Post-Game Talk: Bouchard furthering the cause

[Drivesaitl]

Back to the new coach thing. people saying that realize that all of Barrie, Nuge, Kass, Pulju, Hyman, Yama have never been consistent players with any coach they have had, ever. Its in these players DNA to be less than they can be. Of the lot the only hope I have for one of these pulling out of their own self limitation is Pulju. The others just don't seek being better. With apology to Yama who has size limitation as well which makes it difficult for him to do everything he needs to do at this level.

Not even generational superstars of the best form you could find anywhere on the planet have pulled the underlings out of their innate inconsistency.

Conversely the 1990 Oilers were going nowhere, and would have lost in the first round had they not had inspiration from the Kid line playing great, and Bill Ranford. The Oilers still had almost all of a Stanley Cup core remaining. Even that team needed help.

How much help are McDrai and Nurse really getting here. What other player is even remotely consistent? This season that is Ceci and Sceviour and McLeod. Those are the shortlist bringing their all, and playing at their best. The others have no excuse.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Back to the new coach thing. people saying that realize that all of Barrie, Nuge, Kass, Pulju, Hyman, Yama have ever been consistent players with any coach they have had, ever. Its in these players DNA to be less than they can be. Of the lot the only hope I have for one of these pulling out of their own self limitation is Pulju. The others just don't seek being better. With apology to Yama who has size limitation as well which makes it difficult for him to do everything he needs to do at this level.

Not even generational superstars of the best form you could find anywhere on the planet have pulled the underlings out of their innate inconsistency.

Conversely the 1990 Oilers were going nowhere, and would have lost in the first round had they not had inspiration from the Kid line playing great, and Bill Ranford. The Oilers still had almost all of a Stanley Cup core remaining. Even that team needed help.

How much help are McDrai and Nurse really getting here. What other player is even remotely consistent? This season that is Ceci and Sceviour and McLeod. Those are the shortlist bringing their all, and playing at their best. The others have no excuse.

Dave Tippett put Kassian as the extra forward yesterday.

 

[Chayos]

Oh sure, just one more!

Sounds like me and Beer.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Dave Tippett put Kassian as the extra forward yesterday.

He has to pick somebody and Kassian was having one of his activated, involved games yesterday. Kass should be on a line with Drai right now. people underestimate Kass talent level. he can play with the best, but he requires the motivation once in awhile of playing with the best. Foegele is supposed to be like that as well but...

Kass has brought his skates this year. 4G 12pts playing almost exclusive bottomsix on a club with a poor bottomsix. Kass has more EV pts than half of our topsix. Plus he is on pk, and rarely on PP.

This has been a good Kass season, considering his usage. I would be giving him minutes as well. The one aspect of Kass is he can be a gamer in big moments.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He has to pick somebody and Kassian was having one of his activated, involved games yesterday. Kass should be on a line with Drai right now. people underestimate Kass talent level. he can play with the best, but he requires the motivation once in awhile of playing with the best. Foegele is supposed to be like that as well but...

Kass has brought his skates this year. 4G 12pts playing almost exclusive bottomsix on a club with a poor bottomsix. Kass has more EV pts than half of our topsix. Plus he is on pk, and rarely on PP.

This has been a good Kass season, considering his usage. I would be giving him minutes as well. The one aspect of Kass is he can be a gamer in big moments.

Kassian was? I didn't even realize he was in the game until that moment. You never notice this player until he takes a dumb penalty. Complete waste of money and a roster spot.

 

[KlefDown]

This team lives rent free in my head

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

We all talk about and dread that one day, McDavid will ask for a trade. If anyone should ask for a trade, it's Draisaitl.

Like McDavid, stuck on a mediocre-to-bad team that two stone-age GMs have continually sabotaged through poor asset management. A rotation of coaches still living in the 80s and with the mental flexibility of a rock. A collection of roster players less useful than a turd.

Continues to do his best, even through periods of struggles and apparent apathy, playing 25 minutes a game. Speaks honestly and candidly, defending coaches and teammates. Rather than throwing teammates and coaches under the bus, like others are apt to do.

One of the two bright spots on the roster in the last 15+ years, putting up insane numbers. Largely overlooked in favor of McDavid, until the team struggles.

And, when he isn't perfect or the team is mired in the middle of a losing slump, repeatedly shat on and called names by not only other fan bases but also his OWN fanbase.

Are there things he can do better? Absolutely! Does he frustrate the hell out of me (and others) at times? Absolutely. If he were to ask for a trade today, I wouldn't blame him one iota.

It's an interesting quandary. Certainly one opposing fanbases like to poke at. Personally, I don't view a quitter mentality in either player whose going to take adversity and roll up into a self pity, self first mindset to abandon this team for hopeful personal success elsewhere. Despite the imploding two months, they've seen two years of improvement and results, both team and personal success. They were engaged off-season on how to improve this team. The organization responded with more veteran winning leadership experience with Keith and a high work rate top six winger in Hyman.

McDavid went to Erie in junior when no one wanted to go there. He turned that franchise around despite all the negativity surrounding it. If anything, I personally expect McDavid and Draisaitl dig in even more to shove it in people's faces that this team can win and that their character should not be doubted. If there's a double edged sword, it's that these two player want to win so badly that they will go into God-mode trying to carry this team on their back and, at times, that leads to some of their worst play. There's no quit in them and despite a horrific slide I think they are locked in to move this team forward.

This team still has substantive holes to fill, notably goaltending which has shamefully been patched together for years; a physical shutdown LD that can be trusted to defend on a soft, finesse d-corp and help move Keith into a quality 3LD role. More quality forward depth. Still badly constructed, this is a personnel issue that needs some immediate attention.

Anyone pointing arrows at Draisaitl last night on a David v. Goliath match up down the best player in the world is missing the point or another team's jealous fanbase wishing for Oil failure. Guy's a warrior, just not a perfect one.

 

[Chayos]

He has to pick somebody and Kassian was having one of his activated, involved games yesterday. Kass should be on a line with Drai right now. people underestimate Kass talent level. he can play with the best, but he requires the motivation once in awhile of playing with the best. Foegele is supposed to be like that as well but...

Kass has brought his skates this year. 4G 12pts playing almost exclusive bottomsix on a club with a poor bottomsix. Kass has more EV pts than half of our topsix. Plus he is on pk, and rarely on PP.

This has been a good Kass season, considering his usage. I would be giving him minutes as well. The one aspect of Kass is he can be a gamer in big moments.

Holy cow you almost convinced me not to pay something to part with that money. I am willing to give a 3rd or one of the B prospects to not see that contract again.

 

[frag2]

It’s because Tippett probably told the players that when they have the puck, don’t ever show your skill or what type of game you play. Just pass it to McDavid and Draisaitl every time no matter what

To be fair, Rob Brown was ripping the team in NYR when players not named McDavid or Draistaitl tried to 'make plays'. Majority of our forwards have the offensive creativity of a brick and even if they were 'creative', they dont have the skills to pull it off. Team should play it simple and just shoot the puck at the goalie and hope for a rebound.

 

[CycloneSweep]

They won’t make a knee jerk move. Not in Hollands wheelhouse.

That’s not knee jerk. Fixing glaring issues you have had for years that now has you free falling isn’t knee jeek

 

[Soundwave]

That’s not knee jerk. Fixing glaring issues you have had for years that now has you free falling isn’t knee jeek

lol spot on.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Holy cow you almost convinced me not to pay something to part with that money. I am willing to give a 3rd or one of the B prospects to not see that contract again.

Oh I critique Kass plenty, ftr. Because I know he is a player that leaves a lot on the table. But he's been far better this season than last. He's almost a ,500ppg player this season, despite being mired in bottomsix with players that don't ever even support any offense. Kass is far from the problems with this roster, this season. if we were talking about last season, yes he was a problem. Kass said he would be better with fans in attendance and he has been. Kass has been twice the player here this season than even Foegele has.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Take a look at the two lineups last night, and that the Leafs were well rested, and at home, and tell me who you would expect to win the game.

Most people were expecting a cakewalk. That the Leafs pile up the score. The Oilers brought a workman like effort and about as good as one can expect from what is left of their already not deep starting lineup.

Pretty clearly you're angry and objectivity bites the dust in those moments. Without McD, Nuge, Barrie, Larsson, Klefbom, Archibald and all the players we lost from last season because Holland didn't bother to sign any of them we're a really depleted lineup. We had 8 players on the ice last night that you want to have in a game against an opponent as good as the Leafs.

I'll start giving props when that effort becomes the norm. First time our forecheck has done jack diddly in weeks. It's possible to acknowledge a decent effort while also realizing that isn't what we've seen regularly.
The depleted lineup, I don't have much time for it, every team is facing this. Granted the scales were tipped a little extra against us last night. But Covid has been an issue for all teams.
The departed players, Holland has a done a shit job, there we agree.

I'm angry yes, but i don't think what I said is off base. Where's those workman like efforts from everyone when we have a relatively healthy lineup? Non-existant, the co-workers sit back while McDrai take on the whole project and get crushed. Good effort stickers shouldn't be a rarity.

 

[CycloneSweep]

lol spot on.

Like if your house is falling apart cause you have foundations issues you have ignored, spending a lot of emergency money to fix it isn’t dumb or a knee jerk. You have to do it or lose your house

 

[Billy Barou]

He has to pick somebody and Kassian was having one of his activated, involved games yesterday. Kass should be on a line with Drai right now. people underestimate Kass talent level. he can play with the best, but he requires the motivation once in awhile of playing with the best. Foegele is supposed to be like that as well but...

Kass has brought his skates this year. 4G 12pts playing almost exclusive bottomsix on a club with a poor bottomsix. Kass has more EV pts than half of our topsix. Plus he is on pk, and rarely on PP.

This has been a good Kass season, considering his usage. I would be giving him minutes as well. The one aspect of Kass is he can be a gamer in big moments.

I love Kassian, beast mode Kassian. It's unfortunate we only see it every 3rd or 4th game. The Oilers need to draw straws during pre-game to determine who gets to sucker punch Kassian in the nose.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I was speaking over all and last night was a change but was also an anomaly due to missing players. Tippet typically keeps 4th line between 6-9 mins and third line 7-10. This isn't going to work in the playoffs. You need to be able to roll 4 lines and I think the Oilers have enough depth to do it. When you let lines sit too long it's very difficult to get back to game speed. I believe some of the issue with our bottom 6 getting caved is directly related to sitting too long. Of course there are examples of players doing great with limited time but that isn't typical and isn't the way to run a cup contending hockey club.

I have no problem with players needing to earn their time. I'm not saying give them top 6 minutes but at least keep them engaged, it's a huge issue with Tippet's coaching. You keep overplaying your top lines and they are going to make mental mistakes. We saw it multiple times in the playoffs.

I think this is legitimate criticism and blindspot with Tippett. It's also a bit of a circular question - if this team had better, more consistent quality depth would Tippett play them or if this group of supporting players got more trust and ice-time would they be better? There are three depth types as I see it, Green Bananas trying to establish themselves as NHLers: McLeod, Benson; Reclamation Project: Perlini; Miscast and/or Past Their Prime: Turris, Ryan. Sceviour and Shore are established NHL fourth line options with a bit of bite in their games.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'll start giving props when that effort becomes the norm. First time our forecheck has done jack diddly in weeks. It's possible to acknowledge a decent effort while also realizing that isn't what we've seen regularly.
The depleted lineup, I don't have much time for it, every team is facing this. Granted the scales were tipped a little extra against us last night. But Covid has been an issue for all teams.
The departed players, Holland has a done a shit job, there we agree.

I'm angry yes, but i don't think what I said is off base. Where's those workman like efforts from everyone when we have a relatively healthy lineup? Non-existant, the co-workers sit back while McDrai take on the whole project and get crushed. Good effort stickers shouldn't be a rarity.

I was just trying to be helpful. No offense taken, or anything like that. There should be better times with this squad, and it should be able to come together, and teams need adversity. Arguably the worst failures can be gelling moments. Like @Behind Enemy Lines just said there is no give up in McDrai and Nurse. But they need help, and help has to be coming, and the players that are supposed to be help on this team have to be that.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think this is legitimate criticism and blindspot with Tippett. It's also a bit of a circular question - if this team had better, more consistent quality depth would Tippett play them or if this group of supporting players got more trust and ice-time would they be better? There are three depth types as I see it, Green Bananas trying to establish themselves as NHLers: McLeod, Benson; Reclamation Project: Perlini; Miscast and/or Past Their Prime: Turris, Ryan. Sceviour and Shore are established NHL fourth line options with a bit of bite in their games.

There are tons of “okay at best” depth players that actually improve with more ice time and freedom. Tippett wants all his bottom 6 to be penalty killing time wasters. He has a mold they all need to play like and the guys we have ARENT those players. Perlini isn’t a grinder. McLeod isn’t a grinder. Benson isn’t a grinder. Sceviour is but gets often sat for Turris who also, isn’t a grinder

 

[Billy Barou]

I'll start giving props when that effort becomes the norm. First time our forecheck has done jack diddly in weeks. It's possible to acknowledge a decent effort while also realizing that isn't what we've seen regularly.
The depleted lineup, I don't have much time for it, every team is facing this. Granted the scales were tipped a little extra against us last night. But Covid has been an issue for all teams.
The departed players, Holland has a done a shit job, there we agree.

I'm angry yes, but i don't think what I said is off base. Where's those workman like efforts from everyone when we have a relatively healthy lineup? Non-existant, the co-workers sit back while McDrai take on the whole project and get crushed. Good effort stickers shouldn't be a rarity.

I'm curious if there is such a thing as a negative superstar effect. As in, the McDrai talent enables others on the team to rely on them to single-handedly win the game. They get lackadaisical in bringing their work boots to a team game. How much of this is on the coach?

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm curious if there is such a thing as a negative superstar effect. As in, the McDrai talent enables others on the team to rely on them to single-handedly win the game. They get lackadaisical in bringing their work boots to a team game. How much of this is on the coach?

I think a ton. You need to not treat the stars like they are the only answer and solution. When you treat them differently it breaks a team game. That’s on the coach.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Like if your house is falling apart cause you have foundations issues you have ignored, spending a lot of emergency money to fix it isn’t dumb or a knee jerk. You have to do it or lose your house

This is about as wrong today as your :"Flames have 7 playoff series wins since 2006 post last night.

You've got it completely ass backwards. The Oilers foundation is pretty solid. It doesn't get better than McDrai, Nurse, and hopefully Pulju. What we need is the other assorted and gathered players to start consistently dialing in to team, and playing their hardest every night. The absolute problem here is that Holland has not gathered enough depth and supporting players that are useful. That players like Turris and Koskinen and 4K here is an indictment. Basic laziness. Holland couldn't even be bothered to get better.

This is the list of supporting players that have been their best this season; Ceci, McLeod, Sceviour. you see it every game. Those are the people that have dialed in, clear as day.

We have others like Kass, Yama, Benson, that at least are trying to find it.

We have multiple others learning trade, like Bouchard, Nemo, Laggesson,

You don't want the list of players that are absolutely checked out. Thats not on anybody but Holland for not getting rid of those.

 

[bone]

Kassian was? I didn't even realize he was in the game until that moment. You never notice this player until he takes a dumb penalty. Complete waste of money and a roster spot.

I thought he was noticeable in the first period but disappeared as the game went on. JP wasn't having a particularly inspired game either, so though I didn't agree with the call, it didn't bother me too much that Tippett put him as the extra.

Besides that it was a non-factor as Bouch kind of screwed the pooch after the timeout after doing some great things with the goalie out prior to the timeout. The reason no chance got on net after the timeout was Bouch's meander that allowed Toronto to negate the icing, then his back and forth with Draisaitl until Toronto took the space away cost them any further chances. Whether it was JP or Kassian in light of how it went down wouldn't have made any difference as Edmonton won the only board battle anyways.

Now don't take that to mean I wouldn't put Bouch out for the same situation again, just that after he couldn't find the lane after the first few passes they needed to find another way to open it up, but instead he put Draisaitl into the trap. That's coachable.

 

[xoczar99ox]

I'm curious if there is such a thing as a negative superstar effect. As in, the McDrai talent enables others on the team to rely on them to single-handedly win the game. They get lackadaisical in bringing their work boots to a team game. How much of this is on the coach?

1000% this is a thing. I’ve felt this way for awhile. Certain players make everyone around them better even if they aren’t playing directly with them. Unfortunately I don’t think that McDavid has that ability. I hate to say it but when your put on a pedestal since you were a child it’s hard to get your mindset around it not only being about you. When your a kid with that kind of elite talent you can carry a team by yourself. When your an adult and your playing in the best League with the best talent in the world, that just won’t cut it. To be a true leader you need to be able to bring everyone on your team with you. You need to be able to give them the confidence to play at there best abilities. Everyone on the team needs to know they are appreciated and that they are equal when it comes to the value of there effort and work. The coach is a huge part in delivering and reinforcing that message. That’s what made Gretzky and Messier the best leaders this sport has seen.

 

[CycloneSweep]

This is about as wrong today as your :"Flames have 7 playoff series wins since 2006 post last night.

You've got it completely ass backwards. The Oilers foundation is pretty solid. It doesn't get better than McDrai, Nurse, and hopefully Pulju. What we need is the other assorted and gathered players to start consistently dialing in to team, and playing their hardest every night. The absolute problem here is that Holland has not gathered enough depth and supporting players that are useful. That players like Turris and Koskinen and 4K here is an indictment. Basic laziness. Holland couldn't even be bothered to get better.

This is the list of supporting players that have been their best this season; Ceci, McLeod, Sceviour. you see it every game. Those are the people that have dialed in, clear as day.

We have others like Kass, Yama, Benson, that at least are trying to find it.

We have multiple others learning trade, like Bouchard, Nemo, Laggesson,

You don't want the list of players that are absolutely checked out. Thats not on anybody but Holland for not getting rid of those.

Foundation wise i am referring to defence and goaltending. Nurse is a LOW end #1 d and is mediocre at best defensively.

our defence is goaltending is some of the worst in the league and without that being at least solid, we won’t go anywhere. Goaltending and defence is a foundation. Nurse does t belong in the same sentence as McDrai, not even close. Nurse is closer to Nuge or Hyman than he is McDrai. Nurse isn’t even a top 15 defender in the league, not even close.

 

[fireantz]

In my opinion, Hollands biggest mistake was giving Kassian a new contract. Everyone craps on Keith’s contract but he serves a purpose til the Bakersfield trio are ready. Sceviour is eating his lunch. Kass’s 3.2M should be in Puljujarvi’s pocket and no hit Kassian should be down the road.