Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part II

[PiggySmalls]

Maybe later in the season the Caps will waive him and Blues can get him back and he goes straight to San Antonio.

 

[Reality Czech]

Oh no, I sure hope Jaskin doesn't finally put it all together playing for that stacked Caps team. Good luck to him, shame he couldn't stick around just a bit longer. On the other hand, apparently the Blues have more forward depth than the defending champs!

 

[ort]

Ugh. So Wilson is getting suspended so they need a forward so they take one from the team that they committed the infraction against?

In an alternate dimension where Wilson doesn't cheap shot Sundqvist and he doesn't end up on the IR list, the Blues would probably send Sundqvist down and keep Jaskin up.

So this hit by Wilson ends up rewarding the Caps with a player taken from the very team they knocked a player off the roster from.

I'm not phrasing that right, but man, that's annoying. Screw you Washington.

 

[ort]

My memory is fuzzy, but I remember when Perron was knocked out for a year by Thornton... the Blues needed forward help and they signed some guy from a Euro league and he had to clear waivers... and guess who took him out from under us??? Yup, it was San Jose.

We tried to replace the player they knocked out for a year and then they stole our attempt to replace him.

This feels similarly screwed up to me. I mean, I get it's a business... but at the same time... get the **** out of here with this **** washington. Total **** move.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

Well said

 

[BlueDream]

I won’t miss him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Who cares, I'd rather Blais and Kyrou be on the team than Jaskin. He had 266 games to prove he was more than a 4th liner, and he didn't. 4th liners are dime a dozen and very easy to replace.

 

[Novacain]

Who cares, I'd rather Blais and Kyrou be on the team than Jaskin. He had 266 games to prove he was more than a 4th liner, and he didn't. 4th liners are dime a dozen and very easy to replace.

Except if we DO need a 4th liner, we have basically none, and Jaskin was a really good one.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

My memory is fuzzy, but I remember when Perron was knocked out for a year by Thornton... the Blues needed forward help and they signed some guy from a Euro league and he had to clear waivers... and guess who took him out from under us??? Yup, it was San Jose.

We tried to replace the player they knocked out for a year and then they stole our attempt to replace him.

This feels similarly screwed up to me. I mean, I get it's a business... but at the same time... get the **** out of here with this **** washington. Total **** move.

You're talking about Kyle Wellwood. Yes, and the rules were changed after this happened. It wasn't fair for a GM to do all the work of building a relationship, getting the contract, and then have the player have to go through waivers so that someone else could benefit from his work.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Except if we DO need a 4th liner, we have basically none, and Jaskin was a really good one.

We are overrating him quite a bit. Jaskin provided hits and cycling ability. We talk about his defensive play, but it's more of his possession play because of puck-protection and cycle that was good. He couldn't be on a shutdown line because of his lack of speed, and he wasn't used on the PK. He was a big body that wasn't used on the PP either.

 

[ort]

Yeah, this whole situation would be a lot more annoying if the players involved weren't Jaskin and Sundqvist.

If we lost Sundqvist to waivers I wouldn't even shrug. Jaskin stings a little more because I like the kid and want him to succeed, but yeah, he's an easily replaceable cog.

Still, it's frustrating.

 

[Evocable Manager]

We are overrating him quite a bit. Jaskin provided hits and cycling ability. We talk about his defensive play, but it's more of his possession play because of puck-protection and cycle that was good. He couldn't be on a shutdown line because of his lack of speed, and he wasn't used on the PK. He was a big body that wasn't used on the PP either.

You don't need speed to be on a shutdown line. Otherwise how the hell would O'Reilly be so good at it?
Him not being used on the PK was simply a bad coaching decision IMO.
And you don't constitute spending time in the offensive zone as defense? That's the BEST way to defend.

Jaskin being waived was honestly a bad move and it's gonna bite this team. Especially considering Sundqvist is somehow still not on the waiver wire (as far as I can see).
I don't see why we couldn't have kept Jaskin as a 13/14th forward. He was an excellent 4th line option.

 

[Novacain]

We are overrating him quite a bit. Jaskin provided hits and cycling ability. We talk about his defensive play, but it's more of his possession play because of puck-protection and cycle that was good. He couldn't be on a shutdown line because of his lack of speed, and he wasn't used on the PK. He was a big body that wasn't used on the PP either.

Yes, I'm aware. That to me is the No.1 important quality of a 4th liner in a more defensive role. I'll take the guy who keeps the puck in the other teams zone even if they aren't generating scoring chances because it wears down teh other team.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You don't need speed to be on a shutdown line. Otherwise how the hell would O'Reilly be so good at it?
Him not being used on the PK was simply a bad coaching decision IMO.

Jaskin being waived was honestly a bad move and it's gonna bite this team. Especially considering Sundqvist is somehow still not on the waiver wire (as far as I can see).
I don't see why we couldn't have kept Jaskin as a 13/14th forward. He was an excellent 4th line option.

Obviously there is more to it than that, but Jaskin's lack of speed is a major reason for why he could never be on a shutdown line. ROR is a better skater than Jaskin, but he also has a tremendous ability to read plays and know where to be, as well as specific skills like stick-checking and defending 1v1. Jaskin doesn't have those at the caliber needed to be a shutdown defender either.

He's like a forward version of Bortozzo. Nothing wrong with that, but lets not start pretending he was anything special.

Sundqvist is hurt, and it happened in an NHL game, so he can't go on waivers.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yes, I'm aware. That to me is the No.1 important quality of a 4th liner in a more defensive role. I'll take the guy who keeps the puck in the other teams zone even if they aren't generating scoring chances because it wears down teh other team.

If that's the quality that is needed, then you can find it anywhere. Remember the CPR line? They sucked at hockey, but they could keep the puck on the cycle long enough to rotate to the next line.

 

[Zamadoo]

Yes, I'm aware. That to me is the No.1 important quality of a 4th liner in a more defensive role. I'll take the guy who keeps the puck in the other teams zone even if they aren't generating scoring chances because it wears down teh other team.

I agree with Novacain here in that Jaskin wasn't great in the Dzone and could not play PK. I would rather have quick and tenacious 4th liners who can play on special teams. 'Shut down lines' aren't dependent upon speed, but it is an asset tht Jaskin did not possess. He had neither quickness, agility, or speed. He's really just not a mobile or powerful guy. All he can do is hit.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Obviously there is more to it than that, but Jaskin's lack of speed is a major reason for why he could never be on a shutdown line. ROR is a better skater than Jaskin, but he also has a tremendous ability to read plays and know where to be, as well as specific skills like stick-checking and defending 1v1. Jaskin doesn't have those at the caliber needed to be a shutdown defender either.

He's like a forward version of Bortozzo. Nothing wrong with that, but lets not start pretending he was anything special.

Sundqvist is hurt, and it happened in an NHL game, so he can't go on waivers.

Jaskin is the best forward we had at puck retention and protection. He could take the puck using his body and protect it with his body. He'd muscle guys off the wall and keep a constant rotation. He's quite literally a perfect 4th liner in every way from defending, cycling and cost. We just have him up for nothing, which is not good asset management. He could play either wing as well.

He's certainly far from a forward version of Bortuzzo.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Clearly I missed this article yesterday, but Blues are working with The Urge for a new goal song. So Seven Nation Army cliche has come to an end. I’m stoked about what they come up with. Hopefully it gets play a lot on Thursday.

Blues partner with The Urge for new goal song

 

[bleedblue1223]

Jaskin is the best forward we had at puck retention and protection. He could take the puck using his body and protect it with his body. He'd muscle guys off the wall and keep a constant rotation. He's quite literally a perfect 4th liner in every way from defending, cycling and cost. We just have him up for nothing, which is not good asset management. He could play either wing as well.

He's certainly far from a forward version of Bortuzzo.

With a healthy roster, he likely wasn't going to be playing anyway. He can't do anything with the puck after he gets it though. He can't shoot or setup teammates, so it leads to pointless possessions. Yes, it wears down the opponents, but those players are a dime a dozen.

And yes, he's a forward version of Bortozzo. A positive possession players on the 4th line/3rd pairing, that can't really do anything to produce points or be point against top competition.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

With a healthy roster, he likely wasn't going to be playing anyway. He can't do anything with the puck after he gets it though. He can't shoot or setup teammates, so it leads to pointless possessions. Yes, it wears down the opponents, but those players are a dime a dozen.

And yes, he's a forward version of Bortozzo. A positive possession players on the 4th line/3rd pairing, that can't really do anything to produce points or be point against top competition.

This is where the metrics can lead people astray. Jaskin was a good metrics player, but he couldn't shoot...at all. Stastny is the only reason he hit 12 goals once. I remember a 3-1 break for the Blues last year where Schwartz, Schenn, and Jaskin broke into the zone and Jaskin shot it into the goalie's chest protector from above the slot. Schenn and Schwartz were just stunned and looked borderline dejected. I remember screaming at my TV wondering what in the hell he was doing. This is why metrics aren't everything and don't tell the whole story. Jaskin is a dime a dozen player and can probably be picked up off waivers again once Wilson is back. If not, then good luck to him and I hope he finally finds his game that he never was able to find here. He was given plenty of chances too, especially last year.

Now, I just hope Yeo and Armstrong do the right thing and send Thorburn to San Antonio. Barbashev is good enough until Fabbri is back. I think the forward lines are pretty set, although I still hate Maroon with O'Reilly and Tarasenko...it's just bad look.

 

[Hivemind]

Ugh. So Wilson is getting suspended so they need a forward so they take one from the team that they committed the infraction against?

In an alternate dimension where Wilson doesn't cheap shot Sundqvist and he doesn't end up on the IR list, the Blues would probably send Sundqvist down and keep Jaskin up.

So this hit by Wilson ends up rewarding the Caps with a player taken from the very team they knocked a player off the roster from.

I'm not phrasing that right, but man, that's annoying. Screw you Washington.

Clearing up a couple things with regard to this line of thinking, since it's now also been shared on the main boards and HFCaps.

Players on Injured Reserve (IR) do not take up roster spots, so Sundqvist does not count towards the 23-man roster.
Players on Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) do not take up roster spots and the teams are allowed to exceed the salary cap by the same amount as their cap hit. So if Sundqvist is shifted to LTIR, the Blues can exceed the salary cap by $700k.

As it stands now, Sundqvist is on IR (not LTIR).

Currently, per CapFriendly, the Blues do not have the salary cap room to fit Jaskin's $1.1M cap hit under the salary cap with a full 23 man roster. Using CapFriendly's numbers, clearing an additional $700K from Sundqvist doesn't change that ($334,835 available space + $700K only gets you to $1.03M, just short of the money needed for Jaskin).

The injuries and suspensions to the blueline leading to the acquisition of Jerabek ($1M cap hit) is what led to the Blues running out of cap space to keep Jaskin.

 

[blueper]

Do I recall the Blues saving money against the cap last year by carrying less than the roster limit for a few games? If so, I'd rather go that route than place Thorburn in the press box now that no one in the NHL wants him ... again.
Nice guy, I'm sure. Just not an NHLer any longer ... nor was he when the Blues signed him to a 2 year contract. That signing was kind of strange ... an emotional over-reaction to not having Reaves after trading him at the draft IMO.

 

[rumrokh]

Regarding Jaskin's checking abilities (as opposed to possession): he gets lost whenever he has to play in the middle of the ice in his own zone, but he's very good at checking the point, especially for his lack of speed.

 

[rumrokh]

 

[STL fan in MN]

You don't need speed to be on a shutdown line. Otherwise how the hell would O'Reilly be so good at it?
Him not being used on the PK was simply a bad coaching decision IMO.
And you don't constitute spending time in the offensive zone as defense? That's the BEST way to defend.

Jaskin being waived was honestly a bad move and it's gonna bite this team. Especially considering Sundqvist is somehow still not on the waiver wire (as far as I can see).
I don't see why we couldn't have kept Jaskin as a 13/14th forward. He was an excellent 4th line option.

Sundqvist wasn’t put on waivers because he literally couldn’t have been placed there once he got injured. Now that he’s injured, he has to go on either IR or LTIR.

And if it’s IR, he still counts against the Cap (just not the 23-man roster). If Sundqvist hadn’t have gotten injured, the Blues likely waive Sundqvist and find a way to keep Jaskin as a spare forward. But they’re super tight up against the Cap.

The Borts suspension (suspended players still count against the Cap) and Edmundson’s groin injury and thus the acquisition of Jerabek and his $1M Cap hit factors into how they ran out of room to fit Jaskin under the Cap as well.