very effective line. Our best line game in and game out.

 

[rune74]

I'm really liking his play so far this season. He has to be changing some minds that were made up here.

 

[DL44]

Just glad he got his primary assist outta the way early.
Could of began to weigh on him and he may of started gripping his stick a little tight if had gone 7 or 10 or 20 games without getting one.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Just glad he got his primary assist outta the way early.
Could of began to weigh on him and he may of started gripping his stick a little tight if had gone 7 or 10 or 20 games without getting one.

Agreed. You could just see the relief in his face when the goal was announced and the announcer said 'primary assist to Brent Sutter'. Of course then he blew it by getting a secondary assist on the next goal.

 

[Nucker101]

Hard not to like him through the first 4 games. Works his tail off and is playing well in all 3 zones. It's definitely not his fault that he gets put out on PP1 where he looks out of place.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I never had a doubt that he's a good player.
He was one of the best 3C when he was in Pittsburgh, IMO.

 

[biturbo19]

I think people are having difficulty separating Brandon Sutter the player from Dim Jim's trade to acquire him and subsequently sign him to a big, long contract before he stepped onto the ice.

IMO - the Bonino - Sutter trade was mostly a win (I didn't like the swap of draft picks). On a team with a ton of speed and extremely deep scoring on their top 2 lines - such as Pittsburgh last season, Bones is a good fit on the 3rd line. But the Canucks needed either a play making C for the 2nd line (Horvat was a rookie at the time) or a shutdown, match up C for the 3rd line. For the 2nd line role, Bones wasn't a good enough skater and tends to go through very extended scoring slumps or 10, 15 or 20 games with no points at all. For the 3rd line role, he's not big, strong or fast enough to match up against the big C's in our own division (Kopitar, Getzlaf, Kesler, Thornton, etc.).

Sutter is not ideal for either of these roles, but he's much better suited than Bonino. He plays the game at a far higher pace. He's better in the face-off circle, better defensively and while not overly physical, strong enough to match up against big physical players. While his career point totals are similar, he's more of a natural scorer, but it should also be noted that Bonino put up his numbers, mostly while trying to be used as a 2nd line C. Sutter has been behind 2 elite Cs for most of his career. Fortunately Horvat is emerging as a more offensive option for the 2C role and Granlund is looking like a player as well.

Sutter isn't ideal on the 1st unit PP, but right now, there are not a lot of options. Granlund and Horvat are both LH shots. Longer term perhaps Virtanen, but he's not there yet. We could use some patience with a new PP setup as it takes some time for a PP to click. But I think the bigger problem on the PP is the positioning of Henrik and Daniel. If there is anyone in the league who can find a passing lane and feed a 60 foot saucer pass through 3 other players it's Henrik, but it's not going to happen with consistency.

Pretty much bang on the way i see it as well.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think people are having difficulty separating Brandon Sutter the player from Dim Jim's trade to acquire him and subsequently sign him to a big, long contract before he stepped onto the ice.

IMO - the Bonino - Sutter trade was mostly a win (I didn't like the swap of draft picks). On a team with a ton of speed and extremely deep scoring on their top 2 lines - such as Pittsburgh last season, Bones is a good fit on the 3rd line. But the Canucks needed either a play making C for the 2nd line (Horvat was a rookie at the time) or a shutdown, match up C for the 3rd line. For the 2nd line role, Bones wasn't a good enough skater and tends to go through very extended scoring slumps or 10, 15 or 20 games with no points at all. For the 3rd line role, he's not big, strong or fast enough to match up against the big C's in our own division (Kopitar, Getzlaf, Kesler, Thornton, etc.).

Bonino was a 2nd line playmaker here wasn't he?

For the rest, you are getting caught up in the physical attributes a player provides instead of their effectiveness. Big or small, fast or slow, the question has to be how effective was player X?

Once you move away from that result to overemphasize the factors leading to the result, you are delving into "trade for fit" or "role" instead of impact - that's the same illogical argument Benning has touted since he started here.

In the end, that trade has PIT getting the more effective player, for a much lower salary, that had shattered Sutters previous production there. That you see that as a win is... Highly suspect.

Sutter is not ideal for either of these roles, but he's much better suited than Bonino. He plays the game at a far higher pace. He's better in the face-off circle, better defensively and while not overly physical, strong enough to match up against big physical players. While his career point totals are similar, he's more of a natural scorer, but it should also be noted that Bonino put up his numbers, mostly while trying to be used as a 2nd line C. Sutter has been behind 2 elite Cs for most of his career. Fortunately Horvat is emerging as a more offensive option for the 2C role and Granlund is looking like a player as well.

Sutter isn't ideal on the 1st unit PP, but right now, there are not a lot of options. Granlund and Horvat are both LH shots. Longer term perhaps Virtanen, but he's not there yet. We could use some patience with a new PP setup as it takes some time for a PP to click. But I think the bigger problem on the PP is the positioning of Henrik and Daniel. If there is anyone in the league who can find a passing lane and feed a 60 foot saucer pass through 3 other players it's Henrik, but it's not going to happen with consistency.

PP needs to stop shoe-horning Sutter into that role. Instead, they should put a skilled player like Baertschi or Granlund there. Or add Hutton.

Can you elaborate as to the data you used to determine "similar career totals"? Also, how Sutter is better defensively? Lastly, how do you think Bonino outscored Sutter given the same 3C position last year? Do you give full credit to his linemates and none to his own ability?

 

[tyhee]

Worth every penny so far.

Who disagrees?

Well, let's see.

So far he's been paid for 86 games. He can't be criticized for it, but so far he's played 24 games.

Have those 24 games been worth the $3.5 million plus he's been paid for them? No, I don't think so, so I guess I disagree.

If you're asking whether he's been worth the money he's been paid for just the 4 games this season, then it would be hard to disagree-but he has a 5 year contract, so there are 410 games he's contracted for to the tune of almost $22 million. What can it possibly matter whether he's been impressive over a 4 game streak to begin the season?

Was Cody Hodgson worth what the Sabres paid him in 2013-14 when he led the team in scoring? Was he worth the contract, which was eventually bought out?

Remember how most fans were so impressed with Ronalds Kenins in 2014-15 when he scored 2 goals (on 6 shots) in his first 3 games? How did he turn out?

After 4 games of 2015-16, Brandon Prust had 3 points and 25 minutes in penalties, all for fighting. How did that turn out?

I don't understand why performance over a very short period of time should be taken to mean anything.

 

[Scurr]

Hansen is a great player 5v5 and a nice fit with Sutter in terms of style. If the Granlund express train runs out of steam I wouldn't mind seeing Baertschi there.

 

[kanucks25]

I think people are having difficulty separating Brandon Sutter the player from Dim Jim's trade to acquire him and subsequently sign him to a big, long contract before he stepped onto the ice.

IMO - the Bonino - Sutter trade was mostly a win (I didn't like the swap of draft picks). On a team with a ton of speed and extremely deep scoring on their top 2 lines - such as Pittsburgh last season, Bones is a good fit on the 3rd line. But the Canucks needed either a play making C for the 2nd line (Horvat was a rookie at the time) or a shutdown, match up C for the 3rd line. For the 2nd line role, Bones wasn't a good enough skater and tends to go through very extended scoring slumps or 10, 15 or 20 games with no points at all. For the 3rd line role, he's not big, strong or fast enough to match up against the big C's in our own division (Kopitar, Getzlaf, Kesler, Thornton, etc.).

Sutter is not ideal for either of these roles, but he's much better suited than Bonino. He plays the game at a far higher pace. He's better in the face-off circle, better defensively and while not overly physical, strong enough to match up against big physical players. While his career point totals are similar, he's more of a natural scorer, but it should also be noted that Bonino put up his numbers, mostly while trying to be used as a 2nd line C. Sutter has been behind 2 elite Cs for most of his career. Fortunately Horvat is emerging as a more offensive option for the 2C role and Granlund is looking like a player as well.

Sutter isn't ideal on the 1st unit PP, but right now, there are not a lot of options. Granlund and Horvat are both LH shots. Longer term perhaps Virtanen, but he's not there yet. We could use some patience with a new PP setup as it takes some time for a PP to click. But I think the bigger problem on the PP is the positioning of Henrik and Daniel. If there is anyone in the league who can find a passing lane and feed a 60 foot saucer pass through 3 other players it's Henrik, but it's not going to happen with consistency.

Good post.

Pretty much bang on the way i see it as well.

1) Only a few people have trouble separating the player from the trade. Usually those are the people that just hate Benning and will hate very player he brings in. Others dislike the trade but can still like Sutter as a player in a vacuum. Same goes for the Gudbranson situation.

2) Like Beach Clean said, you're putting too much importance on how a player plays or looks instead of his actual effectiveness. Sutter is not better offensively, not better defensively (look at career traditional and advanced stats) and is just barely better in the FO circle.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

1) Only a few people have trouble separating the player from the trade. Usually those are the people that just hate Benning and will hate very player he brings in. Others dislike the trade but can still like Sutter as a player in a vacuum. Same goes for the Gudbranson situation.

2) Like Beach Clean said, you're putting too much importance on how a player plays or looks instead of his actual effectiveness. Sutter is not better offensively, not better defensively (look at career traditional and advanced stats) and is just barely better in the FO circle.

So is LA great be cause they have so man y efective players or

 

[m9]

Sutter played like this last year too, he just was hurt constantly. He'll settle in to a 35-45 point range.

 

[VanJack]

This is the best top-four d-corps the Canucks have had since the 2010-2011 glory years.....crossing my fingers they can all stay healthy...no doubt Gudbranson has come in and stabilized things on the second-pairing.

 

[BassMason]

This is the best top-four d-corps the Canucks have had since the 2010-2011 glory years.....crossing my fingers they can all stay healthy...no doubt Gudbranson has come in and stabilized things on the second-pairing.

I think the thread title got you. No doubt it's confusing.

 

[DL44]

Team high 15 sog... almost double Hansen (8) in 3rd place. Daniel with 12.

It's an impressive early total.. 19th in the league. same as OV, Hall.. higher per game than McDavid, Tavares, Kane, Gaudreau, Malkin, Kopitar, Benn.