Post-Game Talk: Boston Leap Frogs over Us No More Wild Card Spot for Buds- 6-2 Loss to Washington

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zoA

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Mar 23, 2010
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FYI

If you take the 187 NHL dmen that are regulars in the NHL (300 minutes played) and sort them by goals against for 60 minutes (GA60) then Roman Polak ends up 8th (worst) of 187 players giving up 3.27 goals against at 5v5 even strength. :amazed:

Only 7 NHL Dmen are on the ice for more goals against / 60 minutes this year than Roman.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...300&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=DESC

PS. Cody Franson (17th) and Jake Gardiner (18th) are also in the top 20 overall with most goals against at ES 5v5. 3 Dmen in the top 20 is not good. :shakehead

Rielly (39th) and Phaneuf (54) are not too far behind.

lol, my post was facetious in nature and predominately poking fun at the quoted poster :help:
 

pooleboy

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Dec 23, 2009
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Still trying to figure out what Rielly was doing on that 2nd goal when he missed the puck at the point. It goes by him and instead of skating, he stops, lets WSH breakout with a 2-on-1 and goes for a change!....what the hell?

...TSN conveniently overlooks that and instead pauses the highlights to show Clarkson miss the trailer.

Plays like this are what people are talking about when they say stuff like "Some guys just don't want to play defense". It's not ALL Kessel.

i see this from guys like phaneuf all the time, on the PP he stays out too long, puck gets dumped out he just goes for a change.

your leaders do it, it will eventually wear off on the rest of the team.
 

Hurt

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Apr 6, 2009
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This season is playing out like a nightmare. There's always next year...
 

Suntouchable13

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Dec 20, 2003
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That 10-1-1 stretch is completely wasted. What else is new with this team? The bright side is, they can go on another similar run. Of course, that will be followed up with another losing streak that will negate that good run :facepalm:
 

AlexMo89

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Sep 29, 2014
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I am hoping to see some glimpses of Horachek's new system, looking forward to seeing if their is some progress.
 

Pyrophorus

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Jun 1, 2009
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I am hoping to see some glimpses of Horachek's new system, looking forward to seeing if their is some progress.

There was.
Aside from pucks being in net, I felt we dominated them: Possesion, shots, scoring chances, scoring chances allowed, faceoffs.

We just need to score again.
 

AlexMo89

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Sep 29, 2014
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Yeah I did think we were better with limiting shots and scoring changes, we also weren't hemmed in our own zone which was nice.

What killed us was us. They capitalized on our brain farts, so hopefully we can limit those and keep the same possession and shots against down :)

There was.
Aside from pucks being in net, I felt we dominated them: Possesion, shots, scoring chances, scoring chances allowed, faceoffs.

We just need to score again.
 

ULF_55

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There was.
Aside from pucks being in net, I felt we dominated them: Possesion, shots, scoring chances, scoring chances allowed, faceoffs.

We just need to score again.

Can the Leafs do both?

Can they play a responsible game and produce?

I'm looking at the Kings as an example.

Are the Leafs' players willing to give up pursuit of their personal goals (I'm paid to score) and buy in to a team objective?
 

Rogie

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May 17, 2013
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I know we can look at player strengths and weaknesses and put lines together. So, Kessel, being an elite shooter and passer with elite speed will and does find open space, and gets shots away consistently, though seldom gets a tip in or gets any garbage from close to the crease because (historically) he doesn't go there (at least so far). So, his linemate(s) need to battle in the corners along the boards, in dirty areas, and do some physical stuff in order to get and keep the puck and get it to Kessel. This is fine and (kind of) one way to build lines. And of course, some linemates will have more defensive prowess than others and if a player (Kessel) is weak(er) defensively, then, he'll need some complementary players to make up a little for that deficiency on the line. I just think looking at Corsi +/- is one way (very simple yet worth considering) in putting line combos together. It's statistical I know and it might put some players together that maybe don't seem intuitively would be the best match. But, many are often asking what good is Corsi if it just predicts or tells a picture of what happened or should happen. Well, I think it can be used here; OF COURSE, not a be all end all, but it's worth at least trying as part of the things that are considered when putting lines together.

Winnick and Kadri with Bozak really makes sense from a Corsi +/- perspective. At 5on5 Close Kadri (50.9%)and Winnick (52.4%) have the two best Corsis among forwards. This line NEEDS to be left together and given a chance to see what they can do - for 5 or 10 or 20 games!

It just seem so OBVIOUSLY SIMPLE AND EASY to try this - doesn't it?

Almost every game, Kessel/Bozak/JVR have been outshot (outcorsied), sometime as much as 10 or 15 Corsi's per game. Constantly, close to the worst Corsi forwards, game after game after game. Yet, ONE GAME, just ONE MEASLEY GAME together and not even for the entire game, and Winnick/Kadri/Kessel had the best Corsis among all forwards. What are the coaches even looking for? A goal on every shift?

Remember folks we don't have to be constantly searching for production. We've been one of the best producing teams now for 3 or 4 years and currently are (or were) the highest scoring team in the NHL. I don't take this for granted and how hard it is to SCORE - it's incredibly difficult and you don't let elite offensive talent go. But, we have to manage it correctly. We DON'T need more production, we need to give up FEWER GOALS. So, this line of Winnick/Kadri/Kessel, well, it doesn't matter about their TOTAL production (we will get production) but how few they can allow. I would bet money they can be a better possession line than Bozak/Kessel/JVR, and if Kessel becomes a more positive player we WIN BIG time. He doesn't need 40 goals or 50 goals. We need him on a line that can GIVE UP FEWER GOALS, then, the entire team production requirement is less and we become even better defensively and our secondary scoring helps us win games. When we are giving up 4 or 5 goals, secondary scoring is likely not going to matter. When we get our GA/60 down to under 3 and closer to 2, suddenly secondary scoring makes a difference. We HAVE scoring on this team and we have secondary scoring; there may be dry spells and droughts but this team can score (the stats are there in black and white) and if we could cut our goals against down, our secondary scoring becomes more important and contributes more to wins than it does now.
 
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KPower

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Jan 17, 2012
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We will have another big winning streak and move up the standings only to collapse in March.
 

happyaccident

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May 14, 2013
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I know we can look at player strengths and weaknesses and put lines together. So, Kessel, being an elite shooter and passer with elite speed will and does find open space, and gets shots away consistently, though seldom gets a tip in or gets any garbage from close to the crease because (historically) he doesn't go there (at least so far). So, his linemate(s) need to battle in the corners along the boards, in dirty areas, and do some physical stuff in order to get and keep the puck and get it to Kessel. This is fine and (kind of) one way to build lines. And of course, some linemates will have more defensive prowess than others and if a player (Kessel) is weak(er) defensively, then, he'll need some complementary players to make up a little for that deficiency on the line. I just think looking at Corsi +/- is one way (very simple yet worth considering) in putting line combos together. It's statistical I know and it might put some players together that maybe don't seem intuitively would be the best match. But, many are often asking what good is Corsi if it just predicts or tells a picture of what happened or should happen. Well, I think it can be used here; OF COURSE, not a be all end all, but it's worth at least trying as part of the things that are considered when putting lines together.

Winnick and Kadri with Bozak really makes sense from a Corsi +/- perspective. At 5on5 Close Kadri (50.9%)and Winnick (52.4%) have the two best Corsis among forwards. This line NEEDS to be left together and given a chance to see what they can do - for 5 or 10 or 20 games!

It just seem so OBVIOUSLY SIMPLE AND EASY to try this - doesn't it?

Almost every game, Kessel/Bozak/JVR have been outshot (outcorsied), sometime as much as 10 or 15 Corsi's per game. Constantly, close to the worst Corsi forwards, game after game after game. Yet, ONE GAME, just ONE MEASLEY GAME together and not even for the entire game, and Winnick/Kadri/Kessel had the best Corsis among all forwards. What are the coaches even looking for? A goal on every shift?

Remember folks we don't have to be constantly searching for production. We've been one of the best producing teams now for 3 or 4 years and currently are (or were) the highest scoring team in the NHL. I don't take this for granted and how hard it is to SCORE - it's incredibly difficult and you don't let elite offensive talent go. But, we have to manage it correctly. We DON'T need more production, we need to give up FEWER GOALS. So, this line of Winnick/Kadri/Kessel, well, it doesn't matter about their TOTAL production (we will get production) but how few they can allow. I would bet money they can be a better possession line than Bozak/Kessel/JVR, and if Kessel becomes a more positive player we WIN BIG time. He doesn't need 40 goals or 50 goals. We need him on a line that can GIVE UP FEWER GOALS, then, the entire team production requirement is less and we become even better defensively and our secondary scoring helps us win games. When we are giving up 4 or 5 goals, secondary scoring is likely not going to matter. When we get our GA/60 down to under 3 and closer to 2, suddenly secondary scoring makes a difference. We HAVE scoring on this team and we have secondary scoring; there may be dry spells and droughts but this team can score (the stats are there in black and white) and if we could cut our goals against down, our secondary scoring becomes more important and contributes more to wins than it does now.

Hope they give that line another shot, reuniting the defensive sh**storm line was depressing and predictably unproductive.
They keyed on Kessel in the 1st and (as anybody who was watching already knew), he was turning the puck over like crazy but a little patience please, he's in a bit of a puck-handling slump and he's not used to actual 5v5 cycling, let's give it a chance.
 

Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
11,414
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Windsor, ON
Yeah cause when Kessel was traded here we had top 10 goaltending and young players in every position right? Oh and lets not forget about the playoff pace after half the season? Not even close to the same thing.

I agree with what you said about Kane/Kessel, but this doesn't change the fact that they are pretty much identical players in terms of what they bring to a team. The style they play is irrelevant, if we had Kane instead of Kessel right now, absolutely nothing would change. We'd have an 80 point, soft winger with "character issues" who we would "never win a cup with".

I don't know, we just finished 22nd last year due to our typical 18 wheeler. It's starting even earlier this year. If history repeats itself, a top 5 pick isn't necessarily impossible.
 

HellasLEAF

'93 to Infinity
Sep 14, 2006
15,345
1,800
Boy oh boy, look at the depth of the Panthers. They were an afterthought for years but now all those players are starting to blossom.

Add to that solid cap position and they are going to be better than us for years imo while we build.

We have been basically wasting time while other teams have been getting better around us the hard way. Burke's retool is truly failed us now. I see two trades that need to be made pretty much immediately and a big one later on.
 

Tyler Biggs*

Guest
A team isn't going to learn and adapt overnight, especially since Horachek's system is different than Carlyle's (puck possession was much better tonight and they outshot them). Not sure what you were expecting. Even if this team needs an overhaul it will take more than one game with a new system to determine that.
 
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