Bow down to Price

[sharks9]

To be fair, at this point it is just a matter of a small sample size and luck. Pacioretty's line concedes a lot of odd-men rushes against and spends quite a bit of time in their own end. Right now they are benefiting from a high on-ice SV%, but the chances against are still there. Last night's DD OT turnover was case in point.

They've been bailed out or have just been plain lucky which has masked a lot of the flaws of their usage and two-way play.

That's part of it, but another part of it is the fact that they haven't been nearly as bad defensively as they get criticized for on these boards. People just remember things like the odd-man rushes and ignore the good defensive plays they make.

They also easily spend the majority of their shifts in the other team's end. Part of that is zone starts, but part of it is that line (especially Pacioretty) is very good at driving possession and getting more chances than they give up.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

What is Max supposed to be doing?
He's clearly not burying his chances.
We understand odds are he will start to convert sooner or later.
In the meantime we just live with it?
Max will always please the instant gratification crowd.
They have an ability to shrug off the dead time in between.
There is a very strong group of veteran fans who aren't ready to bow down to Max.
If we compare what he brings day in and day out to a Damphousse for example...
Max needs to bear down more.

Bow down to Price

In essence... yes. . He still has 7 points in 10 games... +7, and not scoring at his regular rate and the team is winning. Like you said yourself... he will convert sooner or later. On top of that, he isn't getting credit for being responsible defensively. He's been great on the PK and has not been on the ice for many goals against ( yes in this small sample which you seem to be judging on).

No one is bowing down to patches. He isn't at his best right now. Neither is Subban. Hell even Chuckie has been mediocre in the last 3 games. Doesn't mean I'm going to say they are useless.

I love how you classify certain fans as "veteran" fans . What a ridiculous statement. If I play your game I'd actually say you're in the "rookie" fan base since you don't look at the big picture... but rather the results day to day. Imagine if the fans of the Great LA Kings did that last season during the regular season!

I bet you'd jump on Price after 5 bad games in a row. Not the kind of fan I'd want to be but by all means go ahead.

 

[Skip Bayless]

In essence... yes. . He still has 7 points in 10 games... +7, and not scoring at his regular rate and the team is winning. Like you said yourself... he will convert sooner or later. On top of that, he isn't getting credit for being responsible defensively. He's been great on the PK and has not been on the ice for many goals against ( yes in this small sample which you seem to be judging on).

No one is bowing down to patches. He isn't at his best right now. Neither is Subban. Hell even Chuckie has been mediocre in the last 3 games. Doesn't mean I'm going to say they are useless.

I love how you classify certain fans as "veteran" fans . What a ridiculous statement. If I play your game I'd actually say you're in the "rookie" fan base since you don't look at the big picture... but rather the results day to day. Imagine if the fans of the Great LA Kings did that last season during the regular season!

I bet you'd jump on Price after 5 bad games in a row. Not the kind of fan I'd want to be but by all means go ahead.

The big picture for you is 7 points in 10 games +7. It's you that actually sounds like the fé-fan.

 

[Rapala]

In essence... yes. . He still has 7 points in 10 games... +7, and not scoring at his regular rate and the team is winning. Like you said yourself... he will convert sooner or later. On top of that, he isn't getting credit for being responsible defensively. He's been great on the PK and has not been on the ice for many goals against ( yes in this small sample which you seem to be judging on).

No one is bowing down to patches. He isn't at his best right now. Neither is Subban. Hell even Chuckie has been mediocre in the last 3 games. Doesn't mean I'm going to say they are useless.

I love how you classify certain fans as "veteran" fans . What a ridiculous statement. If I play your game I'd actually say you're in the "rookie" fan base since you don't look at the big picture... but rather the results day to day. Imagine if the fans of the Great LA Kings did that last season during the regular season!

I bet you'd jump on Price after 5 bad games in a row. Not the kind of fan I'd want to be but by all means go ahead.

You are starting to lose it just as you did in the Pacioretty Thread.
The Big picture is exactly what I'm looking at and citing.
Max Pacioretty's game is NOT nearly good enough for the playoffs.
He needs to work on that.

You'd be wrong on the Price bet Too...
I posted he needs a new coach while everyone else was drumming him out of town.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

The big picture for you is 7 points in 10 games +7. It's you that actually sounds like the fé-fan.

No the big picture for me is how he will help the team this season. Patches is paramount to the habs success.

 

[Lemons]

Bow down to price. Also Im a DD fan, but its time to mabye give Pacioretty a new center to play with. he needs a change up. Bow down to price.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

You are starting to lose it just as you did in the Pacioretty Thread.
The Big picture is exactly what I'm looking at and citing.
Max Pacioretty's game is NOT nearly good enough for the playoffs.
He needs to work on that.

Patches needs to be better in the playoffs I agree. But he is elite in what we need the most right now... goal scoring. It may not show right now, but it will even out by seasons end. He's far from one dimensional, and not a floater a la Kovalev as some "veteran" fans may think

 

[ECWHSWI]

Patches needs to be better in the playoffs I agree. But he is elite in what we need the most right now... goal scoring. It may not show right now, but it will even out by seasons end. He's far from one dimensional, and not a floater a la Kovalev as some "veteran" fans may think

really ???

- doesnt hit much
- isnt a great passer
- doesnt play along the board much
- doesnt crash the net
- rarely block shots in def. zone

so really, outside his shot, wht other dimensions he has to his game ???

 

[Kachino]

In essence... yes. . He still has 7 points in 10 games... +7, and not scoring at his regular rate and the team is winning. Like you said yourself... he will convert sooner or later. On top of that, he isn't getting credit for being responsible defensively. He's been great on the PK and has not been on the ice for many goals against ( yes in this small sample which you seem to be judging on).No one is bowing down to patches. He isn't at his best right now. Neither is Subban. Hell even Chuckie has been mediocre in the last 3 games. Doesn't mean I'm going to say they are useless.

I love how you classify certain fans as "veteran" fans . What a ridiculous statement. If I play your game I'd actually say you're in the "rookie" fan base since you don't look at the big picture... but rather the results day to day. Imagine if the fans of the Great LA Kings did that last season during the regular season!

I bet you'd jump on Price after 5 bad games in a row. Not the kind of fan I'd want to be but by all means go ahead.

Can you really say a player is good defensively when you only use that factor? What if the player has a really bad giveaway/takeaway ratio? What if the player is getting bailed by his goalie after his line has been responsible for giving glorious scoring chances? What if his line can't get the puck out of the defensive zone especially after getting dominated on the boards and allowing the other team to play their cycle game? What if that player can't cover his guy and is waiting for the puck at the blue line all the time? What if that player is on the ice and his goalie lets in a soft goal?

Look I'm not saying that Paccioretty is guilty of all those suppositions. The only thing I'm saying is that we, as fans, should use more things in the game when we analyse players/team play especially when you analyse defensive play. I think looking at the +/- solely is just far from being enough.

Glad the team is winning despite getting big time outplayed on certain occasions. However, there will be games where the Habs are going to get robbed by a hot goalie.

 

[DAChampion]

really ???

- doesnt hit much
- isnt a great passer
- doesnt play along the board much
- doesnt crash the net
- rarely block shots in def. zone

so really, outside his shot, wht other dimensions he has to his game ???

He once had decent playmaking ability, he would again on a different line.

 

[Rapala]

Patches needs to be better in the playoffs I agree. But he is elite in what we need the most right now... goal scoring. It may not show right now, but it will even out by seasons end. He's far from one dimensional, and not a floater a la Kovalev as some "veteran" fans may think

The 8 goals in four game stuff is nice. I would much prefer 8 goals in 8 games.
That is the only thing holding Max back from Elite status...
Consistency.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

The 8 goals in four game stuff is nice. I would much prefer 8 goals in 8 games.
That is the only thing holding Max back from Elite status...
Consistency.

and again I counter with... most elite level goal scorers are inconsistent. If you're asking him to be a Stamkos, Ovechkin, Perry (who do go on droughts themselves), maybe you're asking too much?

 

[sharks9]

Can you really say a player is good defensively when you only use that factor? What if the player has a really bad giveaway/takeaway ratio? What if the player is getting bailed by his goalie after his line has been responsible for giving glorious scoring chances? What if his line can't get the puck out of the defensive zone especially after getting dominated on the boards and allowing the other team to play their cycle game? What if that player can't cover his guy and is waiting for the puck at the blue line all the time? What if that player is on the ice and his goalie lets in a soft goal?

He actually has the most takeaways on the team with 8 and only 2 giveaways.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

Can you really say a player is good defensively when you only use that factor? What if the player has a really bad giveaway/takeaway ratio? What if the player is getting bailed by his goalie after his line has been responsible for giving glorious scoring chances? What if his line can't get the puck out of the defensive zone especially after getting dominated on the boards and allowing the other team to play their cycle game? What if that player can't cover his guy and is waiting for the puck at the blue line all the time? What if that player is on the ice and his goalie lets in a soft goal?

Look I'm not saying that Paccioretty is guilty of all those suppositions. The only thing I'm saying is that we, as fans, should use more things in the game when we analyse players/team play especially when you analyse defensive play. I think looking at the +/- solely is just far from being enough.

Glad the team is winning despite getting big time outplayed on certain occasions. However, there will be games where the Habs are going to get robbed by a hot goalie.

I'm saying this based on his performance. I've been watching the games too. The only thing I really agree with you on is his lack of physicality around the net. I've seen some great back checks by him... and some great stick work. You think blocking shots is important for a defensive forward? How about pleks? He doesn't block very many.

His +7 is no fluke. He gets a lot of offensive zone starts (as he should), but he hasn't conceded a lot of goals while he's on the ice. Mix that in with his solid back checking in this small sample that all you guys are judging him on, and yes I'd say he's playing well defensively.

He's no Hossa... don't get me wrong. But he is no kovalev either.

 

[Kachino]

I'm saying this based on his performance. I've been watching the games too. The only thing I really agree with you on is his lack of physicality around the net. I've seen some great back checks by him... and some great stick work. You think blocking shots is important for a defensive forward? How about pleks? He doesn't block very many.

His +7 is no fluke. He gets a lot of offensive zone starts (as he should), but he hasn't conceded a lot of goals while he's on the ice. Mix that in with his solid back checking in this small sample that all you guys are judging him on, and yes I'd say he's playing well defensively.

He's no Hossa... don't get me wrong. But he is no kovalev either.

See, by writing what he does in terms of defensive play makes your argument way better than just to write that +/-. You're going beyond numbers!

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

See, by writing what he does in terms of defensive play makes your argument way better than just to write that +/-. You're going beyond numbers!

I'll make sure to run my posts by you before i start posting them.

 

[Rapala]

and again I counter with... most elite level goal scorers are inconsistent. If you're asking him to be a Stamkos, Ovechkin, Perry (who do go on droughts themselves), maybe you're asking too much?

But Why is it asking too much.
Do you know why Stamkos scores so much?
Determination...
He scores every type of goal known to man.

 

[That Habs Fan]

Martin St. Louis (and now Drouin), Nicklas Backstrom, Ryan Getzlaf

vs.

David Desharnais

 

[Habs_Apostle]

People who understand the game eh? Well then... I can't imagine anyone would want Pacioretty on their team because if he's not scoring, or killing penalties, he's useless. You know what? When Malhotra isn't winning faceoffs or taking defensive responsibilities away from pleks... he's useless. When Subban isn't scoring points, he's giving away the puck and is useless... You see where I'm going with this?

There is always one thing pacioretty is always doing when he's on the ice... and that's taking on the best defensemen on each team every night.

I think I understand the game just fine, and do love having patches on this team.



Optional practices aren't really optional... they are there for the players that need to learn something before the next game and the spares. If you didn't realize, this team just played 3 games in 5 days on top of traveling across the country... I'd say it's quite normal for the team to have a rest

Honestly, I know everyone is going off on this player and that one, but I think (and maybe just hope) this is the most important factor for how they played yesterday. It would certainly account for the many careless penalties; you get sloppy and make silly mistakes when you're mentally tired. Really, this trip has always been a bit of ***** for this team. So not worrying too much right now.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

But Why is it asking too much.
Do you know why Stamkos scores so much?
Determination...
He scores every type of goal known to man.

Yah, I guess you're right... Patches isn't Stamkos, screw him

 

[Kimota]

Patrick Lalime said the players were tired. I won't discount this cause he's a former player and he said playing at a place like Calgary cause of the elevation and change of time zone, the guys sleep a lot less and they are all mixed up physically. It's as good an explanation as any for why the Habs looked like Pee-Wees in Calgary. I mean I've never seen a team where everybody sucked. Everybody. Excepted the goalie.

 

[Compile]

You are starting to lose it just as you did in the Pacioretty Thread.
The Big picture is exactly what I'm looking at and citing.
Max Pacioretty's game is NOT nearly good enough for the playoffs.
He needs to work on that.

You'd be wrong on the Price bet Too...
I posted he needs a new coach while everyone else was drumming him out of town.

There a bunch of us that said Melanson completely changed the way Price actually played, and getting a new coach that would refine his style would be a big benefit.


Funny how a goalie goes from "gtfo" to top 5, with a coach change. Wonder if it would work for the rest of the team...