Bowen Byram vs. Quinn Hughes

[John Mandalorian]

maybe he's dismissed because Hughes (and Makar) put up the best offensive numbers by a young D in a few decades and Byram just isn't anywhere close.

Now the argument is that Hughes would somehow get so much worse with less responsibility. The idea that his numbers would go down without PP time and that's somehow a strike is ridiculous, in that it applies to every single PP dman in the league. There isn't a single one who wouldn't see their numbers drop if they stopped getting PP1 time.

"Honest with themselves about his limitations" says the fan of a team that ignores both Byrams health and production in order to justify him being better than a top 5 dman.

Canucks fans are the only ones honest about Hughes limitations. Everyone else acts like he's Tyson Barrie.

You're ignoring some things and conflating several things.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Not in 2019.

Hughes had a bad second season, every other year he's been better.

no not in 2019 but in 2020-21 and 2021-22 toews finished higher in norris voting.

 

[Breakers]

I mean, Avs fans thought Girard was better than Hughes. Might want to check your superiority complex.

LOL
Covid divisions
Guy came back to reality so damn quick after that.

Funny what happens to your underlying numbers when you are only playing the same 6 teams.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

At the moment, Hughes.

Not sure why we're comparing Byram to guys who have been in the league 3+ years longer than him. The Byram/Seider, Byram/York polls make sense, those kids are in the same draft year. Give the Byram some time, he's not even off his ELC yet. He very well could pass Hughes if he can stay healthy.

I flat out dont think you can compare Byram to anyone. There is not another guy around with his combination of:
1) Skillset.
2) MAJOR injury history.
3) NHL accomplishment (i.e. he is a clear top half of the lineup player).
4) Youth.

At one point, Byram seemed like he might be out of the league by 25 despite looking really damn impressive. Who else can you say that about?

Given his injury history, Byram will likely begin his peak later than the average guy. Its just a very unique situation. If he can string together long periods of health (and by that I dont mean avoiding any & all injuries, but avoiding injuries that prevent him from developing any type of rhythm), there is no reason why he cant follow a developmental curve in his 22-25yr old seasons similar to what his peers hit in their 20-23yr old seasons.

 

[Regal]

no not in 2019 but in 2020-21 and 2021-22 toews finished higher in norris voting.

Eh, a lot goes into Norris voting and having good numbers on a good team is a big part of it. Toews is really good but last season was as much about him making the most of a great situation as his ability. I doubt he would get many Norris votes on Vancouver.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

I want to see the identification of everyone that voted for Byram. Do it now.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Eh, a lot goes into Norris voting and having good numbers on a good team is a big part of it. Toews is really good but last season was as much about him making the most of a great situation as his ability. I doubt he would get many Norris votes on Vancouver.

i dont think thats true at all. you'll likely see karlsson win the norris on a bottom 5 team

 

[avsfan09]

23 points in 43 games is not "over ppg" nor is he on track for 20 goals.

I understand. But was responding to someone who said he wasn’t even .5ppg which I was correcting and than typed out incorrectly haha.

He is on pace for 20 goals though. He’s played 40 games not 43.

the irony here hahaa

Touche. I was responding to a poster that said he wasn’t over 1/2 ppg which is what I meant to write.

 

[avsfan09]

23 pts in 39 games is over ppg now?

Also, this is the only player in the league where stating 'no PP1 time' is somehow a positive. Like I get he's behind Makar on the depth chart but even when Makar has been out, Toews has been used in that PP1 spot ahead of Byram.

Byram is not this dominating force some of you are making him out to be. He's an insanely talented young d-man who has the tools to be a good #1. Oh, that's interesting...so like Hughes is?

Yeah I messed up. Poster said he wasn’t even 1/2 ppg and that’s what I meant to type.

But yes he absolutely has incredibly dominant stretches including being arguably our best defensemen in the finals. I stand by that at his best he can be as influential on a game as Makar. Consistency isn’t there and health.

well no, everyone else is much much much much better.

The Canucks don't have a Rantanen, Landeskog, Toews, ... The reest of the team is a huge mess.

Now avs fans seem to think that Makar, Toews, and now apparently Byram are all better than Hughes. That's just not true.

Who thinks Toews is better?

 

[mistergreat]

I understand. But was responding to someone who said he wasn’t even .5ppg which I was correcting and than typed out incorrectly haha.

He is on pace for 20 goals though. He’s played 40 games not 43.


Touche. I was responding to a poster that said he wasn’t over 1/2 ppg which is what I meant to write.

I meant playoffs he's 9 points in 20 games that's what I meant by saying "winning a cup but being less than 1/2 PPG" But since I didn't mention playoffs I can see why you got confused. He hasn't played over 40 games in 3 seasons yikes lmao that's a red flag.

 

[klozge]

I believe Byram can become the more complete dman but Hughes simply is too good offensively (without being weak defensively) to not have the better career imo.

 

[avsfan09]

I meant playoffs he's 9 points in 20 games that's what I meant by saying "winning a cup but being less than 1/2 PPG" But since I didn't mention playoffs I can see why you got confused. He hasn't played over 40 games in 3 seasons yikes lmao that's a red flag.

I really think judging a 20 year old by his point totals in the playoffs is incredibly shallow here. He was especially dominant in the finals as well. No doubt his health is a fair criticism though.

 

[mistergreat]

I really think judging a 20 year old by his point totals in the playoffs is incredibly shallow here. He was especially dominant in the finals as well. No doubt his health is a fair criticism though.

Quinn Hughes was 20 and produced more points in the playoffs than even Makar that year. I judged Quinn Hughes then so why can't I judge Byram here? It's a high bar it is what it is. Don't get me wrong though I like him he's a local BC boy.

 

[avsfan09]

Quinn Hughes was 20 and produced more points in the playoffs than even Makar that year. I judged Quinn Hughes then so why can't I judge Byram here? It's a high bar it is what it is. Don't get me wrong though I like him he's a local BC boy.

Byram is better defensively. Hughes was by far the main weapon offensively of the Canucks Dmen. I’m really not trying to take anything away from Hughes but I’m trying to push back at people who think It is about skill rather than health. It’s also not like Byram was a slouch offensively either. And he was coming off of a long concussion that season and got better as the playoffs went on.

Hughes is better offensively but I think Byram isn’t in as good of a situation to replicate his offensive numbers but his defence and goal scoring very well could close that gap. I just hope that he stays healthy so this is a more amicably received comparison.

 

[lionsDen]

I want to see the identification of everyone that voted for Byram. Do it now.

Someone’s upset

This thread wreaks of butthurt over makar vs Hughes. Canucks fans, not a good look

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Someone’s upset

This thread wreaks of butthurt over makar vs Hughes. Canucks fans, not a good look

Why would I be upset? Hughes is running away with it.

No one I'm aware of mentioned Makar, I didn't mention Makar, and I wasn't even aware there's any debate or even a poll in regards to Makar vs Hughes. Makar, at this time, when he's not injured and he's playing, is better than Hughes.

Oh, I get it now. You agree that Byram can't hold a candle to Hughes, which is the topic of this thread, so you brought up a player who actually can hold a candle to Hughes. You then put your spin on it and throw the narrative you want onto Canucks fans, as if WE are the ones who are "butthurt".

You're a sly one, Mr. Grinch.

Create a Makar vs. Hughes thread if that's what you're champing so hard at the bit for. This isn't it.

 

[Breakers]

Someone’s upset

This thread wreaks of butthurt over makar vs Hughes. Canucks fans, not a good look

LOL
I’ve never seen a player who barely even talks live rent free in a fan bases heads as much as Hughes with colorado

It’s wild

 

[Play]

I hate when Avs and Canucks fans fight , I hate it so much!

 

[The Kingslayer]

Hughes. Bo might be the better defensive dman at his peak but I dont think Bo will get to Hughes offense especially if hes playing behind Makar.

 

[lionsDen]

LOL
I’ve never seen a player who barely even talks live rent free in a fan bases heads as much as Hughes with colorado

It’s wild

It wasn’t an avs fan who created the thread. See right through ya

 

[kranuck]

LOL
I’ve never seen a player who barely even talks live rent free in a fan bases heads as much as Hughes with colorado

It’s wild

Especially given that Makar won the Calder, had a couple seasons where he was better than Hughes by a wide margin, won a norris/smythe/cup, and got annointed the new golden boy of hockey.

 

[Spirits]

two way defender

ok

 

[mkatcherin00]

Hughes. I watched Byram against Edmonton and he cannot handle speed. He could have had 10 penalties. Just wrapping both hands around guys whenever he could lol.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

If Byram can win a unanimous conn smythe I will change my mind.

 

[Rowlet]

Especially given that Makar won the Calder, had a couple seasons where he was better than Hughes by a wide margin, won a norris/smythe/cup, and got annointed the new golden boy of hockey.

They were so upset in the calder race that people even dare say it was close, after voting they even tried to re-invent the narrative that it wasn't actually close at all (116-53) when that was actually the closest voting post lockout in a 2 horse race year, it's sandwiched between Pettersson Binnington (151-18) and Kaprizov/Robertson (99-1) for example.