Post-Game Talk: BOBROVSKY, YOU'RE BACK ON THE CASE! Pens - 4, Blue Jackets - 3

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You most certainly don't tell the best player in the world to change his game, you find players that accommodate him best. If Crosby feels he plays a better game with Dupuis/Gibbons then so be it.

Ideally they get Kane in the offseason but it ain't happening now.

All this talk about him having to change his game doesn't mean it will make him a lesser player. Some of the fastest, most skilled guys to play in this league like Kariya, Gartner and Bure would change gears and leave guys flat footed all of the time. A guy like Dupuis has to play 100 mph to be effective. Crosby doesn't.

And when Yzerman had to bring in Chris Kunitz to play with him on team Canada, because they had so much trouble finding Crosby wingers last Olympics and a guy like Benn is saying he can't keep up with Crosby, while on the Pens you play Dupuis over Iggy and Gibbons over BB, that's not what I would consider a positive thing TBTH.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

All this talk about him having to change his game doesn't mean it will make him a lesser player. Some of the fastest, most skilled guys to play in this league like Kariya, Gartner and Bure would change gears and leave guys flat footed all of the time. A guy like Dupuis has to play 100 mph to be effective. Crosby doesn't.

And when Yzerman had to bring in Chris Kunitz to play with him on team Canada, because they had so much trouble finding Crosby wingers last Olympics and a guy like Benn is saying he can't keep up with Crosby, while on the Pens you play Dupuis over Iggy and Gibbons over BB, that's not what I would consider a positive thing TBTH.

I never said it was the best thing, but who I am to judge who would play better with Crosby than Crosby himself?

They aren't sniffing the Cup without Crosby at his best. And since there isn't a Kane like option, you just gotta roll with it now and hope for the best.

 

[TheSniper26]

The pros are all clearly better suited to their jobs than we are, but that doesn't stop us from questioning their dubious decisions. Bylsma has an exceptional resume, but we still collectively facepalm when Glass and Adams get 13 minutes each in a playoff game.

People here wanted DB's head on a pike when they thought keeping Dupuis on Sid's line and moving Iggy to Malkin's LW last year was his idea alone. It was counter-intuitive. He was the skilled RH shot winger that we'd been pining for to help in games when dedicated defensive teams keyed in on Sid. Instead, Dupuis stayed, the line faltered, and DB was vilified further.

It's starting to look like Crosby had a lot more influence on that decision than previously thought. So what makes it a better idea now? What has earned Sid the benefit of the doubt when it comes to speedy, talent-impaired wingers?

Well, for one thing, I'm not entirely convinced that the bolded is true. Bylsma saying that Crosby likes to play with speed isn't exactly a revelation and it's certainly not an indication that he's handpicking his linemates. Crosby doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that's looking to play a bigger role than the one he has on the ice.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Dupuis not working isn't necessarily an indictment of the speed-on-the-wings formula. It's an indictment of Dupuis' inability to finish the countless chances he's given and Kunitz's fairly lackluster playoff performances. It's the personnel, not the formula. The fact that Dupuis had so many chances to squander tells us that, on some level, the formula works. It's just a shame that our "speedy winger" options are fairly limited.

For the record, I'm not opposed to Bennett with Crosby and I do think Crosby has it in him to adjust his game and still be effective. I just think it's the backwards way of building the team. Sid likes speed so the priority should have been finding quality, speedy wingers. Sid/Geno are the foundation we should be building from. In general, I put a lot more of this on Shero than Bylsma/Crosby and I say that as someone that thinks Shero is a good GM.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Pretty sure if we started a training camp, and a new coach came in and said to Sid: "we're putting a sniper on your right wing, so you can find him in open spaces and a power forward on your left who'll crash the net and step in when people mess with you," he wouldn't insist on scrapping those plans in order to play with Kunitz and Dupuis all the time.

Crosby plays at full speed because his coach wants him to play at full speed, all the time.

 

[IcedCapp]

SOMEONE TELL ME WHO TO BLAME AND HATE.

I'm way too ****ing confused for this ****.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well, for one thing, I'm not entirely convinced that the bolded is true. Bylsma saying that Crosby likes to play with speed isn't exactly a revelation and it's certainly not an indication that he's handpicking his linemates. Crosby doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that's looking to play a bigger role than the one he has on the ice.

I don't think he's handpicking his linemates. I do think that DB's telling the truth when he says that Crosby has always wanted speed in his wingers, and that consequently the decision to keep guys like Dupuis and Gibbons is made to accommodate his preferences...despite the team having other talented wingers at its disposal.

It seems likely to me that Iggy wasn't being kept from Sid's wing because Dupuis is his pet or because he was oblivious to the skill upgrade and natural fit. He was kept from that spot because Sid likes what Dupes brings as a speedy winger.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Dupuis not working isn't necessarily an indictment of the speed-on-the-wings formula. It's an indictment of Dupuis' inability to finish the countless chances he's given and Kunitz's fairly lackluster playoff performances. It's the personnel, not the formula. The fact that Dupuis had so many chances to squander tells us that, on some level, the formula works. It's just a shame that our "speedy winger" options are fairly limited.

For the record, I'm not opposed to Bennett with Crosby and I do think Crosby has it in him to adjust his game and still be effective. I just think it's the backwards way of building the team. Sid likes speed so the priority should have been finding quality, speedy wingers. Sid/Geno are the foundation we should be building from. In general, I put a lot more of this on Shero than Bylsma/Crosby and I say that as someone that thinks Shero is a good GM.

But Sniper...Yzerman had a hard time finding the right speedy winger options, and he literally had the best possible array of talented wingers in the world. Sid ended up with Kunitz and a defensive-oriented converted center and the line played a shutdown role.

It has proven exceptionally difficult to find the right wingers for Crosby no matter how many great options are available. On this team, it looks like it may be Gibbons this year and Dupuis moving forward.

If Sid's priorities above all else are speed and funneling the puck to him asap, I'm simply not going to lament the calibre of his RW situation any more. He deserves what he gets because the realistic options that are better than Dupes are extremely limited.

 

[DegenX]

I feel like if Sid really wants Dupuis on his RW, we should throw Megna in there. The guy has sick wheels, ferocious forechecking, is big enough that he's a legit net-front presence and he has enough snarl to stick up for Sid a bit. He's not going to wow you with his playmaking, but this guy is designed to play straight-line, north-south hockey with speed and grit.

It's been brought up before that Megna would potentially be a good fit for Sid, while BB would be better with Geno. I'm trying to remember if Megna got any time there, and I'm drawing a blank.

 

[mpp9]

Kesler and Kane in the offseason I suppose. Those are the only two guys I see being available that fit the description and are significant enough upgrades over Dupes where Shero will pay a high price.

I'm not exactly against Sid playing a role where he skates the other team into exhaustion, which in turn opens things up for our 2nd and 3rd lines. That's what happened the last time we won the Cup. So it's not like it doesn't have merit.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I feel like if Sid really wants Dupuis on his RW, we should throw Megna in there. The guy has sick wheels, ferocious forechecking, is big enough that he's a legit net-front presence and he has enough snarl to stick up for Sid a bit. He's not going to wow you with his playmaking, but this guy is designed to play straight-line, north-south hockey with speed and grit.

That's not a bad choice.

 

[Michael8771*]

I understand Sid likes to play a fast game. I get that, but if it's costing Stempniak or Bennett a spot on the top line in favor of someone like Gibbons, that ain't right. Bylsma needs to sack up and play the best lines available. It's not like Kunitz is exactly Grabner out there anyway. He's been playing like garbage for months, so maybe it's time to try out:

Bennett - Crosby - Stemniak
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Gibbons
Engelland - Vitale - Adams/Glass/Megna

I think you're over complicating the matter. Our lines as they were in the second half of wednesday's helped garner us a victory. If things don't work, or we become too predictable and get shutdown then yeah, change something. As long as those top three lines contribute consistently let's leave it alone. I'm all for whatever works for the time being. If adjustments need to be made hopefully DB does so accordingly. To my surprise he did uncharacteristically make modifications last game that paid off. Let's give it a chance.

 

[themethod7]

Seriously though, do we know if Shero has called Gordon Bombay to inquire about the availability of Luis Mendoza yet?

 

[Rocket of Russia]

If these are Sid's preferences, I won't have any sympathy or make any excuses if he gets shut down against a team like Boston again flanked by two chickens with their heads cut off. There is a big, skilled winger who can hang onto the puck and create on his own available.

We can also forget about adding guys like Hemsky or Vanek at any upcoming deadline.

Not really important and to clarify I agree with the overall thesis – Sid’s desired characteristics in a winger are actually counterintuitive to what’s best for him in a playoff atmosphere – but Hemsky has much better wheels than Vanek. But with those two guys, they might have the pedigree that Bennett does not, to convince Kunitz and the entire team, that Vanek/Hemsky will be line 1’s Neal, not Kunitz.

why not put Stempniak back with Sid if BB isn't going to be there?

That would make more sense. Plus it would keep line 1 from having 3 lefties and line 3 with 3 righties…Only thing I could think of was Bylsma rewarding him for his strong play, a temporary situation. We already know the reason of moving Bennett to help the 3rd was complete BS.

When Goc is back, if we are still around, goodbye Vitale. That is the lineup folks.

You’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who disagrees with what will be the choice. 100% it will be Vitale. Gibbons’ game 1 likely saved him from being the choice Dan makes. Vitale, Gibbons, Glass, Bennett, Adams. is it overly negative to think Bylsma would scratch Bennett before Adams?

I'd say the one benefit to Beau playing LW with Sutter is that if Juice starts playing lazy hockey again, Beau simply takes his spot having already played some games on LW and Juice moves down.

Agreed.

Bennett - Crosby - Stemniak
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Gibbons
Engelland - Vitale - Adams/Glass/Megna

No way Kunitz-Crosby isn’t a pair.

He [Sid] can play with anyone, so this insistence to play at top speed all the time is dumb.

It really speaks to the complacency and arrogance that has really started to bleed from the organization as a whole, like they have everything figured out they need to do to win and that they just have to “execute.”

Sid’s “I need speed” thesis has failed. I can’t really think of any elite talent that ever didn’t have an east/west aspect to their game; not even Pavel Bure. Look at Mackinnon play now. That’s the kind of speed that would make Dupuis red from envy, but he changes speeds enough for defenses to not know what he’s doing. And this might just be crazy talk but it might help Mackinnon that defenses have to worry about O’Reilly and Parenteau (gasp, a playmaker).

 

[ColePens]

Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib 9m
Letang said he showed lack of respect to teammates with penalties, agreed with coach decision to cut ice time #pens

Accountability -

****ING right!

 

[ColePens]

I just realized - we are talking about tmw's game. Let's go back to series discussion.