Blues Trade Proposals 2020-21 - Part II

[Stupendous Yappi]

There's a lot of wishful interpretation of the public statements from both sides. It doesn't look that ambiguous to me.

Vlad requested a trade. His reasons can be speculated a bit, and there's been spin helpfully promulgated by JR, but its been painted as a significant breach of confidence. Armstrong tried to trade him, but didn't get any offers that were reasonable value (or didn't expect him to withhold). Tarasenko appears to understand the situation, and that his fastest way to be traded is to show he is both healthy and productive. No other path helps him in that goal.

So, Armstrong is being professional about the situation. Blues teammates are being professional. Vlad is being professional, by showing that he's not going to create added drama and will be a good citizen. He's going to show up and work hard.

But keep in mind that with Sundqvist there is a pending cap crisis. Trading Tarasenko isn't the only way to address that, obviously, but it also tells us that Armstrong isn't expecting this current roster to stay intact all year. I think a mid-year trade is most likely, if a team makes an acceptable offer. Maybe some GMs will start to feel Tarasenko is less of a gamble and willing to acquire him for a fair price.

Its possible Tarasenko recants his trade request, but I think if that happened we'd know it unequivocally. No one has said anything that could be reasonably interpreted that way.

 

[abel17]

Now that Vlad has started camp, if he plays well enough DA can get the return he wants, why would we trade him? If he's on a 30 goal pace, that would be exactly what this team needs.

Still think his cap space goes to Tkachuk eventually - whether that's after this season or the next one.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

a Sanford for Brown trade (if that's what's really happening) fixes the cap issue

 

[Majorityof1]

Now that Vlad has started camp, if he plays well enough DA can get the return he wants, why would we trade him? If he's on a 30 goal pace, that would be exactly what this team needs.

Still think his cap space goes to Tkachuk eventually - whether that's after this season or the next one.

He's willing to play ball now to prove himself. He is a proud player and Seattle just picked Dunn over him in the expansion draft. But if he proves himself and still wants to be traded, he could really become a locker room issue if we don't move him. Army has a policy of moving players who ask for a reason. You don't want that festering if you can help it. If Tarasenko is sitting at 25 goals at the TDL and isn't moved, I don't see him continuing to play well. That's the point he should go out and give the Dubois-esque lazy shifts.

 

[Majorityof1]

a Sanford for Brown trade (if that's what's really happening) fixes the cap issue

Its happened. Confirmed by tweet.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Its happened. Confirmed by tweet.

yup.. I didn't go to the trade page (like I usually do) before coming to the Blues section

glad to turn the page on the Sanford era

 

[Brockon]

The bolded is the operative consideration and which seems to have been lost a little bit in the conversation.

We can operate from the premise that DA would rather never trade away Tarasenko. However, if Vladi still wants out AND there's a market, then DA shifts toward possibly granting that request.

I agree with whomever wrote 20-game sample. Let's see where we're at and whether he wants to stick around or not.

A 20 game sample size was somewhat arbitrary on my end. 15+ seems like a bare minimum - given that Vlad played 10 games in 2019-20 and then 24 in 2020-21, there's going to be a degree of rust and questions about his shoulder's durability until 20+ games played.

A 10 game sample doesn't really give enough basis to show health and consistency - my guess, again IF Vladi still wants out once he's out there with the boys is we see him go somewhere in the 20-36 games played area.

20 games is late November. 36 games played is the winter classic on Jan 1st. The expected TDL is somewhere after the Olympic break in February. The firm date hasn't been announced, but what I'm seeing noted is historically, the TDL is about 40 days before the end of the season, which suggests around March 20, 2022 this season with our last scheduled game being April 29th.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

A 20 game sample size was somewhat arbitrary on my end. 15+ seems like a bare minimum - given that Vlad played 10 games in 2019-20 and then 24 in 2020-21, there's going to be a degree of rust and questions about his shoulder's durability until 20+ games played.

A 10 game sample doesn't really give enough basis to show health and consistency - my guess, again IF Vladi still wants out once he's out there with the boys is we see him go somewhere in the 20-36 games played area.

20 games is late November. 36 games played is the winter classic on Jan 1st. The expected TDL is somewhere after the Olympic break in February. The firm date hasn't been announced, but what I'm seeing noted is historically, the TDL is about 40 days before the end of the season, which suggests around March 20, 2022 this season with our last scheduled game being April 29th.

yeah... kinda hard to say. could be anywhere between 30-ish games to next offseason

like others have said tho, I don't see him finishing his contract, or career, in STL.. which is a shame

 

[Blueston]

yeah... kinda hard to say. could be anywhere between 30-ish games to next offseason

like others have said tho, I don't see him finishing his contract, or career, in STL.. which is a shame

I'm still not convinced he finishes training camp in STL.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

I'm still not convinced he finishes training camp in STL.

and this is an option as well..

the issue I see is everyone has fairly full rosters already, so a trade partner will be harder to find than it was in the offseason, BUT, it would give other teams a chance to see how he fairs in preseason games. I just think other teams will wanna see him play at least a handful of games before making an offer for him

who knows.. but at least Army has the leverage that he doesn't HAVE to make a trade due to the cap.

 

[Blueston]

and this is an option as well..

the issue I see is everyone has fairly full rosters already, so a trade partner will be harder to find than it was in the offseason, BUT, it would give other teams a chance to see how he fairs in preseason games. I just think other teams will wanna see him play at least a handful of games before making an offer for him

who knows.. but at least Army has the leverage that he doesn't HAVE to make a trade due to the cap.

I think an underrated part of Sanford trade is that we can now deal Tank for someone we like (Zucker?) and retain salary to make it cap neutral for the other team. Opens up more possibilities with many teams so tight to cap since we now don't need to find cap savings.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

I think an underrated part of Sanford trade is that we can now deal Tank for someone we like (Zucker?) and retain salary to make it cap neutral for the other team. Opens up more possibilities with many teams so tight to cap since we now don't need to find cap savings.

ya really like Zucker tho? and wouldn't we want a RW instead of another LW? unless you're thinking that Schenn slides over there eventually

 

[Blueston]

ya really like Zucker tho? and wouldn't we want a RW instead of another LW? unless you're thinking that Schenn slides over there eventually

Not saying that I love Zucker, just that he is type of guy we could add. And I like that Zucker is signed for 2 more years. I like that while last season was rough one for him he has consistently produced. I think he would be nice complement to Thomas on the 3rd line.

I think RW/LW is overrated. We do a lot of cycling where guys aren't just their assigned side. If you can play and are able to fit into how we play, I'm not as concerned with handedness.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Not saying that I love Zucker, just that he is type of guy we could add. And I like that Zucker is signed for 2 more years. I like that while last season was rough one for him he has consistently produced. I think he would be nice complement to Thomas on the 3rd line.

I think RW/LW is overrated. We do a lot of cycling where guys aren't just their assigned side. If you can play and are able to fit into how we play, I'm not as concerned with handedness.

dunno if Zucker just doesn't mesh in PITT ( I think that's where he's at now) or he's declining. I'd prefer a good AHL youngster winger or LD, but we'll see. wonder if the Isles or CAR get back into the picture

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d rather see Tarasenko stay and score 35g these next 2 years.

 

[Xerloris]

I’d rather see Tarasenko stay and score 35g PER these next 2 years.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Mike Liut]

Fixed that for you.

I thought that was a given

 

[simon IC]

ya really like Zucker tho? and wouldn't we want a RW instead of another LW? unless you're thinking that Schenn slides over there eventually

Really? Even without Tarasenko, we have Kyrou and Perron as natural RW's, and both Buchnevich and Kostin have always played on the right side. I would say we need another LW, not RW.

 

[Brockon]

ya really like Zucker tho? and wouldn't we want a RW instead of another LW? unless you're thinking that Schenn slides over there eventually

I'm really interested to see who ends up playing LW for us this season across our top 9.

Tarasenko, Perron, Buchnevich, Kyrou, Thomas, Bozak and Kostin all play best as C/RW.

Saad and Schenn play their best as C/LW. Schenn has been on record saying he prefers playing C... Meaning we have 2/3 top nine LW and 7/3 RWs.

Ignoring player preferences ,and just sticking with where they play best for wing performance... Neither of Kyrou or Tarasenko deserve to be playing 3rd line RW.

Saad - ROR - Perron
Schenn - Thomas - Buch
X - Bozak - Kyrou
Kostin and Tarasenko need a spot.

Perron plays much more effectively on the RW, do you really displace last year's top scorer from his optimal spot?

That's a pretty big discrepancy - if we see any major injuries to our LWs we're liable to see some awkwardness as wingers transition to their off wing.

This team absolutely does not need another RW. We have 4 legitimate top six RWs.

 

[Ranksu]

You all talk about our offense and do we need add there something?

Our problem lies on d-core not forward group.

I told you so.. long time ago.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Really? Even without Tarasenko, we have Kyrou and Perron as natural RW's, and both Buchnevich and Kostin have always played on the right side. I would say we need another LW, not RW.

you're right.. I typed it backwards lol

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

With the impending D crunch in Seattle, I’d love to see Army go after Soucy or Lauzon.

Lauzon would make more sense cap wise(likely cheaper too), but man, I’d love to see Soucy paired up with Colt.

 

[Blueston]

With the impending D crunch in Seattle, I’d love to see Army go after Soucy or Lauzon.

Lauzon would make more sense cap wise(likely cheaper too), but man, I’d love to see Soucy paired up with Colt.

Soucy is guy I've been eyeing since they took him, but we can't fit him unless we dump Tank.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Soucy is guy I've been eyeing since they took him, but we can't fit him unless we dump Tank.

Ideally, I’d love to pick up Lauzon, and then move Vladi(after he improves value)+Scandella for a legit top 2/4 LHD, and a top 9 F.

We may have to add a pick or two, but Lindholm+Rakell would be an ideal return. Both are rentals, but I would expect Lindholm to get the $6.5 Army special.

Perron-O’Reilly-Kyrou
Schenn-Thomas-Buchnevich
Saad-Bozak-Rakell
Barbashev-Sundqvist-Kostin
Neal, Brown

Lindholm-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Lauzon-Mikkola/Bortz/Perunovich

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

I'm really interested to see who ends up playing LW for us this season across our top 9.

Tarasenko, Perron, Buchnevich, Kyrou, Thomas, Bozak and Kostin all play best as C/RW.

Saad and Schenn play their best as C/LW. Schenn has been on record saying he prefers playing C... Meaning we have 2/3 top nine LW and 7/3 RWs.

Ignoring player preferences ,and just sticking with where they play best for wing performance... Neither of Kyrou or Tarasenko deserve to be playing 3rd line RW.

Saad - ROR - Perron
Schenn - Thomas - Buch
X - Bozak - Kyrou
Kostin and Tarasenko need a spot.

Perron plays much more effectively on the RW, do you really displace last year's top scorer from his optimal spot?

That's a pretty big discrepancy - if we see any major injuries to our LWs we're liable to see some awkwardness as wingers transition to their off wing.

This team absolutely does not need another RW. We have 4 legitimate top six RWs.

my bad.. for some reason I had it in my head Buch played LW in NY