News Article: Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

[CaptainBenn]

Nice to hear Torts stand up today and defend the Sedin's to the people who call them soft all the time. If MT was the Canucks coach he would've agreed and also called them soff..

He would say "my opinion doesnt matter" its his favorite line when talking about PK

 

[DAChampion]

Eller and Diaz got pretty low/unimpressive contracts.
Max Pacioretty is a pretty good deal as well. Dunno how many times this needs to be brought up. And don't give me "Max took a pay cut". Circular argument.

Are you seriously comparing the Subban contract to the Diaz contract?

 

[Frankenheimer]

What makes a speculation serious? The evidence supporting it or the seriousness of the allegation. Bergevin doesn't need to address every baseless speculation out there.

I guess if I was GM/Coach and someone reported that my star player was being potentially excluded from Team Canada, I would be out there praising him.

Also, I don't think you need a smoking gun in this kind of situation to address it (being singled out because of race). As Wilde says, it's hinted at in the terminology that's used to describe him, usually disparagingly. It is, after all, a predominantly white sport, so some sensitivity is merited when a discrepancy in treatment arises.

Unless, of course, we all want PK to walk at the end of his contract, then lets all just bury our heads in the sand and pretend race isn't a potential factor in the way he's treated.

 

[Banjo Cat]

Are you seriously comparing the Subban contract to the Diaz contract?

Subban was a young player when Bergevin took over the reigns. He was an RFA. Subban undoubtedly had a lot of raw talent, but I think Bergevin can be forgiven for not anticipating him winning the Norris last year. I bet you a lot of GMs would have tried playing hard ball with him at that point. Emelin is a UFA.

I think at that point in time, Bergevin saw it as playing safe and not giving a kid the world. I think at that point in time a fair number of hockey fans agreed, though they were ultimately wrong.

Do you think if Bergevin knew what Subban would do last season he would have tried low-balling him with a short term contract? He would have locked him up for the longer term.

 

[Banjo Cat]

Unless, of course, we all want PK to walk at the end of his contract, then lets all just bury our heads in the sand and pretend race isn't a potential factor in the way he's treated.

I am not pretending anything. I do not know what causes him to be treated the way he is in any given situation. Some people undoubtebly dislike him because they are racist. But I can't say which cases of mistreatment are due to racism. In the absence of evidence, I am not going to treat every case as if it is racism.

 

[Hoople]

I believe he is being misused on the ice. I'm not sure why. There are articles being published speculating. Serious speculations. The team does need to address them.

Just for some sense of rational thinking.......

If those same writers of those articles with speculation at its core were to turn it around and blame Subban, what would your opinion be about such "speculation"?

Paranoia rules!!!!!

 

[Kriss E]

You honestly believe PK is being mistreated? And next, you believe he's being mistreated because he's black?

This stuff is allowed to get posted around here?

Not that I think that's the reason but what's left to think? What choice do people have when they see Douglas freaking Murray, in his 2nd game back, get used in the dying minutes over PK Subban? That's not my reason, every coach has favorites and others not so much liked, I think he falls into that category.

 

[Kriss E]

That's a load of bull. Since fans are delusional, management has to address something that doesn't exist?

Didn't the freaking owner of the team come out two seasons ago to apologize to fans because he let an english interim coach take over the team??
That's not BS, it's reality buddy, time for you to realize it.

 

[Banjo Cat]

If those same writers of those articles with speculation at its core were to turn it around and blame Subban, what would your opinion be about such "speculation"?

This is a really strong point. This speculation is no different than when some folks in the media blow up little things Subban does to make him into a bad guy. It just happens to be pointed in a different direction.

 

[Banjo Cat]

Didn't the freaking owner of the team come out two seasons ago to apologize to fans because he let an english interim coach take over the team??

Well, to be fair that situation had sort of escalated. There were protests and politicians talking about it. Though they were not large protests, it certainly warrants more attention than an speculative column. The owner of the team has to address a segment of pissed off fans. He doesn't have to address an article.

 

[rockjngo]

Anyway, the article makes a lot of sense. I really dislike Bergevin and Therrien for the lack of respect they've shown Subban, and I'm 95% sure it's racism from these two who like to lecture the rest of the world on "character". Ultimately the one thing Subban has going for him is that he really loves the game, and Therrien and Bergevin did everything they could to take that away.

Subban is the one player, the only player, the singular player, that Bergevin has singled out to not get a good contract. Every single other player has been paid respectfully. Every single other player has been paid respectfully and even overpaid. It's disgusting.


Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/the-curious-case-of-p-k-subban-1.1524316#ixzz2jQsOHPXk

Brilliant point.

you call yourself a mod when you have no clue what bergervin and therrien are talking about. character means "the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual." To simplify this, it means you have to have respect for the game and for the players must take responsibility for their actions. Bergervin and Therrien is telling Subban to stay quiet, this is hockey. I remember early in his career Subban and Lapierre was mouthing off and that's not the Montreal Canadiens. Ribeiro did his fake injury crap and that's not the Montreal Canadiens. You win as a team and not as individual, Subban was playing as an individual and running around not playing defensive game. Therrien has slowly fixed that and now Subban is a Norris Winner.

 

[CaptainBenn]

you call yourself a mod when you have no clue what bergervin and therrien are talking about. character means "the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual." To simplify this, it means you have to have respect for the game and for the players must take responsibility for their actions. Bergervin and Therrien is telling Subban to stay quiet, this is hockey. I remember early in his career Subban and Lapierre was mouthing off and that's not the Montreal Canadiens. Ribeiro did his fake injury crap and that's not the Montreal Canadiens. You win as a team and not as individual, Subban was playing as an individual and running around not playing defensive game. Therrien has slowly fixed that and now Subban is a Norris Winner.

Lol please tell me how Therrien fixed Subban's defensive game?

 

[Banjo Cat]

Bergervin and Therrien is telling Subban to stay quiet, this is hockey. .

This is nothing new in hockey, either. And it's not a black/white issue. Back in 2007, I remember hearing that Souray told Crosby during a game that if he wants to be a superstar in this game he better start acting like one.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

Didn't the freaking owner of the team come out two seasons ago to apologize to fans because he let an english interim coach take over the team??
That's not BS, it's reality buddy, time for you to realize it.

That's an example of an actual issue, buddy.

Management being racist towards PK Subban is not a real issue, buddy.

 

[DAChampion]

you call yourself a mod

 

[TheGoalJudge]

Not that I think that's the reason but what's left to think? What choice do people have when they see Douglas freaking Murray, in his 2nd game back, get used in the dying minutes over PK Subban? That's not my reason, every coach has favorites and others not so much liked, I think he falls into that category.

So not playing the last 2 minutes is classified as mistreatment? Am I in real life right now?

Can I ask you why Subban leads NHL D-men in PP time per game? If Therrien hated him so much, why would he put him in such an advantageous position game in and game out?

 

[habsfanatics*]

Do you realize that by trying to "give him respect", fans like you and the media are driving a wedge between himself and the organization by insinuating that the organization is not giving him respect?

Yes, us posting on a forum is driving a wedge. Here's a straw, grasp at it. Brian Wilde is right, and he's going to write his piece whether we post here or not.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I am not pretending anything. I do not know what causes him to be treated the way he is in any given situation. Some people undoubtebly dislike him because they are racist. But I can't say which cases of mistreatment are due to racism. In the absence of evidence, I am not going to treat every case as if it is racism.

Correct. And that is a good reason to be proactive about it. The burden of proof is much lower given the context (of being the only black player on the team). Wilde's evidence is speculative, and none of it by itself is conclusive, but taken together, there's something there, something worth addressing before it snowballs, if the goal is keeping PK (and not just doing the right thing in some ethical sense).

The fact Wilde and Bird are raising the questions at all is indicative of something. I don't think it's something you throw out there lightly.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

This board is ****ing nuts. Montreal fans are the absolute dumbest people on earth.

 

[Banjo Cat]

The fact Wilde and Bird are raising the questions at all is indicative of something. I don't think it's something you throw out there lightly.

So, anytime someone raises speculative questions, they should be addressed. If the Habs had to deal this way with the media, they would have no time to do anything else?

And how does the fact that they raise the question make it indicative of something?

 

[Kriss E]

So not playing the last 2 minutes is classified as mistreatment? Am I in real life right now?

Can I ask you why Subban leads NHL D-men in PP time per game? If Therrien hated him so much, why would he put him in such an advantageous position game in and game out?

Don't ask me to find logic out of an illogical situation.

And no, it's not just not playing for the last 2 minutes. It's putting him on the bench while placing one of the slowest player in the game, a #7 D instead of him. It's about having guys like Diaz or Bouillon in front of him on the PK. It's about singling him out and criticizing him in the media while others are far worse. It about how he reacts to a simple answer from PK. It's a multitude of things. But if you're going to look at all of this, shrugg your shoulders and say ''he's mistreated because he ain't playing the last 2 minutes?'' then I'll know that I'm wasting my time here..

 

[DAChampion]

This board is ****ing nuts. Montreal fans are the absolute dumbest people on earth.

You are in desperate need of a high school level sociology class or equivalent. You are oblivious to racism.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I lived in Calgary when Phaneuf came in as a rookie projected to be a mutated version of Scott Stevens & Ray Bourque and they were pre-engraving the next 15 Norris Trophies with his name on it

Then?

After the entire city and management inflated his ego so much and the team gave him the big pay day he couldn't skate cause his head was swelled so big it threw him off balance and he spent more time reading his press clippings and watching his highlight vids he could no longer be coached, became a total dick and sideshow around town once the pressure of failing to deliver on his big contract hit he ended up leaving for some spare parts - he's rebounded somewhat but has never reached his potential

'Insert PK is better than Phaneuf' comment here - but I guarantee you he wasn't first couple of years in the league, 49/50/60 pts first 3 years and one of the best hitters in the game

What MT & MB are doing isn't disrespectful it's called proper development

Everyone says MB screwed up by doing the bridge deal, did he?

He kept the pressure off PK of having to live up to the demands a Doughty like deal would bring in a city like Montreal, kept him grounded, kept him hungry and motivated to prove people wrong

We'll see this offseason if there really is a PK conspiracy, if they don't offer him at least a 6 year deal for $6MM people can play the hate card, until then can we not try and create something from nothing?

 

[TheGoalJudge]

You are in desperate need of a high school level sociology class or equivalent. You are oblivious to racism.

People on this board are calling our management racist and this thread remains open.

LOL.

 

[Banjo Cat]

You are in desperate need of a high school level sociology class or equivalent. You are oblivious to racism.

He is not oblivious to racism. No one is denying racism exists. They are just not calling every given case an example of it.