Bourque had his dream, Lundqvist didn't

Chimpradamus

Registered User
Feb 16, 2006
16,634
5,249
Northern Sweden
Bourque had it all set. He played out his career and dominated the game in Boston and eventually got his Cup in Colorado before retiring. I think if Lundqvist's heart wouldn't have given up on him, the Caps would've had a real shot. Their goalie situation was a real mess and Lundqvist would've taken care of that just fine. Because if a team had structure, he could still dominate. He finished his final years in NYR as his first third, a total circus show. Always relied on to always be the nail that covers all the holes.

Ovie continues to have another gear in him just to break more records. Lundqvist still had the drive in him to just win a goddamn cup. Mentally, both are comparable. They impress their enviroment by their commitment combined with their talent. That's why it was so sad for us as hockey fans to never witness that moment in a season and a playoff. Ovechkin and Lundqvist trying to win a cup. Bäckström was a huge fan of that idea btw. So were all the other Caps. They were hyped. They liked the idea to have that old monster in their own net. Then the news of our mortality.

Alot of people mocked Lundqvist his final years playing behind league leading backdoor goals against super coach Alain Vigneault, who exactly doesn't know how opposing teams will beat his teams and never adjusts, since his ego is bigger than the Grand Canyon. It was a travesty to watch the team implode and have NO structure in the defensive zone. No wonder any goalie struggles, neverthless Luongo, Lundqvist, Hart, hrrm. Vigneault is like a natural force destroying HHOF goalies. Any flaws in your strategy, you old chewing gum mutt? "Naw. It's the goalies who aren't good enough."

Let's just say I don't find it strange at all that the Flyers are struggling with that idiot behind the bench. Hire Vigneault for one season if you want a quick offensive boost. A maximum of two seasons. Then you fire him, no questions asked. He's that flawed. Then you hire a sensible coach to tell the players Vigneault's ideas of defending were moronic, but his idea of a counterattack was smart in SOME situations, not always. But Vigneault never evolved his hockey.

As a Lundqvist fan, I condemned him for staying loyal to New York, but apparently his love for the city is bigger than any Cup. He had an open clause to be traded in the rebuild. He knew his chances winning a Cup in New York were bad. So when they kicked him out he tried to finally win a Cup for himself. And then he received the health issues.

I mean, if anybody doubts what he could do in his old age, a big majority of his most spectacular saves from the NHL were all from his final years in this highlight video. Like 70% of them. And then he has his younger cat like saves for hours from his earlier seasons. When he realized his reflexes weren't good enough, he just started playing like Hasek. Like he felt like. That he played such unorthodox goaltending in this modern era was so funny to watch. If only he had a real team in front of him, like Washington.


I'm just a mourning fan, ok? It's fine, I just think he deserved better. His own loyalty feeling like a New Yorker betrayed him ahead of business, I think that deserves something at least. And when NYR finally forced him to try his best his heart gave out. Kind of fitting, still sad.

Question: 1) Is he a #1 ballot for the HHOF or will it take time?
2) Where is he ranked all time?
3) Other of your own thinking.
4) Is Vigneault one of the most overrated coaches of all time?
 
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SnowblindNYR

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Nov 16, 2011
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LOL at Sam during that highlight video I counted at least 4 time where he said "off the post" or "wide" when Lundqvist made the save.
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
14,982
5,310
By the time the rangers were no longer competing Lundqvist was no longer in his prime. He has a massive contract, that would have been very difficult for a contender to fit under the cap.

The rangers had a few deep playoff runs with Lundqvist, which is more than many star players get. Look at Shane Doan. Lundqvist was also in the Crosby era, where only a few different teams were winning cups. Unless he's getting traded to Chicago or Pittsburgh, he likely isn't winning a cup anyways.
 

Legionnaire

Help On The Way
Jul 10, 2002
44,253
3,964
LA-LA Land
Winning the Stanley Cup and Henrik Lundqvist will always be synonymous for this Kings fan.

1. Probably
2. Who cares? He was 1st or 2nd of his era.
3. See above
4. I never thought he was good to begin with
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,829
16,564
Bourque had it all set. He played out his career and dominated the game in Boston and eventually got his Cup in Colorado before retiring. I think if Lundqvist's heart wouldn't have given up on him, the Caps would've had a real shot. Their goalie situation was a real mess and Lundqvist would've taken care of that just fine. Because if a team had structure, he could still dominate. He finished his final years in NYR as his first third, a total circus show. Always relied on to always be the nail that covers all the holes.

Ovie continues to have another gear in him just to break more records. Lundqvist still had the drive in him to just win a goddamn cup. Mentally, both are comparable. They impress their enviroment by their commitment combined with their talent. That's why it was so sad for us as hockey fans to never witness that moment in a season and a playoff. Ovechkin and Lundqvist trying to win a cup. Bäckström was a huge fan of that idea btw. So were all the other Caps. They were hyped. They liked the idea to have that old monster in their own net. Then the news of our mortality.

Alot of people mocked Lundqvist his final years playing behind league leading backdoor goals against super coach Alain Vigneault, who exactly doesn't know how opposing teams will beat his teams and never adjusts, since his ego is bigger than the Grand Canyon. It was a travesty to watch the team implode and have NO structure in the defensive zone. No wonder any goalie struggles, neverthless Luongo, Lundqvist, Hart, hrrm. Vigneault is like a natural force destroying HHOF goalies. Any flaws in your strategy, you old chewing gum mutt? "Naw. It's the goalies who aren't good enough."

Let's just say I don't find it strange at all that the Flyers are struggling with that idiot behind the bench. Hire Vigneault for one season if you want a quick offensive boost. A maximum of two seasons. Then you fire him, no questions asked. He's that flawed. Then you hire a sensible coach to tell the players Vigneault's ideas of defending were moronic, but his idea of a counterattack was smart in SOME situations, not always. But Vigneault never evolved his hockey.

As a Lundqvist fan, I condemned him for staying loyal to New York, but apparently his love for the city is bigger than any Cup. He had an open clause to be traded in the rebuild. He knew his chances winning a Cup in New York were bad. So when they kicked him out he tried to finally win a Cup for himself. And then he received the health issues.

I mean, if anybody doubts what he could do in his old age, a big majority of his most spectacular saves from the NHL were all from his final years in this highlight video. Like 70% of them. And then he has his younger cat like saves for hours from his earlier seasons. When he realized his reflexes weren't good enough, he just started playing like Hasek. Like he felt like. That he played such unorthodox goaltending in this modern era was so funny to watch. If only he had a real team in front of him, like Washington.


I'm just a mourning fan, ok? It's fine, I just think he deserved better. His own loyalty feeling like a New Yorker betrayed him ahead of business, I think that deserves something at least. And when NYR finally forced him to try his best his heart gave out. Kind of fitting, still sad.

Question: 1) Is he a #1 ballot for the HHOF or will it take time?
2) Where is he ranked all time?
3) Other of your own thinking.
4) Is Vigneault one of the most overrated coaches of all time?


1) Whether he's a #1 ballot depends mostly on two things : who became eligible at the same time he did, and who was left off the previous ballots. On top of my head, the best players that will become eligible at the same time as Lundqvist are Mike Green, Corey Crawford, Jay Bouwmeester and Justin Williams (I'm certainly forgetting a few players). He's, very safely, the best of that group. No debate whatsoever. As far as I'm concerned, Lundqvist would be a first-year inductee nearly every year, unless something stupid crazy happens like (fictionnal scenario) Crosby, Malkin, Ovie and ... maybe Chara? retiring all on the same year. And in that case, I'd probably make Chara wait.

2) Amongst goalies? Between 10th and 15th as far as I'm concerned, and probably closer to 15th than to 10th (hard to give a very specific number), but I do have him very close to Ed Belfour (and... probably just ahead).

3) Not much to add. He wasn't Roy or Hasek; he wasn't even Brodeur. But, for most of the NHL's history, there wasn't a Roy, Hasek or Brodeur-level active netminder either.

4) Alain Vigneault was a pretty good, above-average coach with a somewhat decent shelf life too. But there isn't much of a difference between the best coach and the worst coach at this point. It seems the Rangers' biggest issue during Lundqvist career was that their #1 guy at F AND at D should've been featured as a #2 instead. (except for the short stint where Jagr was there).
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,829
16,564
By the time the rangers were no longer competing Lundqvist was no longer in his prime. He has a massive contract, that would have been very difficult for a contender to fit under the cap.

The rangers had a few deep playoff runs with Lundqvist, which is more than many star players get. Look at Shane Doan. Lundqvist was also in the Crosby era, where only a few different teams were winning cups. Unless he's getting traded to Chicago or Pittsburgh, he likely isn't winning a cup anyways.

There is a world of difference between Henrik Lundqvist and Shane Doan...
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,829
16,564
What is the point of this thread? Not every great player ends up winning

Well... we're talking about a possible candidate for "Best Player Without a Cup" moniker. He has a very, very legit case. And he seems to be clearly the best NHL Netminder without a Stanley Cup.
 
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Chaels Arms

Formerly Lias Andersson
Aug 26, 2010
7,303
6,888
New York City
He should have requested a trade as soon as Rangers management released the letter saying they were going to sell pieces and start a rebuild. As a Rangers fan I would have loved a couple of seasons of watching him chase a cup on a good team.
 

Alwalys

Phu m.
May 19, 2010
25,894
6,140
Two words: Salary Cap

The era of Bourque stories died when the cap was implemented
 
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TheDawnOfANewTage

Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
Dec 17, 2018
12,337
18,055
I think one big difference is that Borque played defense whereas Lundqvist played goalie, I think, and those are different positions. Just my two cents.
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
18,149
12,833
1. I'd guess that he'll get in the first chance, though the HHOF holds goaltenders to a higher position than it does other players. He should get in the first time assuming any reasonable competition.

2. 20 to 15 or so. It's really difficult to compare.

3. Weird thread.

4. No, seems that people rip Vigneault all the time. I think he's fine.
 
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KovalchukFistPump

Too lazy to change username
Dec 24, 2008
2,616
1,847
California
I mean he could've asked for a trade during the 2017-18 sell-off. Yes, the Rangers would've had to retain and I don't know how much. But the word that came out that time is that he wanted to stay in New York partially due to loyalty, but also partially for his other business ventures.
 

GrkFlyersFan

Registered User
Jul 30, 2011
1,513
540
South Jersey
Bourque had it all set. He played out his career and dominated the game in Boston and eventually got his Cup in Colorado before retiring. I think if Lundqvist's heart wouldn't have given up on him, the Caps would've had a real shot. Their goalie situation was a real mess and Lundqvist would've taken care of that just fine. Because if a team had structure, he could still dominate. He finished his final years in NYR as his first third, a total circus show. Always relied on to always be the nail that covers all the holes.

Ovie continues to have another gear in him just to break more records. Lundqvist still had the drive in him to just win a goddamn cup. Mentally, both are comparable. They impress their enviroment by their commitment combined with their talent. That's why it was so sad for us as hockey fans to never witness that moment in a season and a playoff. Ovechkin and Lundqvist trying to win a cup. Bäckström was a huge fan of that idea btw. So were all the other Caps. They were hyped. They liked the idea to have that old monster in their own net. Then the news of our mortality.

Alot of people mocked Lundqvist his final years playing behind league leading backdoor goals against super coach Alain Vigneault, who exactly doesn't know how opposing teams will beat his teams and never adjusts, since his ego is bigger than the Grand Canyon. It was a travesty to watch the team implode and have NO structure in the defensive zone. No wonder any goalie struggles, neverthless Luongo, Lundqvist, Hart, hrrm. Vigneault is like a natural force destroying HHOF goalies. Any flaws in your strategy, you old chewing gum mutt? "Naw. It's the goalies who aren't good enough."

Let's just say I don't find it strange at all that the Flyers are struggling with that idiot behind the bench. Hire Vigneault for one season if you want a quick offensive boost. A maximum of two seasons. Then you fire him, no questions asked. He's that flawed. Then you hire a sensible coach to tell the players Vigneault's ideas of defending were moronic, but his idea of a counterattack was smart in SOME situations, not always. But Vigneault never evolved his hockey.

As a Lundqvist fan, I condemned him for staying loyal to New York, but apparently his love for the city is bigger than any Cup. He had an open clause to be traded in the rebuild. He knew his chances winning a Cup in New York were bad. So when they kicked him out he tried to finally win a Cup for himself. And then he received the health issues.

I mean, if anybody doubts what he could do in his old age, a big majority of his most spectacular saves from the NHL were all from his final years in this highlight video. Like 70% of them. And then he has his younger cat like saves for hours from his earlier seasons. When he realized his reflexes weren't good enough, he just started playing like Hasek. Like he felt like. That he played such unorthodox goaltending in this modern era was so funny to watch. If only he had a real team in front of him, like Washington.


I'm just a mourning fan, ok? It's fine, I just think he deserved better. His own loyalty feeling like a New Yorker betrayed him ahead of business, I think that deserves something at least. And when NYR finally forced him to try his best his heart gave out. Kind of fitting, still sad.

Question: 1) Is he a #1 ballot for the HHOF or will it take time?
2) Where is he ranked all time?
3) Other of your own thinking.
4) Is Vigneault one of the most overrated coaches of all time?

1. He shouldn't be, and with the impossible standards for goalies, if he did get in at all, they would have to let more in that have been retired much longer.
2. Definitely not top 10 or even 20 probably. 15 goalies made the NHL100, and he's not better than any of those.
3. Huh?
4. Well, I'm living with AV now as a Flyers fan. He's a good coach, but sometimes he does things you don't understand the logic on.
 
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Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,187
54,434
Henrik Lundqvist will go down as a first ballot Hall of Famer for sure. He shot his shot at a championship title in 2014 when the Rangers lost to the Kings, but unfortunately you don't always get the storybook ending and the Rangers quickly ran out of road in the following years. Sometimes it just happens that way.

It is kind of interesting to me though that a lot of the best Swedish franchise players seem to miss the boat on winning with their primary team and then go mercenary a little bit too late. Sundin, Naslund and Alfredsson were like that with their last dance scenarios once they left their teams. The Sedin twins had their finals shot as well and came up empty. Erik Karlsson probably won't get back to a cup championship scenario due to his contractual status. Salming never got close in Toronto or Detroit. etc.
 
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