Prospect Info: Bowen Byram - D [2019: 4th Overall] Part II: Now serving a side of overconfidence!

[Chiarelli]

Can’t help but feel college woulda been the better route for him. Could use some bulking up, playing against bigger players and playing a more pro style game than chl

 

[henchman21]

How has he been defending the front of the net and not allowing the opponents to cycle and get a man open in front?

Worse than you'd ideally want. Pretty much all of Byram's defense needs work and needs to be tailored... but that is where his skill set should really shine. In a projection, his skating, size, smarts, physicality, etc should be ideally suited to be a strong defender. He's going to need work and he hasn't taken that step this year.

 

[Foppa2118]

All of Byram's defense needs work? What an overly negative assessment.

Byram leads all of Canada's players in minutes/game with 19:06 as an 18 year old. A minute more than any other player and four more minutes than Mr Wonderful Kevin Bahl, who some claimed would play more than Byram.

Does anyone think Tourigny would call Byram a key player and say he's played well, and Dale Hunter would praise him and play him more than anyone else if he sucked that bad defensively?

https://www.iihf.com/pdf/422/ihm4220can_83_5_0_can

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Good to know playing more minutes equals automatically playing good. Ryan Graves is basically a borderline Top pairing guy after all.

Of course the coaches are going to say those things. They're not going to say negative things about him to the media.

He's also one of the only Canadian Dmen that plays both the PP and PK as well, so ya his minutes are going to be higher for that reason alone. Addison only plays PP, Bahl and McIsaac only play the PK(I'm not sure Bahl rotates into the PK at all anymore actually). Drysdale doesn't play any of it... And I'm pretty sure JBD only plays PK. The one other Dman that plays both with any regularity is Smith, who plays on the PK with McIsaac and on the same PP unit as Byram.

Actually watch the games and you'd see that at 5 on 5 so far they've basically been doing a clear rotation of the 3 Defensive pairings, with Drysdale subbing in periodically for different guys. But all 3 pairings have gotten basically the same minutes.


Byram has done better against much weaker competition in Slovakia, Germany, and the Czechs. When he played the two teams so far that had legit offensive threats all throughout the lineup, he struggled a bunch(A fair argument would be that so did the rest of the Canada defense).


Lets see how he does the rest of the tournament against the remaining teams, all of which bring a level of offensive skill much higher than the Canadian defense has had to deal with the last 3 games.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

All of Byram's defense needs work? What an overly negative assessment.

Byram leads all of Canada's players in minutes/game with 19:06 as an 18 year old. A minute more than any other player and four more minutes than Mr Wonderful Kevin Bahl, who some claimed would play more than Byram.

Does anyone think Tourigny would call Byram a key player and say he's played well, and Dale Hunter would praise him and play him more than anyone else if he sucked that bad defensively?

https://www.iihf.com/pdf/422/ihm4220can_83_5_0_can

Playing well at world juniors and needing more work to get to an NHL top pairing level. Both possible at same time.

 

[Foppa2118]

Playing well at world juniors and needing more work to get to an NHL top pairing level. Both possible at same time.

This is true of every single 18 year old defenseman though.

 

[Foppa2118]

Good to know playing more minutes equals automatically playing good. Ryan Graves is basically a borderline Top pairing guy after all.

Of course the coaches are going to say those things. They're not going to say negative things about him to the media.

He's also one of the only Canadian Dmen that plays both the PP and PK as well, so ya his minutes are going to be higher for that reason alone. Addison only plays PP, Bahl and McIsaac only play the PK(I'm not sure Bahl rotates into the PK at all anymore actually). Drysdale doesn't play any of it... And I'm pretty sure JBD only plays PK. The one other Dman that plays both with any regularity is Smith, who plays on the PK with McIsaac and on the same PP unit as Byram.

Actually watch the games and you'd see that at 5 on 5 so far they've basically been doing a clear rotation of the 3 Defensive pairings, with Drysdale subbing in periodically for different guys. But all 3 pairings have gotten basically the same minutes.


Byram has done better against much weaker competition in Slovakia, Germany, and the Czechs. When he played the two teams so far that had legit offensive threats all throughout the lineup, he struggled a bunch(A fair argument would be that so did the rest of the Canada defense).


Lets see how he does the rest of the tournament against the remaining teams, all of which bring a level of offensive skill much higher than the Canadian defense has had to deal with the last 3 games.

Good to know you don't realize Graves is 6th in even strength ice time on the Avs, and 5th over all with only 5 more seconds than Cole.

NHL.com Stats

 

[Barklez]

Good to know playing more minutes equals automatically playing good. Ryan Graves is basically a borderline Top pairing guy after all.

Of course the coaches are going to say those things. They're not going to say negative things about him to the media.

He's also one of the only Canadian Dmen that plays both the PP and PK as well, so ya his minutes are going to be higher for that reason alone. Addison only plays PP, Bahl and McIsaac only play the PK(I'm not sure Bahl rotates into the PK at all anymore actually). Drysdale doesn't play any of it... And I'm pretty sure JBD only plays PK. The one other Dman that plays both with any regularity is Smith, who plays on the PK with McIsaac and on the same PP unit as Byram.

Actually watch the games and you'd see that at 5 on 5 so far they've basically been doing a clear rotation of the 3 Defensive pairings, with Drysdale subbing in periodically for different guys. But all 3 pairings have gotten basically the same minutes.


Byram has done better against much weaker competition in Slovakia, Germany, and the Czechs. When he played the two teams so far that had legit offensive threats all throughout the lineup, he struggled a bunch(A fair argument would be that so did the rest of the Canada defense).


Lets see how he does the rest of the tournament against the remaining teams, all of which bring a level of offensive skill much higher than the Canadian defense has had to deal with the last 3 games.

Agreed on much of this and reserving judgement until we see how he fares in the elimination games. I had a similar response typed out before accidentally deleting and abandoning it.

One thing I would add, to Byram’s credit he was one of the only players that visibly didn’t give up in the 3rd of the Russia game. Was a 1-man breakout/zone-entry/forecheck on at least a couple of occasions. I have my reservations about him in general but his attitude in that game started to win me over.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Good to know you don't realize Graves is 6th in even strength ice time on the Avs, and 5th over all with only 5 more seconds than Cole.

NHL.com Stats

Oh, so when we're talking bout Byrams TOI we can use his PP usage and PK usage and factor it in. But for Graves only even strength applies?


Got it

 

[Foppa2118]

Oh, so when we're talking bout Byrams TOI we can use his PP usage and PK usage and factor it in. But for Graves only even strength applies?


Got it

What are you talking about? I gave you the times for both overall and even strength, and Graves was nowhere near the top pairing. He's 5th and 6th.

Why does Byram not get credit for playing the most minutes because he plays on the PP and PK, while simultaneously not getting credit for being good enough defensively to play on the 1st PK unit for Team Canada as an 18 year old?

Does every other #1 D man not get credit for playing the most minutes because they play on both units? They play on both because they're good enough to play on both.

 

[ArWKo]

Almost every 18 year old dman needs work on all of their defense. There's a reason dmen take longer to develop almost across the board than forwards, it's not an insult to say he needs work across the board (which he does).

 

[Foppa2118]

Almost every 18 year old dman needs work on all of their defense. There's a reason dmen take longer to develop almost across the board than forwards, it's not an insult to say he needs work across the board (which he does).

It's also not a coincidence that this isn't said of other defenseman people are fans of like Bahl, but it is of Byram by those who aren't big fans of his.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's also not a coincidence that this isn't said of other defenseman people are fans of like Bahl, but it is of Byram by those who aren't big fans of his.

Oh, so this really is just you picking apart everything Henchy says again.


Nevermind, carry on with your agenda in that case.

 

[Foppa2118]

Oh, so this really is just you picking apart everything Henchy says again.


Nevermind, carry on with your agenda in that case.

No it's about people being overly negative on a daily basis about a prospect they didn't want the Avs to draft, while that same negative commentary is disproved by his own coaches comments and usage. It's the same daily negativity that was on display with Makar.

This daily narrative of bringing up something negative about prospects that people don't like, with incredibly flawed reasoning like they don't deserve credit for leading Team Canada in time on ice because they're good enough to play on the 1st PP and PK units, while being so reluctant with any praise for the things they do well, has gotten very very old.

You wanted to trade Byram just months after he was drafted for three years of Rickard Rakell, who's on pace for less points than Donskoi this year.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Almost every 18 year old dman needs work on all of their defense. There's a reason dmen take longer to develop almost across the board than forwards, it's not an insult to say he needs work across the board (which he does).

People making it seem like we drafted Griffin Reinhart.

 

[henchman21]

Oh, so this really is just you picking apart everything Henchy says again.


Nevermind, carry on with your agenda in that case.

I can only guess what is going on here.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

No it's about people being overly negative on a daily basis about a prospect they didn't want the Avs to draft, while that same negative commentary is disproved by his own coaches comments and usage. It's the same daily negativity that was on display with Makar.

This daily narrative of bringing up something negative about prospects that people don't like, with incredibly flawed reasoning like they don't deserve credit for leading Team Canada in time on ice because they're good enough to play on the 1st PP and PK units, while being so reluctant with any praise for the things they do well, has gotten very very old.

You wanted to trade Byram just months after he was drafted for three years of Rickard Rakell, who's on pace for less points than Donskoi this year.

Prospect Info: - The 2019 Entry NHL Draft Thread - Part IX


Byram was #1 on my list pretty much from the moment the Avs were locked into the #4 pick. He, Turcotte, and Caufield were the 3 guys I wanted.


The complete opposite of not wanting to draft him at all.


As for the 2nd bolded. I just went and looked back through every one of my posts about Byram and didn't find a single one mentioning Byram and Rakell. The names I brought up in any hypothetical Byram trade were Hubedeau, Mantha, and Seth Jones, and ya, I'd move Byram for any of those 3 guys despite the fact he's the Avs best prospect and the guy I wanted at #4.

 

[Foppa2118]

Prospect Info: - The 2019 Entry NHL Draft Thread - Part IX


Byram was #1 on my list pretty much from the moment the Avs were locked into the #4 pick. He, Turcotte, and Caufield were the 3 guys I wanted.


The complete opposite of not wanting to draft him at all.


As for the 2nd bolded. I just went and looked back through every one of my posts about Byram and didn't find a single one mentioning Byram and Rakell. The names I brought up in any hypothetical Byram trade were Hubedeau, Mantha, and Seth Jones, and ya, I'd move Byram for any of those 3 guys despite the fact he's the Avs best prospect and the guy I wanted at #4.

I wasn't referring to you with that first part, I was referring to you with the comment about the PP/PK. You also flip flop on issues and players all the time, and have started being more negative about Byram after he didn't make the team out of camp.

Which is when you started floating the idea of trading him in October (for Rakell and others), and have been the most negative about how he's played at the WJC. Which is contrary to what others have seen from him, including his coaches.

I'm not talking short term with Byram included obviously. I didn't think I'd have to make that clear but I guess so....

I'd be talking a guy like Rakell, Huberdeau, Hall(With an extension), maybe Laine...

Guys with term left who and would be high end players. Not a Kreider/Hoffman type of player.

Newhook is an overrated prospect by our boards. He really is.

 

[S E P H]

Byram's offensive game was overrated due to his production last season. He is a rover type offensively and needs the freedom to play that way to produce at a high level. His shot was a bit overrated too. The decrease in production this season in the dub and WJC should have been expected. That style of play is also very hard to translate to the NHL where there is more structure expected. Those characteristics translate when a player is nearing elite offensively, and I don't see that in Byram. I think he certainly talented and will produce offense in the NHL, I just don't see that roving/one man show sorts working. IMO his game is going to have to change quite a bit when he gets to the NHL and has to round out. I think his skating ability, IQ, physicality and ego are going to be tailor made to be a very good 2 way defender in the NHL... it will just take time for that to happen.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with his tournament so far... he's getting beat 1v1 more than I like and that is where I feel his bread and butter will be in the NHL as that is where his skillset should be able to shine. Obvious there will be a learning curve though.

Solid post, agreed with everything you said.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I wasn't referring to you with that first part, I was referring to you with the comment about the PP/PK. You also flip flop on issues and players all the time, and have started being more negative about Byram after he didn't make the team out of camp.

Which is when you started floating the idea of trading him in October (for Rakell and others), and have been the most negative about how he's played at the WJC. Which is contrary to what others have seen from him, including his coaches.

Fair enough. I mean, I'm not going to let a down year on a team that is struggling to score goals cloud my opinion on Rakell either. He's one of my favorite non Avs players in the league and IF he were made available, I still would consider moving Byram for him. Not a straight up deal but I wouldn't make any prospects untouchable for a guy in his prime who's a proven 30+ Goal, 60+ point forward with sandpaper to his game. Just like how I wasn't married to the idea of keeping the #4 pick and drafting a player with it before the draft. If a good deal presented itself that made us a significantly better team for the next 3-4 years I was fine with moving the #4 pick before the draft. That pick being Byram 6 months later doesn't change that.

I also haven't flip flopped on Byram at all. I still love him as a prospect and I've made it clear a number of times that I get that he's an 18 year old on a Defense filled with 19 year olds so he can get a bit of a pass right now.

I've watched every Team Canada game in this tournament from start to finish. Fact is I just haven't been overly impressed with him or any of Canada's defense, and of course very few people here on HFAvs are going to be critical of him.

 

[Balthazar]

Fair enough. I mean, I'm not going to let a down year on a team that is struggling to score goals cloud my opinion on Rakell either.

It's been 2 years now...they thought a new coach would help him and it didn't. If they decide to trade him he won't cost Byram that's for sure.

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

People are already dismissing Byram.... LMFAO. I look forward to Byram and Makar on the same team, that's just me though

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's been 2 years now...they thought a new coach would help him and it didn't. If they decide to trade him he won't cost Byram that's for sure.

Maybe not.... But, even as a ~25G, ~55 Point player he carries a tonne of value. A big part of the reason being that he makes less than 4M for this year, and the next two years beyond that.


His value has probably taken a bit of a hit since he put up his 70 point season. But make no mistake a 30+ goal 70 point Rickard Rakell would have absolutely taken a Byram level prospect to get. Those numbers are damn impressive and the fact he is making so little money, and the fact he brings some sandpaper to his style of play basically makes him a coaches wet dream.

He's 2nd in scoring for the Ducks and his PPG is right on par with first on that team(Silfverberg). The Ducks only average 2.50 goals per game, 30th in the league ahead of only the Wings(Who btw are having a worse season then the Avs in 16/17 at this point, they are so so bad).

The Avs as a team are average a full goal per game more. My point on all that being Rakell is on pace for about ~22 Goals and 57 points this year on a team that is struggling to score goals. I'd be pretty confident in saying if the Ducks had a little more talent in the Top 6 for Rakell to work with he definitely could still be hitting 30 Goals and 60 points, possibly even up in that 70 range.


If we got a package that included say both Rakell and Manson.... That would check a lot of boxes for the Avs needs going into the playoffs this year.

 

[Lemonlimey]

Bo is gonna be a beast

 

[henchman21]

People are already dismissing Byram.... LMFAO. I look forward to Byram and Makar on the same team, that's just me though

Nobody's dismissing Byram...