New York Islanders: Bo Horvat Extended 8x8.5 AAV

[MJF]

I don't disagree that the smart move may be to move on from Lou, but it's starting to look like that's not happening. So, sticking with your list of players, I'd add Dobson and Romanov to that list first of all. In 24-25 Nelson and Palmieri will be in the last season of their contract. JGP and Lee will have 1 more remaining. Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin should be gone, and maybe some of the 4 aforementioned vets near the end of their contracts can be moved.

IDK, find a workaround. Don't throw away an asset like Sorokin. Look at the Devs (and EDM and TOR, etc.). Talented teams with superstar #1 picks via the rebuild route and they lack a good goalie. The Devs started a rebuild in 2015, and 8 years later they need a goalie and have $13.5M per year committed to 2 defenseman for years to come and they both just had crappy playoffs (NJ fans referring to Hamilton's contract as an "anchor"). So guess what - they're going to have to figure something out. Every team has issues they need to work around. And I haven't even mentioned the NYR!

The 3 finalists for the Vezina Trophy and Shesterkin all lost in the first round. Some stiff of a goalie is going to win the Stanley Cup for the 2nd year in a row. The game has changed. We don’t have the framework to compete for the Cup anymore. You need speed and skill and we’re locked in to the wrong players.

 

[doublechili]

The 3 finalists for the Vezina Trophy and Shesterkin all lost in the first round. Some stiff of a goalie is going to win the Stanley Cup for the 2nd year in a row. The game has changed. We don’t have the framework to compete for the Cup anymore. You need speed and skill and we’re locked in to the wrong players.

Yet EDM has tons of speed and skill and a stiff goalie and they just lost. And "locked in"? If they can't be moved out sooner, Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin are entering their final year. Then Nelson and Palmieri the next year. Then Lee and JGP the year after that.

 

[JPIsles18]

I don't disagree that the smart move may be to move on from Lou, but it's starting to look like that's not happening. So, sticking with your list of players, I'd add Dobson and Romanov to that list first of all. In 24-25 Nelson and Palmieri will be in the last season of their contract. JGP and Lee will have 1 more remaining. Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin should be gone, and maybe some of the 4 aforementioned vets near the end of their contracts can be moved.

IDK, find a workaround. Don't throw away an asset like Sorokin. Look at the Devs (and EDM and TOR, etc.). Talented teams with superstar #1 picks via the rebuild route and they lack a good goalie. The Devs started a rebuild in 2015, and 8 years later they need a goalie and have $13.5M per year committed to 2 defenseman for years to come and they both just had crappy playoffs (NJ fans referring to Hamilton's contract as an "anchor"). So guess what - they're going to have to figure something out. Every team has issues they need to work around. And I haven't even mentioned the NYR!

This is more of a thought exercise than anything to be honest. I think Sorokin is an asset at 4 mil. I don't know how much of an asset he is at 9 x 8 or whatever he'll get. Price and Bob were once elite goalies. Save for Bob's recent explosion, that has been an albatross of a contract that the Panthers had to get creative to build around.

My main issues with Lou is that he was unable to capitalize having a cheap Sorokin. Things are going to get exponentially more difficult once he's expensive. There is a simple, but not easy work-around. That is to cut bait with players like Bailey, JGP, and bring in players that we have very clearly needed: A top 6 scorer and a PP QB top 4 dman. Another thing the Isles can do is hit big in the Draft. Heiskanen, Oettinger, and Robertson for Dallas in 2017 was Franchise altering. However, the team has largely de-emphasized the draft with no true difference makers on the horizon.

This offseason is huge. one more year of a cheap Sorokin. Lou can decided to be honest about the roster or he can continue to lie to himself and pretend they're good. There are some nice pieces for sure on the team. But this is not a championship roster. So my thoughts are if the complacent Lou decides to run it back again, we cannot keep doing this fringe playoff thing again. Might as well trade the whale and get some much needed young talent back. You know that the Isles will find acceptable goaltending somewhere. May not be elite, but we couldn't even capitalize on elite goaltending because we can't score. Might as well give Sorokin to a team that can better use his services instead of wasting them.

 

[MJF]

So my thoughts are if the complacent Lou decides to run it back again, we cannot keep doing this fringe playoff thing again.

Why not? Most teams don't win the Stanley Cup anyway.

 

[JohnTonelliRises]

This is more of a thought exercise than anything to be honest. I think Sorokin is an asset at 4 mil. I don't know how much of an asset he is at 9 x 8 or whatever he'll get. Price and Bob were once elite goalies. Save for Bob's recent explosion, that has been an albatross of a contract that the Panthers had to get creative to build around.

My main issues with Lou is that he was unable to capitalize having a cheap Sorokin. Things are going to get exponentially more difficult once he's expensive. There is a simple, but not easy work-around. That is to cut bait with players like Bailey, JGP, and bring in players that we have very clearly needed: A top 6 scorer and a PP QB top 4 dman. Another thing the Isles can do is hit big in the Draft. Heiskanen, Oettinger, and Robertson for Dallas in 2017 was Franchise altering. However, the team has largely de-emphasized the draft with no true difference makers on the horizon.

This offseason is huge. one more year of a cheap Sorokin. Lou can decided to be honest about the roster or he can continue to lie to himself and pretend they're good. There are some nice pieces for sure on the team. But this is not a championship roster. So my thoughts are if the complacent Lou decides to run it back again, we cannot keep doing this fringe playoff thing again. Might as well trade the whale and get some much needed young talent back. You know that the Isles will find acceptable goaltending somewhere. May not be elite, but we couldn't even capitalize on elite goaltending because we can't score. Might as well give Sorokin to a team that can better use his services instead of wasting them.

Or you can build around Sorokin and re-evaluate the rest of the team.

If Lou drops Sorokin, I don't think there are many reasons left to get excited about this team.

 

[MJF]

Or you can build around Sorokin and re-evaluate the rest of the team.

If Lou drops Sorokin, I don't think there are many reasons left to get excited about this team.

It wouldn’t be a drop, it would be a trade of Sorokin. And don’t you think the return to the Isles could solve a multitude of our problems in one move?

 

[JohnTonelliRises]

It wouldn’t be a drop, it would be a trade of Sorokin. And don’t you think the return to the Isles could solve a multitude of our problems in one move?

It depends if the return pan out or want to stay with the Islanders. This team already has a historical penchant for trading away generational talent while receiving the short end of the stick.

That's why I'm skeptical of trading Sorokin away.

 

[doublechili]

This is more of a thought exercise than anything to be honest. I think Sorokin is an asset at 4 mil. I don't know how much of an asset he is at 9 x 8 or whatever he'll get. Price and Bob were once elite goalies. Save for Bob's recent explosion, that has been an albatross of a contract that the Panthers had to get creative to build around.

My main issues with Lou is that he was unable to capitalize having a cheap Sorokin. Things are going to get exponentially more difficult once he's expensive. There is a simple, but not easy work-around. That is to cut bait with players like Bailey, JGP, and bring in players that we have very clearly needed: A top 6 scorer and a PP QB top 4 dman. Another thing the Isles can do is hit big in the Draft. Heiskanen, Oettinger, and Robertson for Dallas in 2017 was Franchise altering. However, the team has largely de-emphasized the draft with no true difference makers on the horizon.

This offseason is huge. one more year of a cheap Sorokin. Lou can decided to be honest about the roster or he can continue to lie to himself and pretend they're good. There are some nice pieces for sure on the team. But this is not a championship roster. So my thoughts are if the complacent Lou decides to run it back again, we cannot keep doing this fringe playoff thing again. Might as well trade the whale and get some much needed young talent back. You know that the Isles will find acceptable goaltending somewhere. May not be elite, but we couldn't even capitalize on elite goaltending because we can't score. Might as well give Sorokin to a team that can better use his services instead of wasting them.

I agree on a lot of what you're saying. I would point out that there are only 3 goalies in the league with salaries above $6.5M (Price, Bob and Vasi), and they were all signed pre-Covid. Shesterkin has 2 more years at under $6M. So, Sorokin's extended salary could (hopefully) be less than you think. Extend Sorokin. Move out some older/slower guys to the extent possible, or worst case let them leave via expired contracts. Get a legit PP point man. Improve the speed on the wings.

 

[Isles72]

The 3 finalists for the Vezina Trophy and Shesterkin all lost in the first round. Some stiff of a goalie is going to win the Stanley Cup for the 2nd year in a row. The game has changed. We don’t have the framework to compete for the Cup anymore. You need speed and skill and we’re locked in to the wrong players.

Vegas is the only team left on goalie fumes . Oettinger is a stud , Raanta/Andersen/Kochetkov (if need be) combo is more than sufficient , Bob is dialed in

 

[JPIsles18]

I agree on a lot of what you're saying. I would point out that there are only 3 goalies in the league with salaries above $6.5M (Price, Bob and Vasi), and they were all signed pre-Covid. Shesterkin has 2 more years at under $6M. So, Sorokin's extended salary could (hopefully) be less than you think. Extend Sorokin. Move out some older/slower guys to the extent possible, or worst case let them leave via expired contracts. Get a legit PP point man. Improve the speed on the wings.

I hope you are right.

The players I believe have trade value are JGP and Palmieri. I believe attempts should be made to move both. Lee/Horvat are obviously not going anywhere. While I am not the biggest Lou fan, he's been OK. There are teams with worse GMs and worse results.

He just doesn't like moving out guys that do not make sense on the roster. Especially if he's the one who brings them in. I would love to see him do something creative on a smaller scale. Like Engvall, who I would like to see re-signed.

UFA stinks this offseason and it reeks of a bunch of players Lou likes to overpay. Here is who I would like to target in UFA if we can move out Palms/JGP:

Michael Bunting (5.5 cap) - Believe this would allow Horvat to be a 2nd line center while giving Barzal a competent wing. Bunting was quite good playing with better players.

Damon Severson (4.5 cap) - I know he's different from Mayfield, but I believe he'll help the PP and allow Dobson some more sheltered minutes. He's not perfect, but again, it's a bad market.

Erik Gustaffson (4 cap) - He was really good this season and seems undervalued by teams. Could help on PP.

Aside from these 3 there aren't many good values from the available names.

 

[Play]

A lot of people are going to be proven wrong here.

He’s going to be the teams MVP this year.

That’s his best thing, off seasons. A bounce back is a sure bet in my eyes.