OT: Blues Forum Lounge (Home of All Things OT) - Part XI

[tfriede2]

I'd still like the Cardinals add an outfielder. Pham and Grichuk have both been up and down thru their careers, and they are our 3rd and 4th outfielders. And who else is behind them? Wong, or maybe Peralta in left? Im not sure who is left out there, but I'd like to see them add someone with a little experince. IMO, depth has been a key to the Cardinals success over the past decade. I see it in the infield, I see it in the pitching, but I think we need another guy in the outfield.

Isn't Grichuk viewed as having very high expectations this year? I remember hearing on the radio that he was ranked the 5th or 6th best centerfielder (overall, hitting and defense) coming into next season...maybe that was for the NL, though. He's still a bit of a project, but I think the plan is for him to be the everyday outfielder. But you're right, after him and Pham, it gets a bit thin.

 

[Bye Felicia]

I'd still like the Cardinals add an outfielder. Pham and Grichuk have both been up and down thru their careers, and they are our 3rd and 4th outfielders. And who else is behind them? Wong, or maybe Peralta in left? Im not sure who is left out there, but I'd like to see them add someone with a little experince. IMO, depth has been a key to the Cardinals success over the past decade. I see it in the infield, I see it in the pitching, but I think we need another guy in the outfield.

Jose Martinez is the 5th OF, and yes that is cause for concern due to the fact that Pham is a major injury risk. I think Mo realizes this and the Cards will look to add another depth OF.

 

[David Dennison]

Jose Martinez is the 5th OF, and yes that is cause for concern due to the fact that Pham is a major injury risk. I think Mo realizes this and the Cards will look to add another depth OF.

It's probably gonna have to come via trade, it doesn't look like much is left out there in free agency.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Metallica will be at Busch Stadium on June 4th. That should be exciting.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Metallica will be at Busch Stadium on June 4th. That should be exciting.

And painful on my wallet.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

And painful on my wallet.

Yeah, cheapest ones when they were at STC back in 08 were $80. But some of the far away seats at Busch might be a little cheaper than that.

I'll probably still go.

 

[bluesfan94]

Jose Martinez is the 5th OF, and yes that is cause for concern due to the fact that Pham is a major injury risk. I think Mo realizes this and the Cards will look to add another depth OF.

I think he'll give someone a chance to show something in spring training.

 

[Bye Felicia]

I think he'll give someone a chance to show something in spring training.

Well basically that would mean hoping for something out of Todd Cunningham, who I believe is the only non-roster invitee OF. Admittedly I'd never heard of him before he was invited, but I'm not that optimistic. He's 27 and has been awful in very limited time in the majors. He has never been good in the minors either, save for a stint last year. Maybe that carries over--at least that potential is the reason he's here.

There's nothing to be had outside of Pham and Jose Martinez on the 40-man. Sierra has never played beyond Low-A and he's there just to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. Anthony Garcia is there but he was incredibly bad in AA/AAA last year and probably should have been dropped from the roster.

Beyond that you're looking at prospects. Bader is probably the popular pick, but I'm not high on him and he's really not ready anyway.

 

[bluesfan94]

Well basically that would mean hoping for something out of Todd Cunningham, who I believe is the only non-roster invitee OF. Admittedly I'd never heard of him before he was invited, but I'm not that optimistic. He's 27 and has been awful in very limited time in the majors. He has never been good in the minors either, save for a stint last year. Maybe that carries over--at least that potential is the reason he's here.

There's nothing to be had outside of Pham and Jose Martinez on the 40-man. Sierra has never played beyond Low-A and he's there just to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. Anthony Garcia is there but he was incredibly bad in AA/AAA last year and probably should have been dropped from the roster.

Beyond that you're looking at prospects. Bader is probably the popular pick, but I'm not high on him and he's really not ready anyway.

Not high on Bader? That's kinda surprising. There's also Schafer and I'm sure there'll be non roster invitees. I mean, who would have expected Hazelbaker

 

[KirkOut]

Yeah, cheapest ones when they were at STC back in 08 were $80. But some of the far away seats at Busch might be a little cheaper than that.

I'll probably still go.

I was at that show in 08. Was great except for Fuel and Phil Anselmo

The closest they're coming to me on this tour is Boston and everything about that is going to be super expensive

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

I was at that show in 08. Was great except for Fuel and Phil Anselmo

The closest they're coming to me on this tour is Boston and everything about that is going to be super expensive

Yeah, the Load/Reload/St. Anger stuff is lame live. Luckily they play a ton of old stuff. And Down was kind of meh, but at least The Sword kicked ***.

And yeah...you might have to take a loan out to go to the Boston show

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I was at that show in 08. Was great except for Fuel and Phil Anselmo

The closest they're coming to me on this tour is Boston and everything about that is going to be super expensive

Cheapest tickets here are 70 and those are the 400 level seats. I may or may not be buying tickets in a box with all inclusive for 185.

 

[tfriede2]

I saw Metallica with Godsmack at Scottrade circa 2005. Metallica was...underwhelming.

I'm much more interested in Guns N' Roses at the Dome. Who knows what you're going to get with that, but now it's a once in a lifetime opportunity (for those of us who were too young in the late 80's and early 90's to go to their shows).

 

[Bye Felicia]

Not high on Bader? That's kinda surprising. There's also Schafer and I'm sure there'll be non roster invitees. I mean, who would have expected Hazelbaker

I just can't get all that excited about a guy whose profile looks like a lesser Randal Grichuk.

If Schafer sticks I'd think it would be much more likely as a reliever. But man would it be a great story if somehow he could make it as an OF.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I just can't get all that excited about a guy whose profile looks like a lesser Randal Grichuk.

If Schafer sticks I'd think it would be much more likely as a reliever. But man would it be a great story if somehow he could make it as an OF.

Bader gets on pace at a higher pace because he makes contact more, he's that much similar to Grichuk. We'll need to see how he does in AAA this season, but a Grichuk who makes more contact that Grichuk historically does is a great player.

We'll have to see how Bader adjusts to see if he is a ~.250 hitter in the majors or if he becomes a ~.270+ hitter.

 

[bluesfan94]

I just can't get all that excited about a guy whose profile looks like a lesser Randal Grichuk.

If Schafer sticks I'd think it would be much more likely as a reliever. But man would it be a great story if somehow he could make it as an OF.

He struggled in AAA but if he performs well, he could be Randal Grichuk but actually get on base and hit for average.

 

[Bye Felicia]

Bader gets on pace at a higher pace because he makes contact more, he's that much similar to Grichuk. We'll need to see how he does in AAA this season, but a Grichuk who makes more contact that Grichuk historically does is a great player.

We'll have to see how Bader adjusts to see if he is a ~.250 hitter in the majors or if he becomes a ~.270+ hitter.

But that's the thing. Up to this point, he hasn't shown better contact than Grichuk.

In his age 22 season (in 2014), in 472 PA in AAA, Grichuk slashed .259/.311/.493 with 28 BB and 108 K.

In his age 22 season, in 517 PA combined between AA and AAA, Bader slashed .267/.335./.452 with 36 BB and 131 K. And keep in mind most of this was at the AA level. In 161 PA at AAA, Bader slashed .231/.298/.354. He cut the Ks down but it came at the expense of his power and he hit only 3 HR. And even at Bader's best, he has not shown as much power as Grichuk (.214 ISO at AA last year vs. .234 ISO for Grichuk at AAA in his age 22 season).

Grichuk doesn't make a ton of contact but overall his results on contact are unreal because his exit velocity is excellent.

I don't really see anything else that profiles better. Grichuk actually had a lower BABIP in AAA in 2014 than Bader did in AAA last year, and far lower than what Bader had in AA. Maybe you can say that Bader has better speed (though he doesn't have plus speed), and that he has consistently displayed a high BABIP until AAA, but I tend to think that he is not going to maintain a .340-.350 BABIP in the majors, and Grichuk also posted some sky-high BABIPs in the lower minors.

FWIW, Bader is said to be pretty average in CF, which makes him a better defender, so there's value there. And admittedly I've never watched him play, and of course there's always hope for improvement. But I'd be thrilled if he ends up as an above-average MLB starter. I see it much more likely that he's average or just a fourth outfielder. Maybe that's all we need--our three positions are filled for the next few years. But he's just not a very exciting prospect to me.