Post-Game Talk: Blackhawks 6, Bryan Rust 3, Penguins 0 - At Least It Wasn't 10-2

[Pancakes]

I actually have linked some of the advanced stats to show that especially their 5 v 5 numbers are up there among the better teams over the last 25 games.

The thing that gets to me though is that, unlike last year, they really are for the most part busting their butts and playing hard. And STILL look overwhelmed often. Yes, their stats have been decent but I see that as their limit. Unlike last year there is no other gear to go to when the playoffs start, there really haven;t been an overwhelming number of injuries with lots of key players coming back, this is as good as it gets.

And that scares the hell out of me.

I mentioned a similar point earlier about how our guys that should be producing are and I wonder what else our stars/Guentzel/etc have to give. Obviously Brassard and Rust have more to give. But overall on the year our guys are producing mostly what they should.

The most glaring position that is not doing what it should is our goaltending. Murray is capable of way better than he's done. He should be able to at least put up a 910ish type save percentage. If he can do even that when he comes back, it may make a difference.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's fair to have this opinion but it's a little low effort to just say it without addressing any of Empoleon's arguments.

I'd say where the Pens sit in the standings refute Emp's opinion of the team playing excellent hockey.

I mean, if we take out a bad 10 game stretch to say how awesome they've been, then shouldn't you also take out their best 10 game stretch?

The only thing I can agree on is they're not as bad as that 10 game stretch suggested. But I also don't think they've been "excellent" outside of that 10 game stretch. A team that only won one game (a shootout win at that) versus three of the weaker teams this past week isn't playing excellent hockey.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd say where the Pens sit in the standings refute Emp's opinion of the team playing excellent hockey.

I mean, if we take out a bad 10 game stretch to say how awesome they've been, then shouldn't you also take out their best 10 game stretch?

The only thing I can agree on is they're not as bad as that 10 game stretch suggested. But I also don't think they've been "excellent" outside of that 10 game stretch. A team that only won one game (a shootout win at that) versus three of the weaker teams this past week isn't playing excellent hockey.

Saying the Islanders are a “weaker team” is odd if we are using records.

I agree with the Philly, Chicago and Ottawa assessment. But, we are playing the right way against those teams to win outside of a few players.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'd say where the Pens sit in the standings refute Emp's opinion of the team playing excellent hockey.

I mean, if we take out a bad 10 game stretch to say how awesome they've been, then shouldn't you also take out their best 10 game stretch?

The only thing I can agree on is they're not as bad as that 10 game stretch suggested. But I also don't think they've been "excellent" outside of that 10 game stretch. A team that only won one game (a shootout win at that) versus three of the weaker teams this past week isn't playing excellent hockey.

I don’t see a roster capable of playing the way Sullivan and JR claim they want to play.

Maybe when Simon and Hornqvist get back it pushes a couple plugs out, but it feels like they need a couple significant moves. Not major surgery, but I feel JR needs to add at least one more skilled player up front and on the back end if they want to compete with the likes of TB and Was... and we can’t rule out the Leafs could be a very tough out if they find a legit partner for Rielly.

Can’t see guys like ZAR, Pearson, JJ and Oleksiak in their current roles if they want to make a legit cup run, and Schultz coming back isn’t what I consider to be the move needed to fix the back end. I’m hoping for 3-4 legit puck movers including Schultz...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I actually have linked some of the advanced stats to show that especially their 5 v 5 numbers are up there among the better teams over the last 25 games.

The thing that gets to me though is that, unlike last year, they really are for the most part busting their butts and playing hard. And STILL look overwhelmed often. Yes, their stats have been decent but I see that as their limit. Unlike last year there is no other gear to go to when the playoffs start, there really haven;t been an overwhelming number of injuries with lots of key players coming back, this is as good as it gets.

And that scares the hell out of me.

This is actually something I don't agree with. My concern with this team is them not making the playoffs, I'm way more concerned about that than them being flat in the playoffs. The Penguins have a ton of playoff performers, the big 4, Murray, Guentzel, Brassard, Johnson (yes, he has been a playoff monster over his career) and Rust have been historically great playoff players. I think you can argue that Maatta and Dumoulin also fall into this category. The team is definitely built for the playoffs, a vast majority of the team either steps up in the playoffs or doesn't get worse. I think Sheahan is the only guy on the roster who has a history of faltering in the playoffs.

My concern is them getting to the playoffs, which is why I don't get why so many people here crapped on Sheary all of the time. You need those guys who can be effective in the regular season to get you to the playoffs, even if they're not that effective in the playoffs.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Saying the Islanders are a “weaker team” is odd if we are using records.

I agree with the Philly, Chicago and Ottawa assessment. But, we are playing the right way against those teams to win outside of a few players.

Islanders are playing structured hockey under Trotz, but "on paper" they're bad. Their defense corps makes ours look like Nashville's.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don’t see a roster capable of playing the way Sullivan and JR claim they want to play.

Maybe when Simon and Hornqvist get back it pushes a couple plugs out, but it feels like they need a couple significant moves. Not major surgery, but I feel JR needs to add at least one more skilled player up front and on the back end if they want to compete with the likes of TB and Was... and we can’t rule out the Leafs could be a very tough out if they find a legit partner for Rielly.

Can’t see guys like ZAR, Pearson, JJ and Oleksiak in their current roles if they want to make a legit cup run, and Schultz coming back isn’t what I consider to be the move needed to fix the back end. I’m hoping for 3-4 legit puck movers including Schultz...

This has been true for a couple of years now. Head scratching decisions such as signing/trading for players who are the antithesis of that style of play and loading up four lines of speed and skill makes one wonder if there are factions in the organization at war with one another.

 

[Gurglesons]

Islanders are playing structured hockey under Trotz, but "on paper" they're bad. Their defense corps makes ours look like Nashville's.

Hm. Disagree. Pulock, Leddy, and Boychuk would be our 3rd best D, Leddy maybe our 2nd.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This has been true for a couple of years now. Head scratching decisions such as signing/trading for players who are the antithesis of that style of play and loading up four lines of speed and skill makes one wonder if there are factions in the organization at war with one another.

Ya, I keep saying I have no clue what their identity is anymore. They have fast guys in the A playing very well, and that’s again the easiest way to make changes and see what happens... but they seem more inclined to give the ZARs, Wilsons and Grants those opportunities instead, so...

And I was ok with the JJ signing because I knew little of him, but he came advertised as an offensive blueliner by the brass, and that’s why I was cool with the move, but he’s no better at moving the puck and generating offense than Maatta. So I’m not upset about his defense, I’m just disappointed the org watched tape on him and decided he’s a good puck mover.

It’s like they are having trouble identifying the skills they need for this team... Brass seems like the only guy they have brought in since the second cup that fits that ideal of what they want. However, he needs to be with skill to get the most out of him, which isn’t exactly a crazy notion.

 

[Will Hunting]

Seriously there are people talking about "excellent" when it comes to Pens play?? Sure, there are overreactions both ways, but you don´t have to call Pens "excellent" just to prove your point and silence those bridge jumpers. The fact is that the Pens look pretty average, to say it diplomatically. Lots of problems, quite boring and some bright spots too, but not many. It will probably be enough to squeeze into the playoffs. But "excellent" ?? Really? Come oon.......

 

[cheesedanish87]

I actually have linked some of the advanced stats to show that especially their 5 v 5 numbers are up there among the better teams over the last 25 games.

The thing that gets to me though is that, unlike last year, they really are for the most part busting their butts and playing hard. And STILL look overwhelmed often. Yes, their stats have been decent but I see that as their limit. Unlike last year there is no other gear to go to when the playoffs start, there really haven;t been an overwhelming number of injuries with lots of key players coming back, this is as good as it gets.

And that scares the hell out of me.

I feel the exact same way you do.

When the Pens used to play hard and play close to their A game they would dominate games.

Now whenever they play well the games are still usually competitive.

They just aren't that good anymore, their old and slow.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel the exact same way you do.

When the Pens used to play hard and play close to their A game they would dominate games.

Now whenever they play well the games are still usually competitive.

They just aren't that good anymore, their old and slow.

I don’t think they are old and slow. I think our conference has gotten much, much better. It’s why our record against the West is so good.

I’ve been saying this since the back to back. Every team in our division except for the Rangers is going to get better every year. Same with the Atlantic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you want to go the "old and slow" route, the problem with the Penguins comes more from their stars not being able to consistently do what they were able to do when they were 25. It's why you're seeing the Hawks being as bad as they are, Toews, Kane and Keith just can't do what they did in the past and the roster has taken massive steps backwards. If you'd take 2012 Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Kessel and put them on this team, this team would be virtually unbeatable. Those guys just can't dominate as consistently as they did in the past anymore. Points don't tell the whole story with that, I don't think many people would say Malkin last year was better than Malkin in 2013-2014. If you surrounded today's Crosby, Malkin and Letang with the 2011-12 team, you'd max out at being a wildcard team.

Does that mean they're "old and slow"? No, that just means they can't be dominant night in and night out like they used to be able to do. You just need to surround them with a better team, which the Penguins have done and it's why they've won 2 cups. The only way you're going to fix the oldness and slowness on the roster is if you gut the core, which isn't going to happen. So unless you're trading Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Kessel, talking about the team being old and stale doesn't work.

 

[BHD]

Bruins tomorrow night...

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Keep the discussion (it's a good one!) going in the off-day thread.