Biggest free agent disappointment this year?

[Regal]

I'm talking about playing at a starter level, not how many seasons he was the starter. He played at a starter level one of those seasons.

6 years 36 million with a flat cap for a 30 year old with a career .910 SV%. One of the dumbest contracts in the league. There are some contracts that aren't terrible when signed that turn out terrible. This one was terrible when it was signed. Markstrom was a Vezina contender in theory only last season, not in reality. Treliving must've watched too much talk radio when deciding to offer that contract.

Markstrom was absolutely an average starter quality goaltender the first year and a half he was the starting goaltender in Vancouver and was great the other year and a half. And he did play well enough to be in the Vezina conversation last year. He was the Canucks MVP two years in a row and I don't think I've seen another Vancouver fan who watched him game in game out who didn't believe he was worth 6 million this offseason even if 6 years seemed long. Markstrom started the year great and seems to have struggled after injury.

 

[Regal]

I'd Markstrom was a high end starter last year, and half of the season prior. He was pretty mediocre for the first year and a half that he was starting for the Canucks.

I'd say he was generally a solid starter that first year and a half. Wasn't stealing games much and had a few too many hiccups, but was generally giving good enough goaltending to win if the team in front of him was decent.

 

[BCNate]

I'd say he was generally a solid starter that first year and a half. Wasn't stealing games much and had a few too many hiccups, but was generally giving good enough goaltending to win if the team in front of him was decent.

Solid is probably fair, but he was only at a 6x6 type contract level for the past year and a half.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Surprised Markstrom has more votes than Holtby. Maybe it's because most of HF expected nothing from Brayden and knew it was a horrible deal to begin with? That's the only explanation I can gather because this guy has been downright horrible and makes $4.3M a year.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Markstrom was absolutely an average starter quality goaltender the first year and a half he was the starting goaltender in Vancouver and was great the other year and a half. And he did play well enough to be in the Vezina conversation last year. He was the Canucks MVP two years in a row and I don't think I've seen another Vancouver fan who watched him game in game out who didn't believe he was worth 6 million this offseason even if 6 years seemed long. Markstrom started the year great and seems to have struggled after injury.

Between 2016-17 and 2018-19 seasons (the three seasons prior to last season), there were 65 goalies who played 2000 or more minutes. Markstrom is 32nd in SV% and 31 in GSAA. Thats not a starter. Thats a good back up. Last season among goalies who played 1500 or more minutes, he was 12th in SV% and 11th in GSAA. Markstrom has never been a top 1/3 of the league starter. Last season he was a slightly above average starter.

For some reason, it's as if only Canadian teams can play bad defense. It does seem a little weird how the bad defense in front of them excuse is talked about with Markstrom, Hellebuyck, Price, and Andersen more than any four goalies in the league. Surely there are other teams in the league that have bad defense in front of the goalie, and the numbers these goalies put up are an accurate reflection of how well they play. I really don't know what it is. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I watch the whole league, but I also find stats to be very indicative of how well someone plays.

When I see these arguments about how Hellebuyck actually hasn't been inconsistent for his whole career because it was the defense's fault the seasons he played poorly, or Price actually is the best goalie in the league because Montreal has a historically bad defense (that you can't find anywhere in their defensive stats) makes the best goalie in the league stop the puck at a rate that the best goalie in the league shouldn't be stopping the puck at, or how Markstrom put up slightly above average numbers last season but Vancouver's defense was actually so bad that slightly above average numbers makes him a Vezina contender, I'm struggling to see what I'm missing.

And I'm not blaming the whole country or every Canadian team, but when I think of this exact discussion, it always comes back to these players and these fan bases with the excuses for the statistics not matching the rhetoric.

 

[banks]

Hall has only one solitary goal during Buffalo's 18 game losing streak.

He's not just the biggest free agent disappointment this season. He's the biggest disappointment, full stop.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Between 2016-17 and 2018-19 seasons (the three seasons prior to last season), there were 65 goalies who played 2000 or more minutes. Markstrom is 32nd in SV% and 31 in GSAA. Thats not a starter. Thats a good back up. Last season among goalies who played 1500 or more minutes, he was 12th in SV% and 11th in GSAA. Markstrom has never been a top 1/3 of the league starter. Last season he was a slightly above average starter.

For some reason, it's as if only Canadian teams can play bad defense. It does seem a little weird how the bad defense in front of them excuse is talked about with Markstrom, Hellebuyck, Price, and Andersen more than any four goalies in the league. Surely there are other teams in the league that have bad defense in front of the goalie, and the numbers these goalies put up are an accurate reflection of how well they play. I really don't know what it is. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I watch the whole league, but I also find stats to be very indicative of how well someone plays.

When I see these arguments about how Hellebuyck actually hasn't been inconsistent for his whole career because it was the defense's fault the seasons he played poorly, or Price actually is the best goalie in the league because Montreal has a historically bad defense (that you can't find anywhere in their defensive stats) makes the best goalie in the league stop the puck at a rate that the best goalie in the league shouldn't be stopping the puck at, or how Markstrom put up slightly above average numbers last season but Vancouver's defense was actually so bad that slightly above average numbers makes him a Vezina contender, I'm struggling to see what I'm missing.

And I'm not blaming the whole country or every Canadian team, but when I think of this exact discussion, it always comes back to these players and these fan bases with the excuses for the statistics not matching the rhetoric.

Really not that hard to understand when you look at the underlying numbers. They've been posted numerous times before so do your own research since you seem to have a take that is not indicative of what most people here think. Ie. that Markstrom is a good goalie and last year was an exceptional goalie.

To recap a few things off memory:
- Vancouver probably gave up top 3 HDSC last year
- They had one of the worst transition defenses in the whole league which led to a ridiculous amount of odd man breaks.

I would love to see a team comparison of the top 10 goalies ahead of him in SV% and GAA (is this like 20 years ago where we can only use basic stats to judge a player?) and compare the defensive structures/underlying defensive metrics to Vancouver - I think your answer would lie there.

Did you watch the playoffs last year? They were out shot like 45-15 in almost every game against St Louis and Vegas and still won games purely because of him. There's a reason qualified analysts had him 4th in Vezina votes last year yet you say he was a slightly above average starter.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Really not that hard to understand when you look at the underlying numbers. They've been posted numerous times before so do your own research since you seem to have a take that is not indicative of what most people here think. Ie. that Markstrom is a good goalie and last year was an exceptional goalie.

To recap a few things off memory:
- Vancouver probably gave up top 3 HDSC last year
- They had one of the worst transition defenses in the whole league which led to a ridiculous amount of odd man breaks.

I would love to see a team comparison of the top 10 goalies ahead of him in SV% and GAA (is this like 20 years ago where we can only use basic stats to judge a player?) and compare the defensive structures/underlying defensive metrics to Vancouver - I think your answer would lie there.

Did you watch the playoffs last year? They were out shot like 45-15 in almost every game against St Louis and Vegas and still won games purely because of him. There's a reason qualified analysts had him 4th in Vezina votes last year yet you say he was a slightly above average starter.

This post isn't very well reasoned.

You make a claim, which no one has any idea if it's true, yet don't want to post any proof for it. Apparently it's my job to prove your argument. You then further speculate about stats, which calls into question whether your statistical claims are just more speculation or actually true.

There is no onus on me to prove your argument.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Surprised Markstrom has more votes than Holtby. Maybe it's because most of HF expected nothing from Brayden and knew it was a horrible deal to begin with? That's the only explanation I can gather because this guy has been downright horrible and makes $4.3M a year.

I think most people recognize the difference between a two year deal and a six year deal. Markstrom is far superior to Holtby but Holtby has only one more year left after this year.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I’d say Dadonov, would rather have 1 year of Hall than this current version of Dadonov

 

[Byron Bitz]

Hall is disappointing but at least it’s a one year deal so they aren’t stuck with him and might get a 2nd for him at the deadline. These other teams are stuck with bad contracts.

 

[Connor McConnor]

This post isn't very well reasoned.

You make a claim, which no one has any idea if it's true, yet don't want to post any proof for it. Apparently it's my job to prove your argument. You then further speculate about stats, which calls into question whether your statistical claims are just more speculation or actually true.

There is no onus on me to prove your argument.

Why are you acting like you're smart? You originally claimed Markstrom was a slightly above average goaltender last year when he came 4th in Vezina votes without any statistical evidence. You claim that the Canucks defensive structure was no worse than other teams in the league while clearly not watching a single game and again, without any actual statistical evidence.

In the end, you were the one that originally insinuated something that went against the majority/common knowledge, as evidenced by the payday Markstrom got, his Vezina rankings and discussions on this board previously which easily puts him higher than "slightly above average goaltender". That means you are the one who is liable for doing your own research before posting such baseless claims.

You are clearly someone that I do not want to get into a debate with because based on how you addressed your original post - it's not going to work. But a few numbers to support what people who actually watched Canuck games last year would have known without looking at the stat sheet can pull up in 10 minutes of research:

1) Canucks had the worst expected goals/game in the entire NHL
2) They had the 2nd worst save differential in the NHL
3) Out of 22 qualified goalies who played more than 40 games he faced the most shots against per game, made the most saves per game and had the 5th worst shot distance against (this means he faced really close shots if you need me to translate)
4) He was the only goaltender in the league who didn't give up a clear sight goal all season
5) Canucks gave up 3rd highest scoring chances against in the NHL and 4th highest high danger chances

 

[Stephen]

Roll the footage of Pegula and Adams speculating that Taylor Hall makes the Buffalo Sabres a Stanley Cup contender.

 

[North Cole]

Surprised Markstrom has more votes than Holtby. Maybe it's because most of HF expected nothing from Brayden and knew it was a horrible deal to begin with? That's the only explanation I can gather because this guy has been downright horrible and makes $4.3M a year.

I think its because he's just there to be expansion fodder. Gives them a goalie that meets the requirements while they protect Demko

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Hall is the obvious one but since everyone has already pointed that out, there should also be some attention to Markstrom floundering this year. Calgary fans have always prided themselves on having a solid dcore and it is better than Vancouver so why is Markstrom look unspectacular? He stood on his head the first 15 games of the season but lately is really underperforming for an expensive goalie.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I think he was starting to find is groove, and coming into a new team with a new system is a bit of an adjustment, but probably been arguably our 4th best Defenseman so far this season, I feel Martinez and Theodore have been better (or thought Teddy's been a bit quieter than normal) and Whitecloud with 50 NHL Games under his belt I would say all around has been our best defenseman. He hasn't been a complete trainwreck or anything but for what we are paying him, we need him to be better than our 4th best Defenceman. There's still time for him to get that groove going, and be who we expect him to be, and I might be a bit concerned if this was a normal season, but in this short sample I'd say he's been dissappointing at least comparatively.

He's light years ahead of Hall.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Pietrangelo deserves more love here.

Hall hasn’t worked out for the Sabres, but it’s a one year contract and they’ll get a free second round pick and a prospect for him at the deadline.

If Petro doesn’t return to from that’s a big contract on the books for a long time. He’s been better than Hall, but the contracts are important.

 

[Fatass]

If the Sabres get a decent return for Hall at TDL, then I will change my vote.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Surprised Hall is no 1. They are gonna trade him for some assets and it remains a great signing. Holtby and Greiss have been more devastating signings.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.