Prospect Info: Brandon Saigeon C (2018 140th overall)

Canadian Game

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If they signed him, he would need to immediately go play in the AHL/ECHL. He’s a 20 year old playing his overage season in the OHL.

Avs will sign him when the Generals finish their season.
That's not quite correct. Players can still be sent back to their CHL team when signed to a NHL contract even if they are 20 playing their overage season, but it doesn't happen much. The NHL team would need to make the decision though. Players who turn 20 by the end of the calendar year (Dec.31) are eligible for the AHL, and players who have played 4 years in the CHL are also eligible (meaning CHL players given exceptional status at age 15 can play in the AHL at age 19). Sean Day, who was given exceptional status as a 15 year old to the OHL, played 4 years and was sent back to the OHL last year even though he was eligible for the AHL at age 19. It is rare though that 20 year olds are sent back to the OHL but it has happened.

I would think Colorado wanted the flexibility with their contract room since they are at 47 of 50 contracts. Makar and Bowers aren't signed yet, so 2 of those spots would go to those guys if they were to sign this season and Colorado gave them ice time once the NCAA season is over, and NHL teams generally don't like to be pressed up against the wall at the 50 contract limit.
 
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henchman21

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Actually think it is a sly move pushing to an AHL deal first. That step from juniors to AHL is huge and not every player can transition well. The Avs have a chance to see what he can do prior to tying up a contract spot. Now if they go and find a way to waste another spot on another Josh Anderson...
 
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Avs_19

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They're really going to make him earn that ELC, huh? For his sake, hopefully he isn't buried on the AHL depth chart and gets his deal.
 
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Pokecheque

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Listening to the TOOA podcast on prospect rankings, a few of them appear convinced that there's some kind of disconnect in the front office on this guy and that they're not that high on him. I dunno, I don't necessarily get the impression they're souring on him already, in fact the rather unusual way they're handling him makes me think they believe he's worth the effort, but might want to see what he can do in the pros for a bit--there might be some skepticism that his monster year in junior was largely due to being an overager.

This is an interesting look at drafting of overagers, the Pens lead the pack by a wide margin but the Avs are way up there as well. The Stars, on the other hand, don't want anything to do with them.

They won't let me post the whole thread so just click on it to read it.
 
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Pierce Hawthorne

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I dont really see how this could be conceived as anything but a good move for the Avs.

I like Saigeon, but he was drafted out of the 5th round as an overager, and even though he did have a great year last year, he was also 20. It's a difficult transition to go from Junior to the AHL and we have seen countless players with drafted higher and with more perceived upside than Saigeon struggle to ever make that transition successfully and ultimately fizzle out at the AHL level.

So to me this is a great way to keep the guy within the organization, give him a legit shot to play AHL hockey and prove to the Avs that he is a player worthy of an NHL contract and make him work hard to earn that potential NHL contract and a shot at an NHL career.

I think he has Bottom 6 forward upside, but there's also a very high chance he does nothing in the AHL this year and in that case this is a nice move where if things dont go well we saved ourselves some extra contract space in case we need it. And if things do go well it shouldn't be hard to get him signed to an NHL deal after this season.

I'm a little surprised Saigeon would go this route honestly but if he believes in himself and wants to stick with a potentially very strong organization to be a part of going forward(Even though our development track record is less than ideal) then it makes sense to bet on himself this way.
 

McMetal

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Listening to the TOOA podcast on prospect rankings, a few of them appear convinced that there's some kind of disconnect in the front office on this guy and that they're not that high on him. I dunno, I don't necessarily get the impression they're souring on him already, in fact the rather unusual way they're handling him makes me think they believe he's worth the effort, but might want to see what he can do in the pros for a bit--there might be some skepticism that his monster year in junior was largely due to being an overager.
I have to agree with that assessment. It seems funny that they would spend a fifth on him and then decide they weren't going to bother with an AHL contract the very next fall and send him back to the OHL for an overage season, then not commit to an ELC after he did everything that could reasonably be expected for an overager in the OHL. It just seems like they want to keep him at arm's length despite apparently liking him enough that they felt they should have drafted him a year earlier. There has to be some disconnect there between the scouting staff and the management,
 
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henchman21

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I have to agree with that assessment. It seems funny that they would spend a fifth on him and then decide they weren't going to bother with an AHL contract the very next fall and send him back to the OHL for an overage season, then not commit to an ELC after he did everything that could reasonably be expected for an overager in the OHL. It just seems like they want to keep him at arm's length despite apparently liking him enough that they felt they should have drafted him a year earlier. There has to be some disconnect there between the scouting staff and the management,

5th round picks are not really valued... 1st and 2nds will get all the chances they can. 3rd+ is basically a crapshoot, and teams hold back on committing to them quite frequently.
 

McMetal

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5th round picks are not really valued... 1st and 2nds will get all the chances they can. 3rd+ is basically a crapshoot, and teams hold back on committing to them quite frequently.
I suppose that's true, but the Avs as an org have generally had no problem making similar commitments to late round picks. Barron, Boikov, and Nantel were all tendered ELCs despite having little to no chance of NHL success. Saigeon has had a better junior career than any of those names, so it still seems strange that they're adopting the cautionary approach now, especially with the AHL team so weak at forward.
 

henchman21

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I suppose that's true, but the Avs as an org have generally had no problem making similar commitments to late round picks. Barron, Boikov, and Nantel were all tendered ELCs despite having little to no chance of NHL success. Saigeon has had a better junior career than any of those names, so it still seems strange that they're adopting the cautionary approach now, especially with the AHL team so weak at forward.

I’d hope that they learned from giving those sorts of players ELCs and that is the reason. You could include Anderson too. Know when to cut bait and not double down on a slip up.
 

Canadian Game

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I dont really see how this could be conceived as anything but a good move for the Avs.

I like Saigeon, but he was drafted out of the 5th round as an overager, and even though he did have a great year last year, he was also 20. It's a difficult transition to go from Junior to the AHL and we have seen countless players with drafted higher and with more perceived upside than Saigeon struggle to ever make that transition successfully and ultimately fizzle out at the AHL level.

So to me this is a great way to keep the guy within the organization, give him a legit shot to play AHL hockey and prove to the Avs that he is a player worthy of an NHL contract and make him work hard to earn that potential NHL contract and a shot at an NHL career.

I think he has Bottom 6 forward upside, but there's also a very high chance he does nothing in the AHL this year and in that case this is a nice move where if things dont go well we saved ourselves some extra contract space in case we need it. And if things do go well it shouldn't be hard to get him signed to an NHL deal after this season.

I'm a little surprised Saigeon would go this route honestly but if he believes in himself and wants to stick with a potentially very strong organization to be a part of going forward(Even though our development track record is less than ideal) then it makes sense to bet on himself this way.
Saigeon was drafted right before entering his over-age season and was an Avs draft pick through the OA season between playing in Hamilton and Oshawa. Being drafted at age 20 gets brought up a fair amount among fans and media but very few understand the details as to why that was.

Coles notes:
- broke arm partway through first draft eligible season as a 17 year old.
- was mismanaged by new coach as an 18 year old for half a season often playing 3rd line wing or C, or scratched. Tore up the second half once he was managed correctly.
- before being drafted after his 19 year old season was often rotated between #1 and #2 C. Became a versatile C who had chemistry with anyone the coach paired him. Eventually was a mainstay LW beside Robert Thomas in the playoffs, and the 2 became setup guys for each other. Won OHL championship with Hamilton Bulldogs.

Longer version:
In his first draft eligible year, he was playing quite well and the development became very noticeable until he broke his arm (ulna and radius) after crashing into a goal post and was done for the season, which took over a year to fully recover. With the uncertainty of the recovery, and limited viewing as a 17 year old, he was passed on. After the draft, the Toronto Maple Leafs invited him to their development camp. For their blue vs white games, Saigeon was often used to take the faceoffs against Auston Matthews.

The next season as an 18 year old, Hamilton had a new coach who completely mis-handled Saigeon and was literally oblivious to his skill set. How that was possible is still beyond anyone’s comprehension since the coach didn’t even realize Saigeon played center. For the first half of the season Saigeon was plugged as a wing on the 3rd line (occasionally 3rd line C). The coach was oblivious to the type of center Saigeon was, or that he was a top face off guy. Saigeon was even scratched Saigeon on occasion. It wasn’t until halfway through the season, soon after the trade deadline, a media guy was having a conversation with the coach and the coach realized he had been handling Saigeon incorrectly (this was explained in better detail mid game during a home tv broadcast by the media guy). Since then, Saigeon was handled correctly and generally played second line C. This time the Edmonton Oilers invited Saigeon to their development camp after the draft.

As a 19 year old, Saigeon was often the second line C, and occasionally top C. He brought versatility because he had chemistry with any wingers he played with on a very deep team (Will Bitten, Matthew Strome, Nick Caamano, Arthur Kaliyev, Marian Studenic, Isaac Nurse, etc). When Hamilton acquired Robert Thomas, Saigeon played 2nd line C. Thomas had troubles finding chemistry and eventually Saigeon was tried as a LW with Thomas, which the 2 gained instant chemistry and were a solid pairing in the top line, and the RW was often Nurse or Strome. Hamilton then went on to win the OHL championship and a few weeks later he was drafted by Colorado.

If anyone is ever interested in looking up line combos, search Teri Pecoskie (from the Hamilton Spectator) on twitter, go to the media tab, and she posts line combos every game. It’s an excellent reference to search who he, or anyone else, was grouped with.

Just wanted to kind of clear the air since people just look at the surface and see X player was drafted later, and assume they must not be that good of a player. In many cases, there is underlying reasoning, which outside media and fans don’t realize, and the media often fails to research. All media need to do is pick up a phone and contact local media where prospects came from to get a better picture of players’ careers and development so that they can accurately report. All of this stuff about Saigeon is public knowledge as Hamilton Bulldogs fans saw it first hand until he was traded to Oshawa at the deadline last season.
 

Patagonia

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Saigeon was drafted right before entering his over-age season and was an Avs draft pick through the OA season between playing in Hamilton and Oshawa. Being drafted at age 20 gets brought up a fair amount among fans and media but very few understand the details as to why that was.

Coles notes:
- broke arm partway through first draft eligible season as a 17 year old.
- was mismanaged by new coach as an 18 year old for half a season often playing 3rd line wing or C, or scratched. Tore up the second half once he was managed correctly.
- before being drafted after his 19 year old season was often rotated between #1 and #2 C. Became a versatile C who had chemistry with anyone the coach paired him. Eventually was a mainstay LW beside Robert Thomas in the playoffs, and the 2 became setup guys for each other. Won OHL championship with Hamilton Bulldogs.

Longer version:
In his first draft eligible year, he was playing quite well and the development became very noticeable until he broke his arm (ulna and radius) after crashing into a goal post and was done for the season, which took over a year to fully recover. With the uncertainty of the recovery, and limited viewing as a 17 year old, he was passed on. After the draft, the Toronto Maple Leafs invited him to their development camp. For their blue vs white games, Saigeon was often used to take the faceoffs against Auston Matthews.

Thanks for the post!

He has really surprised and initially not happy with the selection, but he has really improved the last few seasons. I believe it'll be 1 season in the AHL and will join the AVs in 2020/21 playing 4C.

The next season as an 18 year old, Hamilton had a new coach who completely mis-handled Saigeon and was literally oblivious to his skill set. How that was possible is still beyond anyone’s comprehension since the coach didn’t even realize Saigeon played center. For the first half of the season Saigeon was plugged as a wing on the 3rd line (occasionally 3rd line C). The coach was oblivious to the type of center Saigeon was, or that he was a top face off guy. Saigeon was even scratched Saigeon on occasion. It wasn’t until halfway through the season, soon after the trade deadline, a media guy was having a conversation with the coach and the coach realized he had been handling Saigeon incorrectly (this was explained in better detail mid game during a home tv broadcast by the media guy). Since then, Saigeon was handled correctly and generally played second line C. This time the Edmonton Oilers invited Saigeon to their development camp after the draft.

As a 19 year old, Saigeon was often the second line C, and occasionally top C. He brought versatility because he had chemistry with any wingers he played with on a very deep team (Will Bitten, Matthew Strome, Nick Caamano, Arthur Kaliyev, Marian Studenic, Isaac Nurse, etc). When Hamilton acquired Robert Thomas, Saigeon played 2nd line C. Thomas had troubles finding chemistry and eventually Saigeon was tried as a LW with Thomas, which the 2 gained instant chemistry and were a solid pairing in the top line, and the RW was often Nurse or Strome. Hamilton then went on to win the OHL championship and a few weeks later he was drafted by Colorado.

If anyone is ever interested in looking up line combos, search Teri Pecoskie (from the Hamilton Spectator) on twitter, go to the media tab, and she posts line combos every game. It’s an excellent reference to search who he, or anyone else, was grouped with.

Just wanted to kind of clear the air since people just look at the surface and see X player was drafted later, and assume they must not be that good of a player. In many cases, there is underlying reasoning, which outside media and fans don’t realize, and the media often fails to research. All media need to do is pick up a phone and contact local media where prospects came from to get a better picture of players’ careers and development so that they can accurately report. All of this stuff about Saigeon is public knowledge as Hamilton Bulldogs fans saw it first hand until he was traded to Oshawa at the deadline last season.
 

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