Post-Game Talk: Bouchard furthering the cause

[bone]

A wise gent here two decades ago that was a longtime hockey coach once said that Chris Pronger was the best "snowball catcher" he ever saw. he explained later what he want but basically around his ability to read and stop so many opponent forays it was silly. Chris would end up with the puck. Like a DB that a QB never throws to, and is scared to throw towards.

I watched Nurse play 62mins in a playoff game in what was a legendary performance. I've seen all the Oilers greats, all time. That was a spectacular performance. for 6 periods Darnell was making flawless reads and playing flawless hockey. I've been a Nurse fan for several years. he's an absolute gamer. Would run through walls for a club.

If you saw Darnell with a regular apt partner, you would spot a difference. But we're growing D here, Darnell is being a huge part of that, and he's having to play too many roles concurrently. Darnell Nurse is quite a D and 30 teams would have him. He's indispensable to this lineup. you comparing him to Hyman or Nuge is ridiculous.

"mediocre" jesus christ

The issue with Nurse always seems to get tied to his salary as he gets big contracts a bit earlier than he might deserve, but then eventually he catches up. He got a bit too much on his second contract, so people were annoyed with him, but by the time it expired it was fine. The third contract was similar (less so) when he signed it early and it looked too steep. But by the end of last year, it looked pretty. Now he has a new big contract and people are evaluating him on that value, which he isn't delivering at this year.

I'm choosing to believe that he's caught up to every contract he signed within a year or so this should be no different. I don't think he's a 9.5M dman this year, but good thing is that he's only being paid $5.6. I am pretty confident that the $9.5M won't seem crazy by Year 2 of his new contract thought (not saying he'll be a bargain, but will at least be worth similar value).

 

[Soundwave]

I didn't make the comparison. I used an example. Larsson had one good season here. he was flat out lousy in two, and had a medium season another year. Darnell is being a stud here every season. Indispensable.

He's honestly not that great this year. Indispensable sure because the rest of the d corps sucks but that doesn't mean Darnell is having a good year. I laughed when he said he would go play at the Olympics no matter what, dude you wouldn't have gotten selected to Team Canada based on your play this year.

You'd be sitting your ass at home watching on TV if the Olympics had happened.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The issue with Nurse always seems to get tied to his salary as he gets big contracts a bit earlier than he might deserve, but then eventually he catches up. He got a bit too much on his second contract, so people were annoyed with him, but by the time it expired it was fine. The third contract was similar (less so) when he signed it early and it looked too steep. But by the end of last year, it looked pretty. Now he has a new big contract and people are evaluating him on that value, which he isn't delivering at this year.

I'm choosing to believe that he's caught up to every contract he signed within a year or so this should be no different. I don't think he's a 9.5M dman this year, but good thing is that he's only being paid $5.6. I am pretty confident that the $9.5M won't seem crazy by Year 2 of his new contract thought (not saying he'll be a bargain, but will at least be worth similar value).

For Nurse to live up to his new contract he needs to be a Norris calibre top 5 defender in the league. There is zero chance he becomes that.

 

[Soundwave]

For Nurse to live up to his new contract he needs to be a Norris calibre top 5 defender in the league. There is zero chance he becomes that.

He needs to play more like last year. He's not going to be a Norris candidate in anything but an outlier year.

 

[CycloneSweep]

He needs to play more like last year. He's not going to be a Norris candidate in anything but an outlier year.

He had an impossible shooting percentage last year. That ain’t happening again.

 

[Soundwave]

He had an impossible shooting percentage last year. That ain’t happening again.

He doesn't need to score that many goals but Darnell is up and down with the goals. Seems like he scores lots in one year and then is down the next year.

 

[KlefDown]

Time to give Paul Maurice a call tbh

 

[bone]

For Nurse to live up to his new contract he needs to be a Norris calibre top 5 defender in the league. There is zero chance he becomes that.

Was he not close to that last year (7th in Norris voting). Considering he's progressed almost every year in his career except this one (and this year isn't done yet), can we say for certain his best career season would have been his 25 year old season? That would be surprising as high level dmen don't peak at 25 and suddenly drop off.

For reference sakes, last year after 27 games he was 6-11-17 and +11. This year's 2-12-14 and +1 isn't too far off when considering the drop in goaltending we've seen this year vs. last.

 

[3IR]

That is the life of any fan. Fan is short for Fanatic. We are all emotional basket cases living vicariously through our team who must win to validate our very existence.

We take losses hard. A lost season harder. 15 years of losing even harder. 7 years of losing with the best 2 players in the world is suicidal.

Absolutely, but how many people would still be "fans" after what the oilers have been okay with icing as a product for the last 15+ years?

The players, managers, coaches, etc all get to move on. None of them have to experience the same frustration we do as fans. Looking at it from Hollands perspective, he's only been here a couple years and they were covid years. Same with Tippett. In that time, they've been relatively successful compared to what the team was before, and given the pandemic situation, but because they never experienced what we have the 15 years prior, it's much easier for the organization and for themselves to cut them some slack.

Ultimately the fans are the ones who've had to put up with the most garbage as we learned from how profitable this organization is. It would just be so nice to be able to flip a switch and cheer for a team that hasn't sucked since the day I started watching lol.

 

[frag2]

Yes but our bottom six, namely Benson and Mcleod Foegele, do create chances. Look at who got the game winner for the Laffs last night... Ilya freaking Mikhayev. A bottom six winger with skill. Why can't we give players like McLeod and Benson over 10 minutes of ice time?

First problem - Tippett. He aint going to give any forward not named or lined with McDrai minutes.
Second - I think our bottom 6, skilled or grinder, over thinks shit. Hell, I think even our top 6, McDrai included, over thinks shit. Maybe just start it simple and get shots at the net and then create a ruckus in from of the goalie? There shouldn't be a need to overthink open net situations. That old saying about 'gripping sticks too tightly'...

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You make some great points. I appreciate your ability to see both sides of the coin. I had hoped that Draisaitl might rise to the challenge last night on an undermanned squad against "Canada's team." But alas, he's still plagued by the same issues that hindered him all of last month. The three-headed monster of blind pass giveaways, nonexistent defence, and blundered offensive opportunities. I don't know if it's a seasonal issue or disengagement. Part of this is on him to snap out of his own issues and help the team out of its slump. Giving up is tempting but not the right approach.

It's impossible to get to the elite of the elite without self-confidence and belief. Unfortunately I think that does short circuit at times for Draisaitl and McDavid when the extra push or risk taking breaks down into bad decisions. You're bang on with gaps we see with Draisaitl, though the one I'd quibble most about is some of the own zone play at times, where maybe we don't always see the consistent urgency in the own zone.

I'd actually like to see this team reduce McDavid and Draisaitl's ice-time a bit, move Nugent Hopkins into the 3C spot, and try to move this team forward with a more balanced forward group. At least in the short-term to break this funk. Set priority on goal suppression and defensive structure with a much more simplified game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

For Nurse to live up to his new contract he needs to be a Norris calibre top 5 defender in the league. There is zero chance he becomes that.

Zero chance hey? Nurse is a thoroughbred. Physically his ability to eat minutes with pace is rarely seen in hockey. This is a player that can play a long shift, sit on the bench for 30 secs and go again. His recovery rate is freakish. Better than a Mark Messier.

Darnell Nurse is a physical stud. He's also capable of anything, of hitting, fighting, and intangible you went to mention. Darnell Nurse thinks the game fine and with his elite speed any play he's off on he has Paul Coffey type gear to get back on.

Its absolutely amazing the shade that gets thrown on our top players. McDrai would be the first to tell you that Darnell Nurse is in their conversation. Neither would be surprised at the money he got or where the org is in consideration of Darnell Nurse.

Pay him this much? Its less of a problem as he carries the minutes, always, of 1.5 top pairing D. In some games he's 2 D in terms of minutes, and playing them well.

 

[frag2]

He had an impossible shooting percentage last year. That ain’t happening again.

This. Having a shooting percentage that's 3-5x his norm...unless he hires some miracle shooting tutor, he aint replicating it

 

[K1984]

In my opinion, Hollands biggest mistake was giving Kassian a new contract. Everyone craps on Keith’s contract but he serves a purpose til the Bakersfield trio are ready. Sceviour is eating his lunch. Kass’s 3.2M should be in Puljujarvi’s pocket and no hit Kassian should be down the road.

Problem with the Kassian deal is it was likely conceived when there was talk of the cap bouncing exponentially the next season, as much as $7 or 8M I think before COVID ruined it.

Had COVID not happened that cap hit wouldn't be much of a problem today, even with the overall poor performance from him. Except COVID did happen so it's a problem.

I'll roast Holland for other things, but he gets a slight pass from me on this one.

 

[Oilhawks]

Time to give Paul Maurice a call tbh

Time to aim higher than that, no?

 

[3IR]

Zero chance hey? Nurse is a thoroughbred. Physically his ability to eat minutes with pace is rarely seen in hockey. This is a player that can play a long shift, sit on the bench for 30 secs and go again. His recovery rate is freakish. Better than a Mark Messier.

Darnell Nurse is a physical stud. He's also capable of anything, of hitting, fighting, and intangible you went to mention. Darnell Nurse thinks the game fine and with his elite speed any play he's off on he has Paul Coffey type gear to get back on.

Its absolutely amazing the shade that gets thrown on our top players. McDrai would be the first to tell you that Darnell Nurse is in their conversation. Neither would be surprised at the money he got or where the org is in consideration of Darnell Nurse.

Pay him this much? Its less of a problem as he carries the minutes, always, of 1.5 top pairing D. In some games he's 2 D in terms of minutes, and playing them well.

Nurse is one of the few players I'm not concerned about honestly. He's been improving every single year, but this year he's been tasked with carrying the entire Dcore, with historically bad forward support, and goalies who can't save a beachball.

I'm certain Nurse is going to live up to his contract, we just need to stop surrounding him with guys who wouldn't be top 4, or even top 6 defenders on any other team. His most common Dpartner this year is Bouchard. A rookie Dman who's calling card is offence with big defensive warts. Next is Barrie, who is an older version of the same thing. Meanwhile when he's not on the ice, it's up to aging keith, a (pleasantly surprising) Ceci, and two replacement level players to hold the wall between the other team and our wide open net.

He's being played way too much with players who can't carry his jockstrap. Almost exactly like Drai and Mcdavid.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Was he not close to that last year (7th in Norris voting). Considering he's progressed almost every year in his career except this one (and this year isn't done yet), can we say for certain his best career season would have been his 25 year old season? That would be surprising as high level dmen don't peak at 25 and suddenly drop off.

View attachment 496096

It was a weird situation in a weak division.

His underlying defensive numbers aren’t good, and really never have been. He bleeds high danger chances and has the tendency to have some brain dead reads which lead to goals against. Sure, maybe he could pull a miracle and be a top 5 defender in the league but he simply isn’t close to that. Sure he might have the odd season where he gets maybe close but overall, not a chance.

 

[Oilhawks]

Problem with the Kassian deal is it was likely conceived when there was talk of the cap bouncing exponentially the next season, as much as $7 or 8M I think before COVID ruined it.

Had COVID not happened that cap hit wouldn't be much of a problem today, even with the overall poor performance from him. Except COVID did happen so it's a problem.

I'll roast Holland for other things, but he gets a slight pass from me on this one.

That and the AA deal. They’d both be playing on the third line right now, maybe even with a 3C.

However, time to pay to get an established 3C and have McLeod on the wing for now (he’ll be a good 3C as early as next season IMO)

 

[CycloneSweep]

Zero chance hey? Nurse is a thoroughbred. Physically his ability to eat minutes with pace is rarely seen in hockey. This is a player that can play a long shift, sit on the bench for 30 secs and go again. His recovery rate is freakish. Better than a Mark Messier.

Darnell Nurse is a physical stud. He's also capable of anything, of hitting, fighting, and intangible you went to mention. Darnell Nurse thinks the game fine and with his elite speed any play he's off on he has Paul Coffey type gear to get back on.

Its absolutely amazing the shade that gets thrown on our top players. McDrai would be the first to tell you that Darnell Nurse is in their conversation. Neither would be surprised at the money he got or where the org is in consideration of Darnell Nurse.

Pay him this much? Its less of a problem as he carries the minutes, always, of 1.5 top pairing D. In some games he's 2 D in terms of minutes, and playing them well.

McDrai also went to bat and begged Holland to bring in Barrie cause they thought he was great so maybe their “opinion” in their best friends play ain’t the most accurate. He isn’t playing then well this year, not at all.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Absolutely, but how many people would still be "fans" after what the oilers have been okay with icing as a product for the last 15+ years?

The players, managers, coaches, etc all get to move on. None of them have to experience the same frustration we do as fans. Looking at it from Hollands perspective, he's only been here a couple years and they were covid years. Same with Tippett. In that time, they've been relatively successful compared to what the team was before, and given the pandemic situation, but because they never experienced what we have the 15 years prior, it's much easier for the organization and for themselves to cut them some slack.

Ultimately the fans are the ones who've had to put up with the most garbage as we learned from how profitable this organization is. It would just be so nice to be able to flip a switch and cheer for a team that hasn't sucked since the day I started watching lol.

Totally. At least I got to enjoy 5 cups and 12 years of the best hockey one could imagine. Since then other than a fluke run to the Cup Final in 06 it’s been pretty much a shit sandwich for fans here and I include the try hard but have no money Smyth, Weight, Cujo, Hemsky years in that.

Fans are gluttons for punishment. Hockey is a religion here. Not many people abandon their religion and in fact are quite passionate about it - as one can tell reading Oiler Twitter and this forum.

We are all sick of mismanagement and losing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think a ton. You need to not treat the stars like they are the only answer and solution. When you treat them differently it breaks a team game. That’s on the coach.

Actually it's on the org, but the coach definitely plays his part.

 

[bone]

This. Having a shooting percentage that's 3-5x his norm...unless he hires some miracle shooting tutor, he aint replicating it

Career shooting percentage 4.6%. Last year 10.4%. So granted he was shooting the light out a bit last year, but 3-5x his norm is misleading at best if not outright lying.

 

[CycloneSweep]

That and the AA deal. They’d both be playing on the third line right now, maybe even with a 3C.

However, time to pay to get an established 3C and have McLeod on the wing for now (he’ll be a good 3C as early as next season IMO)

There is zero point spending asssets on a stop gap 3 c this year without a goalie. No goalie? Then every trade you make is a waste of assets. If Holland isn’t planning on getting a #1 goalie he should maybe look to sell at the deadline….although we have nothing to sell cause he loves his long term deals.

 

[K1984]

There is zero point spending asssets on a stop gap 3 c this year without a goalie. No goalie? Then every trade you make is a waste of assets. If Holland isn’t planning on getting a #1 goalie he should maybe look to sell at the deadline….although we have nothing to sell cause he loves his long term deals.

Agree, its apparent that barring a miracle this team isn't winning anything this year anyways.

It would be very Oiler-esque for them to deal a bunch of assets for a vet 3C with some years under his belt and a decent cap hit, only for McLeod to emerge in the back half of the season and fill the role on the cheap anyways.

 

[ManofSteel55]

For Nurse to live up to his new contract he needs to be a Norris calibre top 5 defender in the league. There is zero chance he becomes that.

I don't think he does. He needs to be a #1. We're going to see a lot more #1's sign in the Nurse/Jones range as years go by.