Brandon "Meat & Butter" Sutter

[tantalum]

People realize his extension hasn't kicked in yet right? You're calling a guy over-paid after 12 games and a year before the contract they signed him to even begins...

Given the retroactive NTC that covers this season a portion of the extension has indeed kicked in. While the canucks aren't paying $4.4 mil for him yet, the years of NTCs he has pretty much ties him to the team...for all intents and purposes we may as well discuss it now because he isn't going anywhere. And quite frankly $3.3 mil isn't that great either when the assets given up are considered. It would be at the very upper end of what you'd want to pay a player of his ilk in a stagnating cap environment the league is in right now. And pretty much the reason the Pens moved him. He wasn't bringing the value they were paying for in their eyes and certainly wouldn't if he got a raise.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Once again, let's wait until the Titanic hits the iceberg and starts sinking before we roll out the life boats.

This is my point. We're whining about a contract that is 10 months or so from even kicking in and a long way from knowing if it was a poor choice or not. It was a risky maneuver, but the jury should still be out at least until he's had half a season here. Flames management talking about Dougie Hamilton needing to play an entire year in Calgary to get comfortable in new surroundings and a new role before any real judgments should be made, but we're expecting Sutter to live up to his contract (that hasn't even kicked in I remind you) immediately.

He would have been a 27 year old UFA. He makes 3.3 million this year. What were people expecting it would cost to keep a prime aged UFA from hitting the market?

I think Canucks fans got a little spoiled by players accepting less to play in Vancouver. We're not that caliber of a team anymore.

 

[Fat Tony]

This is my point. We're whining about a contract that is 10 months or so from even kicking in

With the NTC, it already kicked in.

Flames management talking about Dougie Hamilton needing to play an entire year in Calgary to get comfortable in new surroundings and a new role before any real judgments should be made

Hamilton is playing worse than he has shown in the past. Sutter has not.

He would have been a 27 year old UFA. He makes 3.3 million this year. What were people expecting it would cost to keep a prime aged UFA from hitting the market?

This is an aside but I believe most forwards are past their primes by the time they hit UFA. The Sedins were a very notable exception.

 

[thepuckmonster]

With the NTC, it already kicked in.



Hamilton is playing worse than he has shown in the past. Sutter has not.



This is an aside but I believe most forwards are past their primes by the time they hit UFA. The Sedins were a very notable exception.

Not if you ask Boston fans. They have been pretty candid in saying that the perception of Dougie's abilities were way overblown on the boards.

 

[pitseleh]

What's his statline away from the Sedins?

His WOWY's are interesting: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=978&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

It's rare for the Sedins to be below 50% in C%. Of players they've played 50 minutes with, Daniel has only been under 50% with Wellwood and Lapierre. Henrik is also below 50% with Booth and Glass.

Small sample, but he's in rare company. His numbers with the Sedins are just as bad if you restrict to score close and ZS adjusted.

He's gotten much better results without the Sedins, even though his goal numbers are propped up by some good luck when playing with them.

 

[Fat Tony]

Not if you ask Boston fans. They have been pretty candid in saying that the perception of Dougie's abilities were way overblown on the boards.

I'm talking about what he's actually shown. As for Boston fans, I'm seeing the opposite views in my brief perusal with the main complaint being his lack of angry. But look long enough, you'll find opinions running the gamut. That's this forum for you.

 

[Reign Nateo]

With the NTC, it already kicked in.

Hamilton is playing worse than he has shown in the past. Sutter has not.

This is an aside but I believe most forwards are past their primes by the time they hit UFA. The Sedins were a very notable exception.

I don't see what the NTC has to do with anything. So you're fine with the money now but you have a problem with the NTC? NTC don't mean much anyway. People waive them every year.

Hamilton is being given time to adjust to a new role and team. Sutter is not.

You're just proving my point with your last sentence really. You're exactly right, most players that actually get to UFA are passed their primes, which is why in order to get a guy to forego his chance at UFA at a young age, you have to pay them.

Sutter makes 3.3 million this year. If he was an RFA he would need to give him 110% of his current salary anyway. Add to that you're buying his chance at being a prime age UFA and this is what you get. You can argue that he was the wrong guy to bring in and you don't believe in him as a player, but the contract is market value and if the Canucks didn't give it to him, someone else would have.

 

[topched88]

What has he done when not playing with the Sedins?

Seriously... What has sutter done to make him worth 4m+?

Absolutely nothing. The contract is a albatross.

Albatross? lol. He has been good so far this season, and I would take him over bones 100% player to player. Anyone who is full of complaints about him this year are not watching objectively.Why do you guys even cheer for this team? Is it actually fun to sit there waiting for news to complain about?

 

[y2kcanucks]

People realize his extension hasn't kicked in yet right? You're calling a guy over-paid after 12 games and a year before the contract they signed him to even begins...

This makes that contract extension that much worse.

 

[VC]

That makes things better?

He is trying to say he is playing closer to the 3.3 million player that he currently is. His new contract is overpaid for sure. At his current price tag, he is fine.

 

[y2kcanucks]

He is trying to say he is playing closer to the 3.3 million player that he currently is. His new contract is overpaid for sure. At his current price tag, he is fine.

So we should be happy that this big contract that's long-term is coming up? Or do we think that once it kicks in he'll magically improve his play?

 

[y2kcanucks]

It's worth noting that Sutter has 1 goal and 1 assist in his last 8 games. He only has points in 4 of his 12 games this season. He has also not been efficient in his ice-time, as a poor Corsi player, who also doesn't have a good P/60.

 

[The Jesus*]

So we should be happy that this big contract that's long-term is coming up? Or do we think that once it kicks in he'll magically improve his play?

He is making $4.3m a year. He can play on the top line with the Sedins when management finally finds someone stupid enough to give up assets for Vrbata. He can play wing alongside Horvat on the 2nd line, or if Bo is struggling he can play the 2c role himself. At 3c, he'd be one of the best in the entire league.

He gives us flexibility. Can move up and down the lineup, and fill any holes that arise. Gives the coach a boatload more options to tinker with the lineup when things aren't working. Is good defensively, and is a big asset on the PK where we're super thin at with the center position. Should put up close to 40 points. And for only $4.3m a year? What exactly is it you're complaining about again?

Oh, right. The Sedins.

 

[y2kcanucks]

He is making $4.3m a year. He can play on the top line with the Sedins when management finally finds someone stupid enough to give up assets for Vrbata. He can play wing alongside Horvat on the 2nd line, or if Bo is struggling he can play the 2c role himself. At 3c, he'd be one of the best in the entire league.

He gives us flexibility. Can move up and down the lineup, and fill any holes that arise. Gives the coach a boatload more options to tinker with the lineup when things aren't working. Is good defensively, and is a big asset on the PK where we're super thin at with the center position. Should put up close to 40 points. And for only $4.3m a year? What exactly is it you're complaining about again?

Oh, right. The Sedins.

He is certainly not a top line winger, nor is he a legitimate 2C. He gets dominated when he's on the ice and his offensive production isn't anything great.

I would be surprised if he put up 40 points, but hey, he leads our team in ice-time so anything's possible I suppose. Not sure how a player who's P/60 is worse than the two rookies we have who our coach refuses to play, is good, but YMMV.

 

[opendoor]

People need to consider output within the context of minutes. 40 points from a guy getting 15 minutes a night and a bit of PP time is one thing. 40 points from a guy who leads your forwards in ice time is another.

And that even assumes that Sutter can reach that mark, which is something he has done once in his career. Though if he continues to get nearly 20 minutes a night that would be damned near impossible not to. Zajac and Doan were the only guys in the NHL to not manage a 40+ point pace with 18.5 minutes or more a night last season.

 

[VC]

So we should be happy that this big contract that's long-term is coming up? Or do we think that once it kicks in he'll magically improve his play?

Well I said the contract that is about to be kicked in is overpaid so...

Current contact is fine, the next is a million overpaid. Not an albatross but not good either.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Well I said the contract that is about to be kicked in is overpaid so...

Current contact is fine, the next is a million overpaid. Not an albatross but not good either.

This just is more of that death by 1000 papercuts, and its a worrying trend when it happens over and over again.

 

[Ho Borvat]

He is making $4.3m a year. He can play on the top line with the Sedins when management finally finds someone stupid enough to give up assets for Vrbata. He can play wing alongside Horvat on the 2nd line, or if Bo is struggling he can play the 2c role himself. At 3c, he'd be one of the best in the entire league.

He gives us flexibility. Can move up and down the lineup, and fill any holes that arise. Gives the coach a boatload more options to tinker with the lineup when things aren't working. Is good defensively, and is a big asset on the PK where we're super thin at with the center position. Should put up close to 40 points. And for only $4.3m a year? What exactly is it you're complaining about again?

So he is essentially Jannik Hansen, but can play center? Glad hes making 2 million a season more than Hansen/Higgins.

 

[VC]

This just is more of that death by 1000 papercuts, and its a worrying trend when it happens over and over again.

While for the most part each of this overpaid contracts are not crippling individually but yes with the amount of them the team has it will cost the team quality somewhere. While I do like like Sutter in a 3rd line role, just not at 2nd line money.

 

[Verviticus]

So he is essentially Jannik Hansen, but can play center? Glad hes making 2 million a season more than Hansen/Higgins.

well thats why henrik makes $14m. 2x bonus for centre position

 

[deckercky]

His WOWY's are interesting: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=978&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

It's rare for the Sedins to be below 50% in C%. Of players they've played 50 minutes with, Daniel has only been under 50% with Wellwood and Lapierre. Henrik is also below 50% with Booth and Glass.

Small sample, but he's in rare company. His numbers with the Sedins are just as bad if you restrict to score close and ZS adjusted.

He's gotten much better results without the Sedins, even though his goal numbers are propped up by some good luck when playing with them.

It's worth noting that since it's such a small sample size, and his shooting percentage was abnormally high in that sample, the corsi will be deflated to some extent (when you don't score, you can maintain possession and get additional chances).

 

[KeninsFan]

So he is essentially Jannik Hansen, but can play center? Glad hes making 2 million a season more than Hansen/Higgins.

I've stood by this comment for a while but here's how I would rank them:

Hansen (elite 3rd liner)
.
.
.
Sutter
.
Higgins

 

[Ho Borvat]

While for the most part each of this overpaid contracts are not crippling individually but yes with the amount of them the team has it will cost the team quality somewhere. While I do like like Sutter in a 3rd line role, just not at 2nd line money.

This is the thing.

If he was signed to slightly more than Higgins/Hansen (who for all intents and purposes are comparable players in terms of impact they make to an NHL team) this would be a fine deal, and we would have no issues.

Benning had all kinds of leverage to negotiate a fair deal, and ended up overpaying. Its happened on every contract with the exception of the Tanev deal and a few minor deals.

Benning should not be allowed to handle contract negotiations, and its an embarrassment they let Laurence Gilman go.

 

[Ho Borvat]

I've stood by this comment for a while but here's how I would rank them:

Hansen (elite 3rd liner)
.
.
.
Sutter
.
Higgins

I would lump them all into the same tier of player and its essentially pretty close to a wash (although I agree with your rankings).

 

[mathonwy]

Absolutely brutal game today by Sutter.

- Channeled his inner Bonino and turned into a black hole of possession.
- Throwing the puck up the middle to nobody in particular
- Massive detriment to his two linemates in Burr and Virt.
- Most definitely not a top 6 player today.

At least when Prust doesn't do stuff in a game, there's usually one or two staged fights to placate the masses. Sutter today was literally hurting his linemates with his useless play.

I usually try to not throw players under the bus but Sutter's play today was a special type of bad.