Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

[topshelf15]

Spezza at his worst playing with a nagging back is still better than Ryan at his best playing with Getzlaf and Perry.

We should not make a trade to get Spezza back today.... but anyone that does not realize Spezza today in Dallas is better than Ryan ever was is nuts.

Spezza straight up makes everyone on the ice with him better. Ryan does not do that. Spezza makes smart plays all over the ice and some doozy gambles that do not pay off from time to time.

Spezza doesn't back check like Mike Fisher or Pageau but he also "seems" like he is slower and not "trying" when he is not that slow and he is being effective enough.

Please people stop with this negative stuff about Spezza. Spezza is still probably better than either Turris and Brassard. Whatever defence you give up with Spezza, he more than makes up for it by making ANY wingers he plays with score significantly more.

Spezza is an elite playmaker his entire career and he has a lethal shot. Not being "perfect" as a player does not make him bad. Every star player can not be Alfredsson or Zetterberg.

Sorry cant agree here ,neither are top line centers.But at this point and for the last few Turris has played far closer to one than Spezza has

 

[FlyingJ]

Yep ,he was also one of the teams most highest risk player ,towards the end he became much too easy to play against .What little speed he had had left him ,his backcheck was nonexsistant.In short he was far too risky a player to play top 6 mins on a young rebuilding team .With some younger more speedy options we had coming .Dallas has gotten some good mins out of him ,but it has come at a cost of actually being able to have a consistant team.And not just some that need to score 6 goals to win

This just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. At all. Dallas' biggest issue is goaltending, and it's not the Spezza contract that sunk them there. It's that they have $10.4 million of their cap tied up in two mediocre goalies in Lehtonen and Niemi (the latter's good seasons coming when he played on powerhouses).

No it is not ,Spezza was and still is not a two way player .In his youth before the lost step and physical decline ,you would have been correct .But now and his last few seasons with us ,this was the main reason as to why we moved him out when we did

There were plenty of reasons to trade Spezza, to be sure. His wonky back, his age, his contract situation, etc.. But if we're being honest, none of those were why he was moved. He was moved because he agreed it was time to move on (and after 11 seasons of what he put up with from fans and the media here, I don't blame him), and to be used as a scape-goat by management for the team missing the playoffs and for MacLean's ego undermining why he had success as a coach in the first place.

The idea we needed to move Spezza to improve the team's defense? I might be able to buy that is MacLean had EVER employed a decent defensive system while he was coach here. But every season under him had the Sens giving up a ton of shots (the difference was in the first two seasons we at least tended to outshoot opponents, and in 2012-13 we also got amazing goaltending from Anderson, Bishop, and Lehner in a shortened season). We were cr@p defensively under MacLean both with and without Spezza. Hell, he gave Greening-Smith-Neil 15 mins or more some nights, and that line was a tire-fire in the defensive zone.

And what happened the first season without Spezza? MacLean got axed early on while the team was struggling with the exact same issues, and it needed a miracle run the likes of which we'll probably never see here again to make the playoffs. And it came with some journeyman goalie who could be out of an NHL job by this summer. What happened the year after that run? Oh, right, same thing, except defensive coverage under Cameron may have actually been worse in some regards.

It's only years later under Boucher that the team has improved defensively (and frankly we're still not great in that regard despite how much fans ramble on about "the system," but it has been an improvement). So this idea that Spezza was seriously hurting the team defensively doesn't fly. What hurt this team defensively was two head coaches who couldn't implement a defensive system if their lives depended on it.

I'll also take issue with Spezza's "last few seasons" with the Sens being bad. His last season was not good (though he was still putting up decent point totals), but lo and behold, once we actually got him some talent he meshed with in the form of Hemsky, he was pretty good. That also made people forget just how garbage Michalek had been up to that point in the 2013-14 season. 2012-13? Where Spezza played just 5 regular season games due to injury? You're honestly going to judge his season on 5 games? And in 2011-12 he was great, finishing 4th in the league in points, and being a major reason for the team's turnaround along with Karlsson's emergence as a superstar.

So of his last 3 seasons, one was bad (but still had decent point totals), one was a wash, and one was great. Truly, you're narrative is bang on! He'd sucked for years!

Let's face facts, people's obsession with Spezza not being a two-way player is ridiculous. The guy put in tons of effort to improve on the defensive side of the game and it was noticable. Was he ever going to win the Selke, or be like a Datsyuk? No, but if that's your standard then prepare to be disappointed a lot.

 

[Stylizer1]

This just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. At all. Dallas' biggest issue is goaltending, and it's not the Spezza contract that sunk them there. It's that they have $10.4 million of their cap tied up in two mediocre goalies in Lehtonen and Niemi (the latter's good seasons coming when he played on powerhouses).



There were plenty of reasons to trade Spezza, to be sure. His wonky back, his age, his contract situation, etc.. But if we're being honest, none of those were why he was moved. He was moved because he agreed it was time to move on (and after 11 seasons of what he put up with from fans and the media here, I don't blame him), and to be used as a scape-goat by management for the team missing the playoffs and for MacLean's ego undermining why he had success as a coach in the first place.

The idea we needed to move Spezza to improve the team's defense? I might be able to buy that is MacLean had EVER employed a decent defensive system while he was coach here. But every season under him had the Sens giving up a ton of shots (the difference was in the first two seasons we at least tended to outshoot opponents, and in 2012-13 we also got amazing goaltending from Anderson, Bishop, and Lehner in a shortened season). We were cr@p defensively under MacLean both with and without Spezza. Hell, he gave Greening-Smith-Neil 15 mins or more some nights, and that line was a tire-fire in the defensive zone.

And what happened the first season without Spezza? MacLean got axed early on while the team was struggling with the exact same issues, and it needed a miracle run the likes of which we'll probably never see here again to make the playoffs. And it came with some journeyman goalie who could be out of an NHL job by this summer. What happened the year after that run? Oh, right, same thing, except defensive coverage under Cameron may have actually been worse in some regards.

It's only years later under Boucher that the team has improved defensively (and frankly we're still not great in that regard). So this idea that Spezza was seriously hurting the team defensively doesn't fly. What hurt this team defensively was two head coaches who couldn't implement a defensive system if their lives depended on it.

I'll also take issue with Spezza's "last few seasons" with the Sens being bad. His last season was not good (though he was still putting up decent point totals), but lo and behold, once we actually got him some talent he meshed with in the form of Hemsky, he was pretty good. It also made people forget just how garbage Michalek had been up to that point in the 2013-14 season. 2012-13? Where Spezza played just 5 regular season games due to injury? You're honestly going to judge his season on 5 games? And in 2011-12 he was great, finishing 4th in the league in points, and being a major reason for the team's turnaround along with Karlsson's emergence as a superstar.

So of his last 3 seasons, one was bad (but still had decent point totals), one was a wash, and one was great. Truly, you're narrative is bang on! He'd sucked for years!

Let's face facts, people's obsession with Spezza not being a two-way player is ridiculous. The guy put in tons of effort to improve on the defensive side of the game and it was noticable. Was he ever going to win the Selke, or be like a Datsyuk? No, but if that's your standard then prepare to be disappointed a lot.

That's what I meant.

 

[pepty]

It looks as though he'll be back tonight against the Isles.
Per the Citizen:
Clarke MacArthur-Jean-Gabriel Pageau-Bobby Ryan

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Sorry cant agree here ,neither are top line centers.But at this point and for the last few Turris has played far closer to one than Spezza has

Mmmeh. Give spezza good linemates and he can still put up the 1LC numbers. (He did just last year and wasn't playing with worldbeaters every shift) and very little to do with insulation. People say well if he's playing against top comp he can't do anything look what happened here his points we declining. I don't think he can carry a Colin greening like he used to be able to do against top lines and d pairings. But with better linemates? He's almost a guarentee to his 60 points.

 

[Stylizer1]

Mmmeh. Give spezza good linemates and he can still put up the 1LC numbers. (He did just last year and wasn't playing with worldbeaters every shift) and very little to do with insulation. People say well if he's playing against top comp he can't do anything look what happened here his points we declining. I don't think he can carry a Colin greening like he used to be able to do against top lines and d pairings. But with better linemates? He's almost a guarentee to his 60 points.

Good line mates means at least 50 assists.

 

[Agent Zub]

A Hoffman-Spezza-Stone line would have been insane. Each player might have hit 70.

Heck, just Spezza-Stone would have have been amazing to see.

 

[Super Cake]

Did anyone see our record with Ryan and without Ryan?

I believe we win more games without Ryan in the lineup.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Just listened to Bobby on the post game interview. This guy is so downtrodden. I hope he makes it out and comes back to his own level again. I truly think it is a mental thing he is dealing with, that adds to the injury thing.

God speed, Ricky Bobby! God speed...

 

[BurgoShark]

Just listened to Bobby on the post game interview. This guy is so downtrodden. I hope he makes it out and comes back to his own level again. I truly think it is a mental thing he is dealing with, that adds to the injury thing.

God speed, Ricky Bobby! God speed...

Interesting that both Ryan and MacArthur spoke about re-signing so that they could play together. I've been saying for quite a while now that I'd like to see Ryan play with a healthy MacArthur again before bagging him.

Also, on Bobby, I loved the comment along the lines of "we've got size and speed. Well I don't have speed, but we've got it as a team"

He played well today. Scored once. Would have scored earlier if he wasn't tripped/hooked after deeking the goalie.

 

[topshelf15]

This just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. At all. Dallas' biggest issue is goaltending, and it's not the Spezza contract that sunk them there. It's that they have $10.4 million of their cap tied up in two mediocre goalies in Lehtonen and Niemi (the latter's good seasons coming when he played on powerhouses).



There were plenty of reasons to trade Spezza, to be sure. His wonky back, his age, his contract situation, etc.. But if we're being honest, none of those were why he was moved. He was moved because he agreed it was time to move on (and after 11 seasons of what he put up with from fans and the media here, I don't blame him), and to be used as a scape-goat by management for the team missing the playoffs and for MacLean's ego undermining why he had success as a coach in the first place.

The idea we needed to move Spezza to improve the team's defense? I might be able to buy that is MacLean had EVER employed a decent defensive system while he was coach here. But every season under him had the Sens giving up a ton of shots (the difference was in the first two seasons we at least tended to outshoot opponents, and in 2012-13 we also got amazing goaltending from Anderson, Bishop, and Lehner in a shortened season). We were cr@p defensively under MacLean both with and without Spezza. Hell, he gave Greening-Smith-Neil 15 mins or more some nights, and that line was a tire-fire in the defensive zone.

And what happened the first season without Spezza? MacLean got axed early on while the team was struggling with the exact same issues, and it needed a miracle run the likes of which we'll probably never see here again to make the playoffs. And it came with some journeyman goalie who could be out of an NHL job by this summer. What happened the year after that run? Oh, right, same thing, except defensive coverage under Cameron may have actually been worse in some regards.

It's only years later under Boucher that the team has improved defensively (and frankly we're still not great in that regard despite how much fans ramble on about "the system," but it has been an improvement). So this idea that Spezza was seriously hurting the team defensively doesn't fly. What hurt this team defensively was two head coaches who couldn't implement a defensive system if their lives depended on it.

I'll also take issue with Spezza's "last few seasons" with the Sens being bad. His last season was not good (though he was still putting up decent point totals), but lo and behold, once we actually got him some talent he meshed with in the form of Hemsky, he was pretty good. That also made people forget just how garbage Michalek had been up to that point in the 2013-14 season. 2012-13? Where Spezza played just 5 regular season games due to injury? You're honestly going to judge his season on 5 games? And in 2011-12 he was great, finishing 4th in the league in points, and being a major reason for the team's turnaround along with Karlsson's emergence as a superstar.

So of his last 3 seasons, one was bad (but still had decent point totals), one was a wash, and one was great. Truly, you're narrative is bang on! He'd sucked for years!

Let's face facts, people's obsession with Spezza not being a two-way player is ridiculous. The guy put in tons of effort to improve on the defensive side of the game and it was noticable. Was he ever going to win the Selke, or be like a Datsyuk? No, but if that's your standard then prepare to be disappointed a lot.

He did suck at anything other than off zone or PP mins ,his injuries slowed an already so/so skater.He was just too risky for us playing top 6 mins,and in all situations .You are seeing this happening in Dallas ,you cant have any sort of defensive structure ,if one of your most played centers is terrible at it

 

[Tuna99]

Interesting that both Ryan and MacArthur spoke about re-signing so that they could play together. I've been saying for quite a while now that I'd like to see Ryan play with a healthy MacArthur again before bagging him.

Also, on Bobby, I loved the comment along the lines of "we've got size and speed. Well I don't have speed, but we've got it as a team"

He played well today. Scored once. Would have scored earlier if he wasn't tripped/hooked after deeking the goalie.

Ryan with a huge chance to set the dialogue of his career onto a new path with these playoffs. I don't think it happens just because it never happens with Ryan - but for years he's had so many opportunities to re-write his story here in Ottawa, and nothing bigger then this.

But his post game where he's saying he was unsure of his finger, and MacCarthur being back will help his game, - it just seems there's always a built in reason for Ryan being the way he is, but the real reason is he's not a fully dedicated athlete. The doubt doesn't come from his hurt finger, it comes from years of 50% summers and 50% backchecking, I think he has doubt now about what he can actually do in an NHL game, he's golden in a skills competition, but in an NHL hockey game he looks like he has no confidence.

Just from the visuals yesterday, Ryan looks like hes aged about 5 years this year. He looks pasty, he looks tired, he looks sad. Team has talked about things happening away from the rink we don't know about, and my guess is it has to do with Ryan based on the fact it looks like he hasn't been outside for 5 years. Could be anything, but the guy looks broken, he's never looked so unconfident, he looks defeated.

But it's up to him to turn that around. Only he can find happiness in his hockey career, only he can accomplish what he's paid to do and said he can do. Time to prove all of your hecklers wrong. he can turn it all around over the next 16W, let's see what the results are.

 

[BrawlFan]

Ryan with a huge chance to set the dialogue of his career onto a new path with these playoffs. I don't think it happens just because it never happens with Ryan - but for years he's had so many opportunities to re-write his story here in Ottawa, and nothing bigger then this.

But his post game where he's saying he was unsure of his finger, and MacCarthur being back will help his game, - it just seems there's always a built in reason for Ryan being the way he is, but the real reason is he's not a fully dedicated athlete. The doubt doesn't come from his hurt finger, it comes from years of 50% summers and 50% backchecking, I think he has doubt now about what he can actually do in an NHL game, he's golden in a skills competition, but in an NHL hockey game he looks like he has no confidence.

Just from the visuals yesterday, Ryan looks like hes aged about 5 years this year. He looks pasty, he looks tired, he looks sad. Team has talked about things happening away from the rink we don't know about, and my guess is it has to do with Ryan based on the fact it looks like he hasn't been outside for 5 years. Could be anything, but the guy looks broken, he's never looked so unconfident, he looks defeated.

But it's up to him to turn that around. Only he can find happiness in his hockey career, only he can accomplish what he's paid to do and said he can do. Time to prove all of your hecklers wrong. he can turn it all around over the next 16W, let's see what the results are.

I thought he played well. His center was White who has a total of 1 NHL game. Mac really helped his game and he scored. I think the MoToR line will be dangerous because Turris and Mac have instant chemistry and Ryan can feed off of that.

Ryan has been unluckly lately, he has played well after coming back from injury and has just gotten injured again. People need to stop thinking of the $7M and honestly ask themselves is he better than Stalberg/Wingels/etc.... because essentially he is and I'd rather him in the lineup than them.

Mac-Turr-Ryan
Burrows/Smith-Brass-Stone
Hoff-Pag-Pyatt
Burrows/Stalberg-Smith-Dzingel

Dzingel because every single line he's on generates offence. He cant finish but literally EVERY single line he plays on has offensive chances. You cant take that guy out, he's the guy.

 

[Beville]

25 points to finish the season?

Yay for Bobby.

 

[Tuna99]

I thought he played well. His center was White who has a total of 1 NHL game. Mac really helped his game and he scored. I think the MoToR line will be dangerous because Turris and Mac have instant chemistry and Ryan can feed off of that.

Ryan has been unluckly lately, he has played well after coming back from injury and has just gotten injured again. People need to stop thinking of the $7M and honestly ask themselves is he better than Stalberg/Wingels/etc.... because essentially he is and I'd rather him in the lineup than them.

Mac-Turr-Ryan
Burrows/Smith-Brass-Stone
Hoff-Pag-Pyatt
Burrows/Stalberg-Smith-Dzingel

Dzingel because every single line he's on generates offence. He cant finish but literally EVERY single line he plays on has offensive chances. You cant take that guy out, he's the guy.

If Ryan was making $1 million would he be in the lineup? I doubt it.

 

[Sensinitis]

If Ryan was making $1 million would he be in the lineup? I doubt it.

What?

 

[Larionov]

As I've said before, count me in the camp who thinks that Bobby Ryan gets a lot of unwarranted grief. He and Ceci have become this fan base's new whipping boys now that Spezza and Cowen have left town.

There's no question that Bobby has struggled this season, and his conditioning likely isn't what it should be. As others have said, though, his confidence, or lack of it, is also an issue. Bobby is a different cat, and his difficult upbringing may have something to do with it. Most pro athletes are confident bordering on cocky - that's their default setting. Bobby seems to be 180 degrees the other way, though, with very little self confidence. I appreciate his honesty and self-deprecating sense of humor, but part of me would like to see him with some more swagger. Maybe Karlsson and Phaneuf can spare some of theirs. ;-)

 

[Tuna99]

As I've said before, count me in the camp who thinks that Bobby Ryan gets a lot of unwarranted grief. He and Ceci have become this fan base's new whipping boys now that Spezza and Cowen have left town.

There's no question that Bobby has struggled this season, and his conditioning likely isn't what it should be. As others have said, though, his confidence, or lack of it, is also an issue. Bobby is a different cat, and his difficult upbringing may have something to do with it. Most pro athletes are confident bordering on cocky - that's their default setting. Bobby seems to be 180 degrees the other way, though, with very little self confidence. I appreciate his honesty and self-deprecating sense of humor, but part of me would like to see him with some more swagger. Maybe Karlsson and Phaneuf can spare some of theirs. ;-)

I think Swagger comes from being prepared and knowing you've done the work. So if he lacks confidence, it comes from the doubts he has about his own preparation and not what side his Center is passing him the puck on.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I think Swagger comes from being prepared and knowing you've done the work. So if he lacks confidence, it comes from the doubts he has about his own preparation and not what side his Center is passing him the puck on.

Self-confidence is nowhere near that black-and-white.

 

[Zorf]

Ryan with a huge chance to set the dialogue of his career onto a new path with these playoffs. I don't think it happens just because it never happens with Ryan - but for years he's had so many opportunities to re-write his story here in Ottawa, and nothing bigger then this.

But his post game where he's saying he was unsure of his finger, and MacCarthur being back will help his game, - it just seems there's always a built in reason for Ryan being the way he is, but the real reason is he's not a fully dedicated athlete. The doubt doesn't come from his hurt finger, it comes from years of 50% summers and 50% backchecking, I think he has doubt now about what he can actually do in an NHL game, he's golden in a skills competition, but in an NHL hockey game he looks like he has no confidence.

Just from the visuals yesterday, Ryan looks like hes aged about 5 years this year. He looks pasty, he looks tired, he looks sad. Team has talked about things happening away from the rink we don't know about, and my guess is it has to do with Ryan based on the fact it looks like he hasn't been outside for 5 years. Could be anything, but the guy looks broken, he's never looked so unconfident, he looks defeated.

But it's up to him to turn that around. Only he can find happiness in his hockey career, only he can accomplish what he's paid to do and said he can do. Time to prove all of your hecklers wrong. he can turn it all around over the next 16W, let's see what the results are.

I don't know how old you are, or if you have kids, but Bobby and his wife welcomed a daughter into their family just before the season started.

I would wager that there's a good chance he's not getting much sleep at home. That's just how it is. What I tell people when they have kids is, "You'll get used to it."

Now, I'm a gov't worker who really only needs enough energy to stay awake during meetings. It would be a much different story if I was a professional athlete getting 4.5 hrs of sleep a night.

Now toss in that he also lost his mother right before the season started. I am extremely fortunate that both of my parents are still with me, but speaking with my mother-in-law about when her mother passed away, she said "You just feel numb for a year." Maybe Bobby's grieving process is similar to that of my mother-in-law? We all grieve differently. If he needs more time to get over the devastation of losing his mother, then so be it.


I'm giving Bobby a pass for this season. His life went upside down and zig zaggy all at the same time. And he got a bunch of injuries to boot. That's a lot for a person to handle.



That being said. If he's not playing better than one of the guys who are scratched, then I would like to see him be treated just like any other player who is struggling, and not get preferential treatment because of his name, salary and scoring expectations.

 

[Tuna99]

Self-confidence is nowhere near that black-and-white.

Maybe the coach doesn't like him, maybe the fans are bugging him, maybe it's something else, but mental toughness comes when you know you are 100% ready for what's in front of you, it can't come from a pep speech from your buddies. He has an elite skill set, he hasn't built the engine around it to make sure it can run properly in the NHL and I think everyone knows that now including him - that's what I'm talking about.

 

[SanderSen]

This is a huge playoffs for Ryan. He has the chance to have an impact and be a leader to win against a beatable Bruins team. That is the Ryan I hope and want to see, I just don't know if he can do it.

 

[BrawlFan]

I don't know how old you are, or if you have kids, but Bobby and his wife welcomed a daughter into their family just before the season started.

I would wager that there's a good chance he's not getting much sleep at home. That's just how it is. What I tell people when they have kids is, "You'll get used to it."

Now, I'm a gov't worker who really only needs enough energy to stay awake during meetings. It would be a much different story if I was a professional athlete getting 4.5 hrs of sleep a night.

Now toss in that he also lost his mother right before the season started. I am extremely fortunate that both of my parents are still with me, but speaking with my mother-in-law about when her mother passed away, she said "You just feel numb for a year." Maybe Bobby's grieving process is similar to that of my mother-in-law? We all grieve differently. If he needs more time to get over the devastation of losing his mother, then so be it.


I'm giving Bobby a pass for this season. His life went upside down and zig zaggy all at the same time. And he got a bunch of injuries to boot. That's a lot for a person to handle.



That being said. If he's not playing better than one of the guys who are scratched, then I would like to see him be treated just like any other player who is struggling, and not get preferential treatment because of his name, salary and scoring expectations.

Based on his personal story you know that his mom and him were super close. His upbringing and its challenges def would bring those two together much more. I've lost a parent, I would say its closer to 2 years than 1 of just not feeling engaged in things or not feeling they are important when you really see what is, family.

He's got a pass from me too. Saying that he definitely isn't our 13th best forward. He had a good game and scored, if that doesn't win you over with him vs Stalberg then nothing will.

 

[Stylizer1]

The baby excuses are a little extreme. The guy spends half the season on the road.

 

[pm88]

I don't know how old you are, or if you have kids, but Bobby and his wife welcomed a daughter into their family just before the season started.

I would wager that there's a good chance he's not getting much sleep at home. That's just how it is. What I tell people when they have kids is, "You'll get used to it."

Now, I'm a gov't worker who really only needs enough energy to stay awake during meetings. It would be a much different story if I was a professional athlete getting 4.5 hrs of sleep a night.

Now toss in that he also lost his mother right before the season started. I am extremely fortunate that both of my parents are still with me, but speaking with my mother-in-law about when her mother passed away, she said "You just feel numb for a year." Maybe Bobby's grieving process is similar to that of my mother-in-law? We all grieve differently. If he needs more time to get over the devastation of losing his mother, then so be it.


I'm giving Bobby a pass for this season. His life went upside down and zig zaggy all at the same time. And he got a bunch of injuries to boot. That's a lot for a person to handle.



That being said. If he's not playing better than one of the guys who are scratched, then I would like to see him be treated just like any other player who is struggling, and not get preferential treatment because of his name, salary and scoring expectations.

You make some good points, however if he's still struggling this badly a season, or even two from now, I think it's time to move on from him. Let him get a fresh start somewhere else. With that being said, he definitely has a chance to erase this season with a productive playoffs. If he does, nobody will care how his regular season went