Brandon Sutter Pt 2

[arttk]

I don't understand this post. I refuted the "90% of Sutter's points were being fed to him by the Sedins" claim, which was a blatantly false claim by Vtownfan. I never made to qualitative predictions based on that? You are so quick to jump in and bash Sutter that you aren't even reading a post to see what it actually contains.

Yes you did, I am just using your post as a jumping point since it has all the videos of all the goals.

 

[arttk]

Sutter's numbers are pretty similar to Cogliano's if you look at their production at different ages (though Cogliano's are a little better):

Sutter:

20: 21 goals/40 points
21: 14 goals/29 points
22: 17 goals/32 points
23: 19 goal/32 point pace
24: 13 goals/26 points
25: 21 goals/33 points


Cogliano:

20: 18 goals/45 points
21: 18 goals/38 points
22: 10 goals/28 points
23: 11 goals/35 points
24: 13 goals/26 points
25: 22 goal/39 point pace
26: 21 goals/42 points
27: 15 goals/29 points


Cogliano signed a 4 year deal worth $3M a year in the middle of a 21 goal/42 point season while coming off a 22 goal/39 point pace season. Not sure why Sutter garners a 46% premium with a full NTC and an extra year.

He is taller?

 

[drax0s]

Cogliano signed a 4 year deal worth $3M a year in the middle of a 21 goal/42 point season while coming off a 22 goal/39 point pace season. Not sure why Sutter garners a 46% premium with a full NTC and an extra year.

Cogliano's GA/60 is vastly inferior and he's been playing wing - not centre (although to be fair that seems it may be changing with Sutter?)

 

[Vtownfan]

Hyperbole just serves to discredit your argument -- stick to the facts, dude. As for your comments, on his two goals, the Sedins in no way did the heavy lifting - Sutter without a doubt earned those two. His Assists are the only thing I could consider gimmes, likely from faceoff wins or whatever.

LOL! Yes hyperbole never happens on a hockey forum. Wow, Dwight must be your spirit animal.

Sedins set up the goals. Is what it is. 4 out of his whopping 9 points came from directly playing with the Sedins. He has yet to show he has much playmaking ability or the ability to make those around him better.

When taken of their line and centering his own, he went on a 6 game 0-fer streak.

 

[drax0s]

LOL! Yes hyperbole never happens on a hockey forum. Wow, Dwight must be your spirit animal.

Easy with the ad hominem attacks. If you can't handle having someone point out that what you posted on a forum is a blatant exaggeration (and not actual fact), maybe you need to take a break and develop thicker skin.

Also, the Sedins didn't "set up his goals". On one, he caught a rebound out of the air and batted it in. Not an easy goal to score. The next, He gained the zone and dropped it back and found open ice. It was a nice pass from Daniel, for sure, but doesn't happen without Sutter doing the heavy lifting.

If you can't see that, you aren't really trying.

 

[Vtownfan]

Easy with the ad hominem attacks. If you can't handle having someone point out that what you posted on a forum is a blatant exaggeration (and not actual fact), maybe you need to take a break and develop thicker skin.

Also, the Sedins didn't "set up his goals". On one, he caught a rebound out of the air and batted it in. Not an easy goal to score. The next, He gained the zone and dropped it back and found open ice. It was a nice pass from Daniel, for sure, but doesn't happen without Sutter doing the heavy lifting.

If you can't see that, you aren't really trying.

LOL I think if anyone needs thicker skin it's you.

Did a Sedin make the pass that resulted in a goal yes or no? If Yes the points were a direct result of a Sedin action. Sorry if YOU can't handle that truth.

Go back and find where I ever said Sutter wasn't a decent player. All I have ever said is it is to soon to tell and to date he hasn't shown he can be a consistent offensive generator without the Sedins. I sure hope he does. Stuck with him for the next 5 years at a pretty hefty cap hit.

You seem highly invested in trying to make Sutter out to be the next freaking Gretzky or something. Can't quite figure out why as of yet.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Take a deep breath people.

 

[Toxic0n]

So yeah... generally off but occasionally close!

That describes Benning's trading and asset management perfectly

 

[denkiteki]

Sutter's numbers are pretty similar to Cogliano's if you look at their production at different ages (though Cogliano's are a little better):

Sutter:

20: 21 goals/40 points
21: 14 goals/29 points
22: 17 goals/32 points
23: 19 goal/32 point pace
24: 13 goals/26 points
25: 21 goals/33 points


Cogliano:

20: 18 goals/45 points
21: 18 goals/38 points
22: 10 goals/28 points
23: 11 goals/35 points
24: 13 goals/26 points
25: 22 goal/39 point pace
26: 21 goals/42 points
27: 15 goals/29 points


Cogliano signed a 4 year deal worth $3M a year in the middle of a 21 goal/42 point season while coming off a 22 goal/39 point pace season. Not sure why Sutter garners a 46% premium with a full NTC and an extra year.

One difference is Cogliano started off in an offensive role with the Oilers before being moved to the 3rd line with the Ducks. He was basically a top 6 forwards for a few years while Sutter really was 3rd line C regardless of where he went.

 

[Cupless44]

While this thread meanders endlessly, Brandon Sutter is far from the worst player on the Canucks and far from the biggest problem.

I think he has played decently this year when healthy.

 

[stuffradio]

While this thread meanders endlessly, Brandon Sutter is far from the worst player on the Canucks and far from the biggest problem.

I think he has played decently this year when healthy.

He was dangerous (he had a scoring chance) almost every time he had the puck.

 

[MarkMM]

While this thread meanders endlessly, Brandon Sutter is far from the worst player on the Canucks and far from the biggest problem.

I think he has played decently this year when healthy.

Yeah, I think he's played well and is a better fit than Bonino, the problem is the salary Benning gave him. Better than Bonino? Yes. Worth the salary difference?

...?

If Benning could learn to negotiate a lot of the angst would go away. Not all, but it'd be a start.

 

[Hit the post]

Yeah, I think he's played well and is a better fit than Bonino

...better fit if we had a coach that line matched.

 

[TheWanderer]

Yeah, I think he's played well and is a better fit than Bonino, the problem is the salary Benning gave him. Better than Bonino? Yes. Worth the salary difference?

...?

If Benning could learn to negotiate a lot of the angst would go away. Not all, but it'd be a start.

Sutter's new contract compared to Bonino's new contract, is what people need to realize. When Bonino gets extended/signed/re-signed, that comparison can be made.

The only gripe with Sutter's contract is the timing of it being signed and the trend it carries on. But people don't realize that Sutter maybe thought we were a better team when he signed than he does now after this (expectedly) lousy season. Or maybe he thought he'd be a 2C and underestimated Horvat?

It's no guarantee he would re-sign here later in the season. So there is a little bit of that to consider.


I'm glad to have him here, myself. The "negatives" that go around his acquisition and contract are part of the price, and I still think he's worth it.

But people are going to complain about whatever they can.

 

[Pip]

While this thread meanders endlessly, Brandon Sutter is far from the worst player on the Canucks and far from the biggest problem.

Wow. He should throw that on his resume

 

[MarkMM]

...better fit if we had a coach that line matched.

Very true. We've got a lot of problems, most of them stem from decisions Benning has made so can hopefully learn from them and correct or we can find someone who will.

Sutter's new contract compared to Bonino's new contract, is what people need to realize. When Bonino gets extended/signed/re-signed, that comparison can be made.

The only gripe with Sutter's contract is the timing of it being signed and the trend it carries on. But people don't realize that Sutter maybe thought we were a better team when he signed than he does now after this (expectedly) lousy season. Or maybe he thought he'd be a 2C and underestimated Horvat?

It's no guarantee he would re-sign here later in the season. So there is a little bit of that to consider.


I'm glad to have him here, myself. The "negatives" that go around his acquisition and contract are part of the price, and I still think he's worth it.

But people are going to complain about whatever they can.

Fair point about Bonino's upcoming contract and we'll have to see, but as has been shown by others, there are comparables that would lead one to believe that Sutter could have been re-signed but at a better value. We'll never know for sure, but when you see the deals that Benning gives out the logical explanation is that he did what he consistently does, he overpaid when another GM could have done better.

At the end of the day, Sutter is overpaid but it's not the end of the world amounts, and he'll likely end up not being the worst of the overpaid contracts. They do add up over time, but I have bigger problems with Sbisa and getting Prust and overpaying Dorsett in dollars and term for example.

Wow. He should throw that on his resume

LOL

 

[VanJack]

While this thread meanders endlessly, Brandon Sutter is far from the worst player on the Canucks and far from the biggest problem.

I think he has played decently this year when healthy.

Sure he's played decently..and if he 'keeps playing decently', maybe he'll even get as much ice-time as Linden Vey?...it's too bad...if only he'd played his junior hockey in Medicine Hat, maybe Willie would remember that Sutter is due to make $4.5m next season, and that Benning traded for him and paid him big bucks as a second-line centre.

 

[Addison Rae]

isn't he suppose to be a matchup centre? So far he's playing the easiest minutes among Canucks centres this year...
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#snip=f

 

[pahlsson]

isn't he suppose to be a matchup centre? So far he's playing the easiest minutes among Canucks centres this year...
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#snip=f

he's getting cushy minutes to up his totals and appease fans

and it's working so far considering how many people are still supporting this trade and resigning

 

[geebaan]

he's getting cushy minutes to up his totals and appease fans

and it's working so far considering how many people are still supporting this trade and resigning

It's amazing really.

 

[opendoor]

Yeah, last night his top 3 forward opponents in terms of TOI were Stajan, Jones, and Ferland. Horvat got Gaudreau and Bennett in his. The game before he was matched up mostly against Calvert and Karlsson while Horvat got Saad, Wennberg, and Dubinsky.

The coaches aren't even using him to do the one thing that he's really good at and was pretty much the only rational justification for acquiring him.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Our coaching staff does not match lines. If one of our forwards played most of his shifts against a certain player it's because the other coach engineered it.

Sutter was never a (successful) match-up centre anywhere else, but if Benning intended to use him that way he'd need to first hire a coach that doesn't roll 1-2-3-4 all game, every game.

 

[CherryToke]

isn't he suppose to be a matchup centre? So far he's playing the easiest minutes among Canucks centres this year...
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#snip=f

The guy that is brought in to support the rookie's is playing the softest minutes. Sounds about right for a Willie D coached team.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Angry Canucks fan before game: "Willy D doesn't match lines!!1!"

Angry Canucks fan after the game "Lawl Willie d doesn't even use Sutter as a match up Center!"

 

[Addison Rae]

Angry Canucks fan before game: "Willy D doesn't match lines!!1!"

Angry Canucks fan after the game "Lawl Willie d doesn't even use Sutter as a match up Center!"

Huh? Suggesting that he doesn't match lines is somewhat ridiculous, there's a reason why Tanev's QOC is much higher than Sbisa's.

Sutter is playing the easiest minutes among Canucks centres this year and it's absolutely ridiculous for a guy brought in to ease Horvat and handle the tough match ups. Hilariously enough the guy he was traded for played the toughest minutes in the organization last year, which actually did free up Horvat to play against easy competition.