Speculation: Bilingual Coaches and GM Candidate List Part 4
- Thread starter Lshap
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This is why analytics are important and that they always support the eye-test. Weber has always been a disaster at zone-exits/entries as well as defending off the rush for years. Without relying on great partners like Suter, Josi (and Markov to an extent) his game dropped off significantly to the point where he was a liability.
Great shot but that’s about it. This trade was also made at a time where Subban was coming off a recent Norris and consistent 50-60 point seasons before going to the finals with Nashville.
sampollock
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one of the days we can talk of the actual hiring
that day will be the start of long threads.
Jeff we await your signing
that day will be the start of long threads.
Jeff we await your signing
Schooner Guy
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This is garbage analysis. Weber has an extremely high hockey IQ to go with his hockey abilities and physical attributes. It's the reason he always got selected to Canada's top teams on the international stage (Olympics and World Cup). He was always one of Canada's leaders in ice time and we're talking some of the best hockey rosters ever assembled.
I didn't notice Suter, Josi and Markov by his side when Weber was a major reason we got to the Stanley Cup Final just a few months ago.
I haven't even mentioned Weber's amazing leadership, intangibles and the respect his teammates and opponents have for him.
I thought the Habs were crazy to trade Weber for Subban in 2016 but in hindsight not many today try to say the Habs lost that trade.
I will say that Weber played well in this years playoffs but that still doesn’t change my overall analysis. His giveaways and lack of ability to exit the zone with control while under pressure (via breakout pass or skating) is very apparent.
It’s actually a major reason why scoring woes and also why we miss Price puck handling. When forwards don’t get the puck in the neutral zone and/or have to help defend below the hashmarks for extended periods of time, it kills offence.
This is not to mention him getting beat off the rush and spotty D coverage. Many times he will not even go into the corner to battle even if the puck is on his strong side.
You can pick a Habs game at random from the last 4 years and analyze all of the errors. His advance stats from many different sources support this analysis as well.
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Weber was a huge disappointment until the playoff run. I'm happy he had that run or his most memorable moments with the habs would have been breaking Gallagher's hand twice.
I will never understand people who to this day still maintain that we won that trade....like you said, if it wasn't for that playoff run, his time here was pretty unremarkable. To think what else we could have gotten for a young Norris trophy winner....sigh.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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I just don't understand the argument considering both teams literally go the same out of each player (Cinderella cup run where the D-man was the best or 2nd best D-man on the roster, a couple of sub-Norris caliber seasons). Nashville was able to clear Subban's cap hit and get a couple of 2nds, and we don't know what the Habs plan moving forward with Weber will be after this season.
There's no basis to argue that the Habs "won".
Schooner Guy
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Since the trade, Subban has 0.506 points per game and is -22. Weber has 0.531 points per game and is +41. I don't know any hockey people who would say Subban is better defensively. Both players made it to the Stanley Cup Final athough PK had a stronger supporting cast. Both have dealt with significant injuries. In terms of intangibles, Weber wins by a landslide. He's adored by teammates while PK seems to wear out his welcome.
I hated the trade when it happened but got a new appreciation for Weber's value to a team through his great smarts, physical play, positional play and being a great leader. I fully understand why Team Canada brass gave him such a key role on their powerhouse gold medal winning teams.
Glad to see PK is playing a little better so far this season. I thought he might get bought out last offseason.
Schooner Guy
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That's the key statement right there. Great job by Preds management in clearing his cap hit. They did it just in time. Habs wish they still had Weber and his cap hit playing for them.
Weber of that one playoff run, yes, Weber from the 2017-2020 regular seasons? No please.
Schooner Guy
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It’s not about Weber but the opportunity cost of leveraging Subban at a peak price, as your post stated. Bergevin flubbed his trade negotiations by becoming overly obsessed with Weber’s aura and ultimately cornering himself by limiting potential suitors.
Everytime I go back and look at certain decisions by Bergevin, I relive the context and circumstances attached to particular events and it’s not a pleasant experience.
Let’s shift our focus to the new GM. Hope is the best balm right now.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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Huh? Weber was only bad in last years regular season...
The Subban/Weber thing for me, started out as awful, and was made for Therrien, the absolute wrong reason.
The trade was a bit of a wash...........4 quarters for a loonie...
The idea or fanboys myth that MB won all his trades, is a hilarious bit of comedy for me....ask Stevie Y....
The new guy in charge is actually a long time hockey guy, that came up through the ranks and knows how it is done....
Hard not to be impatient with the last 10 years of ouch, but we have to be a bit more patient...apathy is creeping in for me in a big big way....
One thing for certain, happy we have Gorton....
Leon Lucius Black
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- Nov 5, 2007
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Weber himself was not a huge disappointment, the construction of the roster and its results over Weber's time here was the disappointment.
Weber had 41 goals and 104 points in 197 regular season games, which is an average of 17 goals and 42 points over a full season. He was solid defensively for the most part despite having to carry partners like Chiarot, Jordie Benn, Victor Mete, David Schlemko and Karl Alzner for most of his time here. On top of this, who knows how long he was battling through his injuries for.
A team trading for Weber at his age should've been making moves to go all-in, instead of letting key players like Radulov/Markov walk and hoping to win when your #1 C was Philip Danault. Anyone who watches hockey would've known Weber's biggest weakness was his transition game, instead of trying to find a puck mover to put with him Bergevin went after guys like Alzner/Chiarot.
MeanMugging91
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- Jan 6, 2016
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So is the first round of interviews done yet? Any word on who's making it to the in-person interviews?
sampollock
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angusyoung
Back in the day, I was always horny!
Vachon23
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In the NFL, the teams are saying the candidates that they interviewing on there twitter account.
Vachon23
Registered User
François Gagnon report that the 2nd round started today and will finish tomorrow. Gorton is in New York right know and not with the team and he’s meeting with the candidates in person. They are 4-6 candidates left and they will probably have a 3rd round with the 2 finalists
Mandalorian
Screw the tank, just WIN BABY!
If Gagnon his not bullshitting all of this, he is actually less useless than Renaud as an insider.
Ummm... looking at the habs roster, I'd say that anything the habs thought about roster decisions, doing the opposite would've been the right answer
sampollock
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