NFL: Bill Belichick without Tom Brady

[EpochLink]

What was Don Shula's record without his two Hall of Fame QBs?

From 1980 to 1982, he went with David Woodley mostly under centre with Don Strock as the back up. 2 playoff appearance, 26-14-1 regular season record, AFC Championship win and an appearance in Super Bowl 17.

This was between Griese and Marino.

 

[Terry Yake]

it wasn't just BB and brady. it was guys like ernie adams, ivan fears, dante scarnnechia, and josh mcdaniels that all played key roles in why the pats so good for so long. those guys all took care of the offense, which allowed BB to focus on the defense

brady was never going to "do it all by himself" (see 2019) and BB obviously wasn't going to have the same amount of success without the greatest QB of all time leading the offense. the pats biggest issue in recent years has been BB's lousy decisions as GM

 

[LightningStorm]

The problem with the OP's premise (and several others in this thread) is the projecting the BB of today with the BB of the past, most notably of the early-mid 2000's. Belichick is clearly washed up now, yet people act like he was washed up all along with Brady covering it up. But BB's heyday in the first 3 SB's, the defense played a bigger role than the offense, and has been forgotten as an all time great defense. Of course Brady was important to their 3 SB wins, which is why better defenses at the time such as the Ravens and Bucs only won a single SB instead of 3. BB wasn't as dominant of a coach in the 2010's, and Brady did play a bigger role in those 3 SB's with him being better. But we can't project the BB of today backwards. For example, I don't think he'd be able to go 11-5 with Matt Cassel today like he did back in 2008, where they actually won one more game that year than with Brady back the next season.

TL;DR: the Bill Belichick of today is not the Bill Belichick of the past.

 

[pockets]

It’s not just Bill without Brady, it’s also Bill the GM without Ernie Adams, or a competent right hand man / director of player personnel like Pioli, Licht, or Caserio…

 

[SirClintonPortis]

It’s not just Bill without Brady, it’s also Bill the GM without Ernie Adams, or a competent right hand man / director of player personnel like Pioli, Licht, or Caserio…

I don't think Pioli was better than the baesline.

Scott Pioli - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He might have went maifia esque by possibly bugging Todd Haley's phone. If he was any good, Andy Reid wouldn't be in KC.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

The problem with the OP's premise (and several others in this thread) is the projecting the BB of today with the BB of the past, most notably of the early-mid 2000's. Belichick is clearly washed up now, yet people act like he was washed up all along with Brady covering it up. But BB's heyday in the first 3 SB's, the defense played a bigger role than the offense, and has been forgotten as an all time great defense. Of course Brady was important to their 3 SB wins, which is why better defenses at the time such as the Ravens and Bucs only won a single SB instead of 3. BB wasn't as dominant of a coach in the 2010's, and Brady did play a bigger role in those 3 SB's with him being better. But we can't project the BB of today backwards. For example, I don't think he'd be able to go 11-5 with Matt Cassel today like he did back in 2008, where they actually won one more game that year than with Brady back the next season.

TL;DR: the Bill Belichick of today is not the Bill Belichick of the past.

I don't believe Belichick lost his gameplanning obession. He adapted from 80s football up to the present with not much loss. If anything, he might overestimate his own gameplanning prowess ability to cover for lack of talent.

It's his grocery shopping tactics, especially at the draft, that have been nothing short of vanilla at best to horrible at worst. His pro player trades have been okay to great depending on the asset.

But you can tell he doesn't value elite athletes when scouting. The defense lacks speed to catch a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. The RBs would be fine if Brady was there, but you need more than a Burkhead or James White without Brady. The WRs need no explanation. They ones he picked by draft mostly suck. Jakobi Meyers leaving was basically a back breaker for the Patriots O, as he was the last competent threat they had.

For a guy who had Lawrence Taylor at his disposal once upon a time, he hasn't found anyone like that recently. Judon came out of Baltimore.

 

[John Price]

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't believe Belichick lost his gameplanning obession. He adapted from 80s football up to the present with not much loss. If anything, he might overestimate his own gameplanning prowess ability to cover for lack of talent.

It's his grocery shopping tactics, especially at the draft, that have been nothing short of vanilla at best to horrible at worst. His pro player trades have been okay to great depending on the asset.

But you can tell he doesn't value elite athletes when scouting. The defense lacks speed to catch a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. The RBs would be fine if Brady was there, but you need more than a Burkhead or James White without Brady. The WRs need no explanation. They ones he picked by draft mostly suck. Jakobi Meyers leaving was basically a back breaker for the Patriots O, as he was the last competent threat they had.

For a guy who had Lawrence Taylor at his disposal once upon a time, he hasn't found anyone like that recently. Judon came out of Baltimore.

Can tell he misses his assistants in Josh, Scharnachia, etc. Defence getting killed by the lack of offense in terms of their mistakes.

I think you can see Kraft tell BB that he needs to give up the GM duties. Otherwise, they need to part ways.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Can tell he misses his assistants in Josh, Scharnachia, etc. Defence getting killed by the lack of offense in terms of their mistakes.

I think you can see Kraft tell BB that he needs to give up the GM duties. Otherwise, they need to part ways.

He needs to go to a team with talent and a bad coach.. Chargers.

 

[Barnum]

The new Bill Belichick without Tom Brady, reminds me of the old Bill Belichick before Tom Brady. In other words, there's not much to think about and his win/loss record sucks.

Bill Belichick couldn't carry Don Shula's jock strap.

Wah wah

New fan, I presume?

 

[ORRFForever]

Wah wah

New fan, I presume?

LOL!

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Want to feel bad for them but I don’t. They had it great for 2 decades and their fans never missed a opportunity to tell everyone about it. Humble pie is best served ice cold

 

[PeteWorrell]

In for the long haul.

 

[Barnum]

LOL!

Yeah….I bet I am right.

Do you remember the old days? You remember those first 3 SB rings? Any NE fan whining in 2023 that Brady did it all, wasn’t there, They most certainly do not understand nor understood the game back then.

I’m sure Ty Law, Adam V and a plethora of other Patriots thinks like you .… Keep your Felger and Mazz like opinions back with the goofs in the HF Boards Boston Bruins Clown section. They appreciate the youthful dumbassery hot takes more than me.

 

[Barnum]

Want to feel bad for them but I don’t. They had it great for 2 decades and their fans never missed a opportunity to tell everyone about it. Humble pie is best served ice cold

As you shouldn’t, don’t feel bad for any of us. Most fans nowadays do not know how bad it was until Belichick showed up or more importantly when Kraft bought the team. As a very young’n, I remember Plunket as the Pats QB, so I go way back with this team.

What NE did for 20 years was awesome but alot fans now, forgot or never experienced the bad times so they pout like little babies. No other team did what we did constantly for 20 years, most of us should be happy fans for life instead of bitches….

Edit: spelling errors…sorry I am dyslexic

 

[Barnum]

I wrote this in the Week 5 thread:

The Patriot Way?! Naw more like Tom Brady dragging these clowns to cushy jobs way. Sorta like how Peyton Manning kept dragging Adam Gase to head coaching jobs cause he was some QB guru in Denver. Now you have Tom Brady be ‘the man’ while his underlings like Josh McDaniels, Bill O’Brien, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, Charlie Weis, Romeo Crenel, Eric Mangini absolutely bomb when they get head coaching gigs.

Brady has been dragging these guys to jobs while they can’t do shit, also as for Belicheck…this man is on borrowed time. He has not done much since Brady left while Tom has won another chip. Bill needs to stop being a GM and concentrate on being a head coach. But what will that do? The Patriots don’t have much talent like they used too, all those former players go to free agency, get the bag then proceed to play like dog shit (Trent Brown, JC Jackson for example) then come back to the Patriots to play like they used too or try too, f*** Trent Browns fat ass.

Mac Jones is not being coached well, you think Bill O’Brien can turn him around? He should be thanking Tom Brady for giving him a job cause Brady was able to mask O’Briens ‘play calling’.

This Patriot Way ended when Brady left, he was THE PATRIOT WAY. Bills record without Brady at QB is under .500

He should be thanking Tom for the 2 decades.

Dumbest thing I ever read about the Patriots.

Signed: Adam V, Varbel, McGinnest, Ty Law, Teddy ”mother f***ing” Bruchi, Harrison, Welker, Brown, White, Faulk, Wilfork, Mankins, Light, McCourty, Seymour, Miloy, Gronk, Koppen, Edelman, Slater, Gostkowski, Hightower, Moss, Gilmore, and Revis.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

it wasn't just BB and brady. it was guys like ernie adams, ivan fears, dante scarnnechia, and josh mcdaniels that all played key roles in why the pats so good for so long. those guys all took care of the offense, which allowed BB to focus on the defense

brady was never going to "do it all by himself" (see 2019) and BB obviously wasn't going to have the same amount of success without the greatest QB of all time leading the offense. the pats biggest issue in recent years has been BB's lousy decisions as GM

Their passing strategies have always had Belichick's fingerprints on them. But there has been a significant drop off in psss protection without Scarneccia

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Dumbest thing I ever read about the Patriots.

Signed: Adam V, Varbel, McGinnest, Ty Law, Teddy ”mother f***ing” Bruchi, Harrison, Welker, Brown, White, Faulk, Wilfork, Mankins, Light, McCourty, Seymour, Miloy, Gronk, Koppen, Edelman, Slater, Gostkowski, Hightower, Moss, Gilmore, and Revis.

Pats had players but let's say the utterly toxic coaching tree makes me think Belichick is a real life Jenova.

Jenova

Jenova was a Calamity that fell from the sky a long, long time ago, and tried to destroy the planet... Jenova is an extraterrestrial life-form in the Final Fantasy VII series who serves as a major antagonist; experiments conducted on its cells have produced many of the setting's adversaries, key...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

 

[Hasbro]

Pats had players but let's say the utterly toxic coaching tree makes me think Belichick is a real life Jenova.

Jenova

Jenova was a Calamity that fell from the sky a long, long time ago, and tried to destroy the planet... Jenova is an extraterrestrial life-form in the Final Fantasy VII series who serves as a major antagonist; experiments conducted on its cells have produced many of the setting's adversaries, key...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

Small Pox infested blankets.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Small Pox infested blankets.

Josh McDaniels 1.0. Tebow the 1st rounder. LOL. You wonder if McD really wanted an offense or if he was there to make sure the Broncos couldn't eliminate the Pats like they did in 2006. But then Denver got a mulligan because Peyton Manning landed in Denver.

Romeo Crennel in Cleveland.

Joe Judge in NY.

And now, after a peak, Vrabel in Tenn and Daboll in NY.

Bill O' Brien nuking the pre-Stroud Texans.

Pioli wasn't good in KC but then that opened the door for Andy Reid and ultimately the current Mahomes era.

Then there was that coach in Tampa before Arians....

 

[Hasbro]

Josh McDaniels 1.0. Tebow the 1st rounder. LOL. You wonder if McD really wanted an offense or if he was there to make sure the Broncos couldn't eliminate the Pats like they did in 2006. But then Denver got a mulligan because Peyton Manning landed in Denver.

Romeo Crennel in Cleveland.

Joe Judge in NY.

And now, after a peak, Vrabel in Tenn and Daboll in NY.

Bill O' Brien nuking the pre-Stroud Texans.

Pioli wasn't good in KC but then that opened the door for Andy Reid and ultimately the current Mahomes era.

Then there was that coach in Tampa before Arians....

Josh McDaniels is Ken Bianchi to Belichick’s Angelo Buono.

 

[Voight]

Time to crown Reid the modern era GOAT head coach. He had success with numerous qb’s even Jeff Garcia

Nope.

 

[John Price]

Patriots timeline: How New England fell from Tom Brady and Super Bowls to Mac Jones and 2-10

On Feb. 3, 2019, the Pats won their sixth championship under Bill Belichick. It's been a slow descent to their current 2-10 record. Here's how it happened.

www.espn.com

 

[tTheVeganWoofMate]

Bill Belichick without Tom Brady

 

[DaaaaB's]

Josh McDaniels 1.0. Tebow the 1st rounder. LOL. You wonder if McD really wanted an offense or if he was there to make sure the Broncos couldn't eliminate the Pats like they did in 2006. But then Denver got a mulligan because Peyton Manning landed in Denver.

Romeo Crennel in Cleveland.

Joe Judge in NY.

And now, after a peak, Vrabel in Tenn and Daboll in NY.

Bill O' Brien nuking the pre-Stroud Texans.

Pioli wasn't good in KC but then that opened the door for Andy Reid and ultimately the current Mahomes era.

Then there was that coach in Tampa before Arians....

Don't forget about Matt Patricia. He was almost as bad as McVisor.