Proposal: Blue Jackets-Flyers

[Maurice of Orange]

Columbus acquires: C Kevin Hayes (Philadelphia retains 1mil per season), RW Samu Tuomaala and a 2025 5th round pick (PHI)


Philadelphia acquires: C Jack Roslovic and RD Marcus Bjork

Columbus gets a big center that is still producing points, plus a Finnish prospect and a later pick for Roslovic’s contract and AHL defender Bjork.

Not sure if the value is close but this proposal gives Philly long term cap space while also giving Columbus a big center and a project prospect as collateral for taking Roslovic. This is an offseason move before the draft.

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[stevo61]

Dont think you will see a long list of Blue Jacket fans excited to ultimately do Philly a favor. 6.1 mil for 3 more years for a skilled but very lazy player is not exciting at all

 

[SoundAndFury]

Surely if the Flyers are willing to retain salary Hayes is worth more than a mediocre player 1 year away from UFA. Also I don't think cap space is what Flyers need, they need to build the team. Retain 50% and get actual good piece for the future.

Like why is freeing up cap space a priority to the Flyers, at all?

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Dont think you will see a long list of Blue Jacket fans excited to ultimately do Philly a favor. 6.1 mil for 3 more years for a skilled but very lazy player is not exciting at all

seems like Hayes cap hit is $7.1M actually which is alot wow

 

[stevo61]

seems like Hayes cap hit is $7.1M actually which is alot wow

Yeah the OP said 1mil retention which is not nearly enough. If Briere wants to start a proper rebuild he hopefully for Columbus' sake is more willing to retain more for value or to simply get rid of that horrible contract

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Yeah the OP said 1mil retention which is not nearly enough. If Briere wants to start a proper rebuild he hopefully for Columbus' sake is more willing to retain more for value or to simply get rid of that horrible contract

oh shoot youre right i misread

 

[Youngguns80]

Columbus acquires: C Kevin Hayes (Philadelphia retains 1mil per season), RW Samu Tuomaala and a 2025 5th round pick (PHI)


Philadelphia acquires: C Jack Roslovic and RD Marcus Bjork

Columbus gets a big center that is still producing points, plus a Finnish prospect and a later pick for Roslovic’s contract and AHL defender Bjork.

Not sure if the value is close but this proposal gives Philly long term cap space while also giving Columbus a big center and a project prospect as collateral for taking Roslovic. This is an offseason move before the draft.

Sounds like a good deal for Philly, but not so much for CBUS.

How about $2.5m retention and you get Rosolovic for 1 yr at $4M. This is just a player for player swap with retention since Hayes is $7.1 for the next 3 seasons.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Surely if the Flyers are willing to retain salary Hayes is worth more than a mediocre player 1 year away from UFA. Also I don't think cap space is what Flyers need, they need to build the team. Retain 50% and get actual good piece for the future.

Like why is freeing up cap space a priority to the Flyers, at all?

If Briere is serious enough to rebuild the Flyers then long term cap space would be the highest necessity, other teams that were or are rebuilding dumped cap rather then retained cap while trying to get something from it.

Roslovic wouldn’t be a long term need for the Flyers either as he could be fliped at the next deadline for a pick.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Sounds like a good deal for Philly, but not so much for CBUS.

How about $2.5m retention and you get Rosolovic for 1 yr at $4M. This is just a player for player swap with retention since Hayes is $7.1 for the next 3 seasons.

Could be a good deal for Columbus depending on how it’s looked at.

Would also push Jenner down the lineup giving the Jackets more flexibility while also having enough room on the forward depth to keep being in young talent while staying below the cap.

Kevin Hayes is also friendly with a few players on the Jackets roster so the transition to Columbus wouldn’t be an issue for Hayes.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

Trading for Kevin Hayes is not going to make the Jackets a better team next year. Adding a steady, minute eating defensemen and a halfway respectable goaltender (1B type) would be much better uses of their assets.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Yeah the OP said 1mil retention which is not nearly enough. If Briere wants to start a proper rebuild he hopefully for Columbus' sake is more willing to retain more for value or to simply get rid of that horrible contract

With 1mil retention Columbus can easily fit Hayes onto their roster season next since Jarmo traded Voracek’s contract to Arizona.

Columbus would even have room to add to their roster as they also have many ELC prospects that are going to be pushing for a spot on their roster next season so with Hayes hit at just over 6.1mil wouldn’t be an issue for Columbus while also not blocking any prospect from making the roster.

 

[SoundAndFury]

If Briere is serious enough to rebuild the Flyers then long term cap space would be the highest necessity

One word: why?

Not to mention the next part of your post is just blatantly not true, "other teams that were or are rebuilding dumped cap" is just a ridiculous statement. Many rebuilding teams took on cap, mostly in form of overpaid players, without any issue. Arizona has Nemeth, Kassian, had Richie; Chicago just picked up Zaitsev to add to Mrazek, Dickinson and Johnson and so on.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

One word: why?

Not to mention the next part of your post is just blatantly not true, "other teams that were or are rebuilding dumped cap" is just a ridiculous statement. Many rebuilding teams took on cap, mostly in form of overpaid players, without any issue. Arizona has Nemeth, Kassian, had Richie; Chicago just picked up Zaitsev to add to Mrazek, Dickinson and Johnson and so on.

Detroit is in the process of rebuilding and traded Bertuzzi, Hronek, Namestnikov and others acquiring picks, same with Ottawa trading Karlsson, Connor Brown, JG Pageau, Stone for picks and prospects, both teams also had expired contracts or bought out players as well.

You asked why long term cap space would be a necessity, look at some of the anchor contracts the Flyers have on their books thanks to Chuck Flecher and you’d see why the Flyers are going to need the space if they are seriously thinking about rebuilding the team.

I don’t believe the Flyers should go the buyout route unless they are buying out the last year of a contract that’s not needed on the team. I not a believer in buyouts as well as it’s not good business to have a lot of dead cap on the books for years on end.

I’m also not in favor of retaining anymore then 1mil of Hayes on the Flyers books for the next three seasons.

I’ve also heard from Jackets fans that Roslovic has been in the doghouse this season just as Hayes has been with Torts.

 

[stevo61]

With 1mil retention Columbus can easily fit Hayes onto their roster season next since Jarmo traded Voracek’s contract to Arizona.

Columbus would even have room to add to their roster as they also have many ELC prospects that are going to be pushing for a spot on their roster next season so with Hayes hit at just over 6.1mil wouldn’t be an issue for Columbus while also not blocking any prospect from making the roster.

Its not a matter of can they, its a matter of should they. Especially if they luck into Bedard it really becomes pointless.

 

[Xoggz22]

I know there are rumors out there around Hayes to Columbus and while Columbus may need centers to support, I don't think Hayes offers anythign that Jenner can't. CBJ are likely to get a top 3 pick which will be a center (Bedard contribures next year, the others in 2 years?), they have Kent Johnson that is believed to be moving to center, along with Sillinger, Voronkov, Kuraly. While I get none may be that top 6 type guy next year, it certainly would seem they will have options in the 2nd year of that remaining 3 years making Hayes a bit of an albatross.

Now I do think higher retention might interest Columbus, which would also potentially allow them to move him for the last year of his deal. I think the framework might be an option but not without higher retention. Just my opinion.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Detroit is in the process of rebuilding and traded Bertuzzi, Hronek, Namestnikov and others acquiring picks, same with Ottawa trading Karlsson, Connor Brown, JG Pageau, Stone for picks and prospects, both teams also had expired contracts or bought out players as well.

You asked why long term cap space would be a necessity, look at some of the anchor contracts the Flyers have on their books thanks to Chuck Flecher and you’d see why the Flyers are going to need the space if they are seriously thinking about rebuilding the team.

I don’t believe the Flyers should go the buyout route unless they are buying out the last year of a contract that’s not needed on the team. I not a believer in buyouts as well as it’s not good business to have a lot of dead cap on the books for years on end.

I’m also not in favor of retaining anymore then 1mil of Hayes on the Flyers books for the next three seasons.

I’ve also heard from Jackets fans that Roslovic has been in the doghouse this season just as Hayes has been with Torts.

Detroit is in the 6th year of their rebuild, they are at the point of aggressively adding UFAs and having to extend core players they got during the rebuild. If anything, they are a perfect example why Flyers shouldn't care about their cap at all, because that's how long it takes to stink and Hayes' remaining 3 years are absolutely inconsequential.

The same goes with Ottawa's example: they traded the guys you listed to get the assets that help them in the rebuild, they traded their best players that weren't overpaid at all, they traded ones that could bring something. That's exactly why Flyers should trade Hayes for something that benefits them long-term as well which your proposal doesn't do at all. Just a waste of an asset which, with correct handling, Hayes still is.

Trading Hayes for next to no nothing in no way helps Flyers to get rid of anchor contracts either. Again, if you have anchor contracts, that is THE problem. Trading away fairly useful players so that you have space AROUND those anchor contracts is just avoiding the issue, not solving it.

Again, if Flyers commit to rebuild their goal is to be bad. They don't need to buy out anyone because THEY DON'T HAVE PLAYERS TO SIGN. Stage one of the rebuild is to get those players by being bad. Which takes at least 3 years. So Flyers really don't have to worry at all about their cap situation for at least 3 years. Same way Buffalo are carrying pretty awful contracts of Okposo and Skinner and don't mind it at all bacause it doesn't matter. If anything, Skinner is still net-positive for them.

Like seriously, you have the whole rebuild backwards. The goal isn't to just tear your team down for the sake of it, goal is to find ways to collect assets for the future and this trade in no way achieves it.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Its not a matter of can they, its a matter of should they. Especially if they luck into Bedard it really becomes pointless.

The proposal was a trade before the draft.

Even if Columbus gets the top pick I don’t believe Bedard would be thrust right into the 1C spot right away and adding depth down the middle would make the Blue Jackets a formidable team to matchup against with Hayes and Bedard on the roster.

It’s not that the Jackets even have a bad team it’s just that the injuries this season have decimated their roster.

No one on these boards expected Columbus to become a dead last place team this season, as I was of the opinion that the Jackets would be challenging for a playoff spot but I was wrong about Columbus chances of competing for a spot in the post season.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Detroit is in the 6th year of their rebuild, they are at the point of aggressively adding UFAs and having to extend core players they got during the rebuild. If anything, they are a perfect example why Flyers shouldn't care about their cap at all, because that's how long it takes to stink and Hayes' remaining 3 years are absolutely inconsequential.

The same goes with Ottawa's example: they traded the guys you listed to get the assets that help them in the rebuild, they traded their best players that weren't overpaid at all, they traded ones that could bring something. That's exactly why Flyers should trade Hayes for something that benefits them long-term as well which your proposal doesn't do at all. Just a waste of an asset which, with correct handling, Hayes still is.

Trading Hayes for next to no nothing in no way helps Flyers to get rid of anchor contracts either. Again, if you have anchor contracts, that is THE problem. Trading away fairly useful players so that you have space AROUND those anchor contracts is just avoiding the issue, not solving it.

Again, if Flyers commit to rebuild their goal is to be bad. They don't need to buy out anyone because THEY DON'T HAVE PLAYERS TO SIGN. Stage one of the rebuild is to get those players by being bad. Which takes at least 3 years. So Flyers really don't have to worry at all about their cap situation for at least 3 years. Same way Buffalo are carrying pretty awful contracts of Okposo and Skinner and don't mind it at all bacause it doesn't matter. If anything, Skinner is still net-positive for them.

Like seriously, you have the whole rebuild backwards. The goal isn't to just tear your team down for the sake of it, goal is to find ways to collect assets for the future and this trade in no way achieves it.

I agree with some of the things you’ve stated but disagree with other statements you’ve made.

Rebuilds do take a lot of time and patience something that Flyers fans are very short on but it’s also something that may become necessary if the Flyers want to compete for a playoff spot in this decade. Detroit and Ottawa are teams that are still rebuilding that dumped contracts and cap for picks prospects which is why I used them as an example it’s also what the Flyers should be doing if they really do end up rebuilding.

The Flyers have been bad for awhile now, I don’t know how much worse it could get but I agree that no one should be brought out as having a lot of dead cap for a long period of time is just bad business.

I do believe in retaining cap but to a certain extent, retaining 50% long term is a no go in my book as it still keeps dead cap for long periods of time and is not good business.

This proposal gives the Flyers a useful player in Roslovic at 4mil next season but the objective would be to flip Jack at the next deadline for a pick.

Okposo and Skinner are still useful players to the Sabres and might not be the best of examples just as my use of Detroit and Ottawa rebuilds might have not been the best of examples.

I also agree that the Flyers should be collecting picks or prospects in any trade of a roster player but I don’t see many teams lining up for Hayes even at 50% retention to get quality assets back as many teams have traded 1st and 2nd round picks this season so those type of picks for Kevin are most likely off the table even at 50%.

 

[koteka]

I am one that thinks that a stop gap like RyJo or Kevin Hayes might make sense for the Jackets. But they have to get something pretty good in return. Like $1 million retained Hayes plus Florida’s 2024 first round draft pick for Roslovic. Without a major sweetener or serious retention, it is not a move the Jackets should make.

 

[Lindberg]

Kevin Hayes at 50% is far more attractive as trade bait than just 15% (whatever it is) off. 3 years of a contract is a long time? It's a rebuild. You'd be lucky to see the Flyers good again at year 3 to make a difference.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I guess to reiterate, the Flyers gave Hayes' agent permission to seek a deal prior to the deadline, and the Blue Jackets were interested and the framework of a draft-day-ish deal may have been loosely put in place (prior to Fletcher's firing).

So there's already expressed interest on the CBJ side, though who knows what the nature of the trade might look like, especially with Fletcher out of the picture. CBJ's interest makes sense given that they need scoring forwards and he's not a horrible option with some retainment, plus he's close/longtime friends with Johnny Gaudreau, who they may be trying to cater to.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I am one that thinks that a stop gap like RyJo or Kevin Hayes might make sense for the Jackets. But they have to get something pretty good in return. Like $1 million retained Hayes plus Florida’s 2024 first round draft pick for Roslovic. Without a major sweetener or serious retention, it is not a move the Jackets should make.

If Briere isn’t blowing smoke on a rebuild then giving up a 1st round pick is most definitely out of the question, the 1mil retention would also stand as keeping over 3.5mil (50% retention) on the books for the next 3 seasons is a no go as well.

Maybe the Flyers could put a better prospect in the deal instead of Samu Tuomaala but as for the proposal it stands as is.

The centers the Jackets have now are Jenner, Roslovic, Sillinger, Kuraly, potentially Kent Johnson next season and maybe Bedard if they get the top pick, adding another vet down the middle with Jenner wouldn’t hurt the younger centers Columbus has, Hayes has also played in every forward position throughout his career so he is somewhat versatile in that aspect as well.

I believe Hayes would be a perfect complement to skilled players like Gaudreau, Laine or even Marchenko as Hayes playmaking and passing abilities would complement those scorers nicely.

 

[614 CBJ]

if Jarmo gets Hayes and that contract he's an idiot

 

[Maurice of Orange]

if Jarmo gets Hayes and that contract he's an idiot

Why? Columbus would easily fit Kevin Hayes into their salary structure as the cap goes up every year also the Jackets don’t have any extensions kicking in and there is not an major RFA’s or potential UFA’s that need to be resigned until next season.

Major RFA’s that are eventually going to need new deals before or at the end of next season are Johnson, Sillinger, Marchenko, Blankenburg and Bean.

As far as they go most of those players are coming off of ELC’s and aren’t expected to break the bank. If Marchenko catches more fire he could possibly be in play for a nice raise but still shouldn’t do too much damage to the Jackets salary structure.

 

[Lindberg]

Why? Columbus would easily fit Kevin Hayes into their salary structure as the cap goes up every year also the Jackets don’t have any extensions kicking in and there is not an major RFA’s or potential UFA’s that need to be resigned until next season.

Major RFA’s that are eventually going to need new deals before or at the end of next season are Johnson, Sillinger, Marchenko, Blankenburg and Bean.

As far as they go most of those players are coming off of ELC’s and aren’t expected to break the bank. If Marchenko catches more fire he could possibly be in play for a nice raise but still shouldn’t do too much damage to the Jackets salary structure.

Why are you obsessed with retaining as little as possible on Hayes? The Flyers aren't contending for a cup after 1 year. Having 3 years of dead space on Kevin Hayes is really not a factor even if the Flyers got lucky and was somehow a contender with 1 year left of dead space.

The point of rebuilding is to get as many assets/tickets to the lottery as fast as you can.