Movies: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

mattihp

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Aug 2, 2004
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I liked it! I think it was three movies at once though.

I don't understand why they called this character Namor though. Not many similarities, but I liked this character too.

Not a fan of Shuri's suit though. I know she's very slim, but the suit looked very odd because of it being as slim as her. Some extra padding on the sides would have made it look so much better.
 

blueandgoldguy

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Looks like the box office will be a bit disappointing for this one. Likely to top out at about $450 million domestically and around $800 - $850 million worldwide. I thought it would do $550 million in North America which would still be $150 million short of the first movie. I guess there are a lot fewer repeat viewings of these movies - something that is necessary to reach those large numbers - than there was a few years ago.
 

SugarSherm

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Aug 25, 2012
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Looks like the box office will be a bit disappointing for this one. Likely to top out at about $450 million domestically and around $800 - $850 million worldwide. I thought it would do $550 million in North America which would still be $150 million short of the first movie. I guess there are a lot fewer repeat viewings of these movies - something that is necessary to reach those large numbers - than there was a few years ago.
I know myself and a few others that don’t have the desire to go see every Marvel movie in theaters anymore, electing to wait for Disney+ instead. I’m sure that has something to do with the numbers as well. Finally watched today actually.
 

BertCorbeau

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I know myself and a few others that don’t have the desire to go see every Marvel movie in theaters anymore, electing to wait for Disney+ instead. I’m sure that has something to do with the numbers as well. Finally watched today actually.

Same here :laugh: literally just finished it and can stop boycotting this thread.

Really enjoyed this one! Some nice building blocks for the Thunderbolts, Iron Heart, and future BP work. Mavrel redeemed themselves after Love and Thunder. Might crack my top 5 MCU movies.

Very heartfelt, those emotions around T’Challa were real .. all the feels
 
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Garo

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I found it extremely mid, which sucks because the first one was very very good. The plot is so, so, so bad. It's obviously a setup movie for random other projects, but I don't really care about this? Talokan never made sense as a rival force for Wakanda and it's clearly not - the plot clearly builds somewhere else at first - but it ends up having to be for... reasons. Which also makes the opening act largely irrelevant, and all the questions asked there end up being unsolved. Namor sucks as an antagonist, but was good at the other things. Too bad we were forced to not have those, I guess. De Fontaine and Bilbo were so utterly useless and despite me finding Freeman generally charming it just ended up being very silly here. Riri's cool, but this clearly isn't a movie about her. Dr Strange had a lot of flaws, but with America at the centre of the plot, it made things make sense. Riri has a similar place... kinda, but it really could have been anything else and nothing would have changed. And the CGI surrounding her was atrocious, please treat the artists better its not like the money is missing.

Also was way too long. Having the antagonist's origin more than an hour in the viewing really highlighted this. If only we didn't spend that first hour building an international conflict that went nowhere... If the movie focused on the good aspects of it and didn't end up being a cog in the Marvel Machine as well as being as close to the formula as it could, it would have been a lot better.

Still, very proud of Disney for dropping their first gay character in this film. A very moving two seconds that will definitely not be easy to cut.
 

Jussi

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I found it extremely mid, which sucks because the first one was very very good. The plot is so, so, so bad. It's obviously a setup movie for random other projects, but I don't really care about this? Talokan never made sense as a rival force for Wakanda and it's clearly not - the plot clearly builds somewhere else at first - but it ends up having to be for... reasons. Which also makes the opening act largely irrelevant, and all the questions asked there end up being unsolved. Namor sucks as an antagonist, but was good at the other things. Too bad we were forced to not have those, I guess. De Fontaine and Bilbo were so utterly useless and despite me finding Freeman generally charming it just ended up being very silly here. Riri's cool, but this clearly isn't a movie about her. Dr Strange had a lot of flaws, but with America at the centre of the plot, it made things make sense. Riri has a similar place... kinda, but it really could have been anything else and nothing would have changed. And the CGI surrounding her was atrocious, please treat the artists better its not like the money is missing.

Also was way too long. Having the antagonist's origin more than an hour in the viewing really highlighted this. If only we didn't spend that first hour building an international conflict that went nowhere... If the movie focused on the good aspects of it and didn't end up being a cog in the Marvel Machine as well as being as close to the formula as it could, it would have been a lot better.

Still, very proud of Disney for dropping their first gay character in this film. A very moving two seconds that will definitely not be easy to cut.
Vibranium. Talokan has it. Ramonda lays it out at the U.N in the beginning.
 
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Garo

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Vibranium. Talokan has it. Ramonda lays out at the U.N in the beginning.
But there's hardly any reason for them to be enemies over this, and Ramonda outlines this because when she wants to go fight them, it's over Shuri's kidnapping.

Them being enemies never stops being silly, and they end the movie on the predictable notes of the beginning. Both don't want to share vibranium, both are preyed up upon for it. Them fighting for the remaining two hours is objectively stupid, and would be dramatic if they all didn't realize that wait, we're really doing a dumb here. Except that I had to watch this unfold painfully for the whole movie and nothing they were concerned about in the UN speech is anywhere near resolved.
 
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Jussi

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But there's hardly any reason for them to be enemies over this, and Ramonda outlines this because when she wants to go fight them, it's over Shuri's kidnapping.

Them being enemies never stops being silly, and they end the movie on the predictable notes of the beginning. Both don't want to share vibranium, both are preyed up upon for it. Them fighting for the remaining two hours is objectively stupid, and would be dramatic if they all didn't realize that wait, we're really doing a dumb here. Except that I had to watch this unfold painfully for the whole movie and nothing they were concerned about in the UN speech is anywhere near resolved.
To Namor, all surface dwellers are enemies. His hatred is absolute. There's no logic in it.
 

BertCorbeau

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To Namor, all surface dwellers are enemies. His hatred is absolute. There's no logic in it.

I thought it was pretty clear that if Wakanda was willing to stand with Namor, they were against him .. And attacking them first would be the first power move against the surface world. I think they could have sold that hatred a but more with better dialogue.

I found it extremely mid, which sucks because the first one was very very good. The plot is so, so, so bad. It's obviously a setup movie for random other projects, but I don't really care about this? Talokan never made sense as a rival force for Wakanda and it's clearly not - the plot clearly builds somewhere else at first - but it ends up having to be for... reasons. Which also makes the opening act largely irrelevant, and all the questions asked there end up being unsolved. Namor sucks as an antagonist, but was good at the other things. Too bad we were forced to not have those, I guess. De Fontaine and Bilbo were so utterly useless and despite me finding Freeman generally charming it just ended up being very silly here. Riri's cool, but this clearly isn't a movie about her. Dr Strange had a lot of flaws, but with America at the centre of the plot, it made things make sense. Riri has a similar place... kinda, but it really could have been anything else and nothing would have changed. And the CGI surrounding her was atrocious, please treat the artists better its not like the money is missing.

Also was way too long. Having the antagonist's origin more than an hour in the viewing really highlighted this. If only we didn't spend that first hour building an international conflict that went nowhere... If the movie focused on the good aspects of it and didn't end up being a cog in the Marvel Machine as well as being as close to the formula as it could, it would have been a lot better.

Still, very proud of Disney for dropping their first gay character in this film. A very moving two seconds that will definitely not be easy to cut.

I don't think the MCU movies are going to be your thing if you're looking for a better quality stand alone film, rather than something that ties into the MCU and future events. As the MCU has become more woven and complex it's important to detail things like how this international conflict table sets future MCU projects to build a thorough longer story.
 

Garo

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I thought it was pretty clear that if Wakanda was willing to stand with Namor, they were against him .. And attacking them first would be the first power move against the surface world. I think they could have sold that hatred a but more with better dialogue.



I don't think the MCU movies are going to be your thing if you're looking for a better quality stand alone film, rather than something that ties into the MCU and future events. As the MCU has become more woven and complex it's important to detail things like how this international conflict table sets future MCU projects to build a thorough longer story.
I have watched all the MCU movies - ok I'm lying I never watched the Hulk - and even liked some of the terrible ones. I can have a great time with Thor 2!

But it's still inexcusable to not have, like, a movie. The tie-ins were terrible in the actual film, and that's a big problem. There's nothing wrong with taking small elements of some movies and expanding on them in side projects, which has been done very well with the shows. Keeping the conflict established in the opening act on the side so we can have this is highly questionable imo
 

RandV

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Just finished it, was okay but I agree the whole conflict part was weak. Like sure, Wakanda is this hidden kingdom in Africa with all the vibranium and tech way above everyone else so no one wants to mess with them. But now there's this underwater kingdom originating from a seemingly small Mayan tribe 500 years ago - the small pox survivors at that, and they're threatening to go to war with... the entire "surface world"? And if Wakanda doesn't join them they're first? That's just a stretch from so many different angles.
 

mattihp

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Aug 2, 2004
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Just finished it, was okay but I agree the whole conflict part was weak. Like sure, Wakanda is this hidden kingdom in Africa with all the vibranium and tech way above everyone else so no one wants to mess with them. But now there's this underwater kingdom originating from a seemingly small Mayan tribe 500 years ago - the small pox survivors at that, and they're threatening to go to war with... the entire "surface world"? And if Wakanda doesn't join them they're first? That's just a stretch from so many different angles.
It IS in line with the Namor of the comics, but this guy is a completly different dude so I don't quite get it.
 

mattihp

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Namor isn't a "completely different dude." He just has a different origin. You're over thinking it.
Maybe in a movie it would be too hard to be as stubborn as he is in the comics. Given this origin made him more human when it comes to right and wrong. Not as black and white when it comes to justice. He would bring nothing to the table should this earth assemble a crew for the Illuminati.
 

NyQuil

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Jan 5, 2005
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I think it was a bit uneven.

Some of the performances were certainly at a level beyond the typical Marvel fare, particularly Shuri, Ramonda, Nakiya and Okoye. It was neat to see some character development for M'Baku, taking over from Forrest Whittaker's Zuri as the primary counselor to the royal family.

They certainly handled the death of T'Challa with the requisite amount of grief and respect.

I found Ironheart to be a little bit awkward in terms of trying to be the cool teenaged Peter Parker type Ironwoman who is also the comic relief, but often introductions of new characters can be a bit challenging to hit the notes right.

A little bit more backstory in terms of her experience as a vigilante/hero would have made some of the later battle sequences against an immortal warrior a little more believable.

Valentina was a delight in just the right amount of limited usage.

Namor wasn't bad, in terms of being generally likeable and sympathetic despite the rather absurd plot. Their shared "slavery" pasts was a bit of a clumsy political messaging cudgel at times but it could have been handled a lot worse.

Conflicts have started up over lesser disputes, so while it was a bit silly, no doubt Wakanda was seen as the surface world's pre-eminent power so it makes sense to some extent that you might want to pre-emptively weaken them while the succession was still in the air.

The part that stretched the imagination for me is when the two rulers show up on their flying ship and tell everyone to stop fighting.

"Excuse me? Couldn't you two have figured this out before a whole bunch of us died?"

In any event, it was neat to see Killmonger again, Jordan did a solid job in representing his viewpoint, and Shuri's untapped grief and rage was clearly vulnerable to his beliefs.

I also couldn't help but laugh at the blue Mezo-Atlanteans because I keep seeing Avatar: the Way of Water as they are swimming around.

I think the bar for what a good Marvel film is has dropped of late, so it still stands as one of the better recent offerings. Overall, I think it was a stronger film than the latest Thor, the Dr. Strange sequel, Shang-Chi, and was roughly on par with the latest Spider Man film in terms of blending action with an emotionally resonant story.

But the more far-fetched the comic-based storylines, the more difficult it is to situate them in the "real world" which is what Marvel did so masterfully in the earlier Phases to create that suspension of disbelief in terms of imagining how our current society would handle these fantastic challenges and threats.
 
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NyQuil

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Jan 5, 2005
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Didn’t Killmonger die in BP1??

You're in this thread but you haven't watched the film yet?

I don't do spoilers because I just stay out of threads once something is released until I have a chance to see it.

Sorry about that. In any event, if you want to know:

Killmonger appears as Shuri's vision after she takes the heart-shaped herb to become the new Black Panther and they discuss his legacy and whether she'll follow in his footsteps or in T'Challa's.
 

x Tame Impala

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I enjoyed the first one but have mostly checkout out of the MCU. I wanted to know if the second was good or not
 

AtlantaWhaler

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Jul 3, 2009
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Saw it in the theater recently. I'm a Marvel geek but took my time getting to this one. After a somewhat disappointing Phase 4 (still pissed after Love and Thunder), I actually liked this one. A decent movie to end the Phase.
 

S E P H

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I finally saw this one after taking a break from anything Marvel. Nothing will ever beat The Eternals in terms of being just an utter disaster, but this move is definitely close to it. Easily the second-worst movie of the franchise and a big part of it is what is the point of this movie? There is none, like the last Fantastic Beasts was just two hours of people talking in different locations, this movie was simply that with some pathetic cgi battle thrown in at the end (just get in fighter jets and attack and get wrecked is the only plan Wakanda has?). I quite like Letitia Wright as an actress, but they did her dirty in this film and made her just pathetic and pointless (plus she's like Black Panther for only 5 minutes of screen time). Then they made the water Aztec kingdom so OP'd with freakin' Pejorative Slured powers that it just doesn't match up. The water boss has a crazy ancient rode that defines all physics to man and wing shoes that make him faster than light? WTF?! That's probably the worst part, in great movies, the writers and director do a good job showing "why" something is important. I had zero emotions whatsoever for the villains in this film. I said to myself, "oh, look another minority civilisation that is super OP'd that wants to take down leg creatures like in the page from The Little Mermaid."

Not having any emotional investment in villains made this a snoozefest and it gets worse from there. The Queen was just a cringe feast and another character that was absolutely ruined leading up to one of the spoilers of the film. Then the main female guard who was a badarse in the first film gets rejected and removed from any character building that took place in the other films. Then they did Martin Freeman dirty with his four lines in the entire 2+ hours of scenes. What is the serious point of him? Just to cater to the white folks? I also consider it pretty hilarious that of all MIT students, the black one is supposedly the one with the "greatest knowledge and inventions" out of her class just so she can fit the movie's theme. At least Love and Thunder was a fun film even with all the immature level forced jokes and zero plot line in it. The biggest issue is why this movie was made, it's like a Simpson or Family Guy episode where something major happens yet everything works itself in the end. These are what I call fake cliffhangers and it is there to simply keep the plot line open, stationary, and in a present-day atmosphere so they can tell more jokes in the next episode and milk the hell out of it. That description is pretty much dead on accurate of what this movie was. A stationary film that had a 3.6 roentgen reading, yet I am the one who is two hours out of time.
 
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