Post-Game Talk: Big Game, So Naturally Leafs Lose: Leafs 1, Rangers 7

[thewave]

I'm never sure how it starts (and I can't be bothered to to through several pages of each thread to figure it out everytime it happens) all I know is that far too often the topic somehow becomes Bozak (sprinkle in some Grabovski in there) and I'd have to think that after so many months and posts, the conversation must be redundant...yet here we are....again.

It's there because smart hockey people know we gave up three engines for a coach that doesn't get his teams play style. They are not his type of guys.

We have a ******* group of guys not a team under this system.

 

[Rare Jewel]

This was my line up this morning:

Some didn't like it.

I don't see how this line up would have done worse than what we saw tonight with Carlyle's line up.

1-Bozak Kessel JVR

2-Kadri Lupul Kulemin

3-Holland Clarkson Mcclement

4-Gardiner Orr Raymond

Dion Gunnar
Franson Gleason
Rielly Fraser

Even if you don't like Gardiner, Is putting him at 4th line centre the best way to optimize his value?

It just really can't be.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Agreed.

As long as Kessel's been here he's gotten a pass for not playing physically. I understand he's our biggest investment and he's gotta protect himself but it's no wonder he never gets hurt, the guy goes whole games without touching anybody. With how much ice time he gets, I'm starting to wonder if he's a big part of the reason we give up so many shots. Over and over again, Kessel shies away from contact or gives the puck away or refuses to get to the boards first and we lose possession. Very rarely does the top line maintain offensive pressure because once it gets to Kessel it's usually either a quick low-percentage shot or a blind, forced pass in order to avoid contact. I know he's not the only one to blame but man he's frustrating when he's not scoring.

Sounds a lot like Selanne. Now that his offensive number has taken a huge dive, he doesn't look very versatile. Regardless, he did have a long and productive career on the Ducks. I don't really see much of an issue with Kessel, but those around him.

 

[saffronleaf]

I was pretty upset about not being able to watch the game tonight. But it seems like it was a good thing that I didn't get the chance to watch the game tonight.

We all have bad nights. Lets hope that this will be the worst game of the season and we learn from it.

 

[Jtabo]

Chicago's 6-0-3 since we embarassed them December 14th. Here's to hoping for a similar wake up call for our boys.

 

[Jtabo]

This all comes down to the players.....no leadership .....no leadership, no leadership......

JVR laughing on the ice talking to a Ranger player when we are getting our ass kick.....if I was his team mate I would have two handed him.....

Same goes for Kessel as he was seen laughing as well.....

Until we dramatically change the teams attitude we will continue to be a bubble team....we have just signed two players to a total of 15M per and they are part of the problem.....Dion is no where near worth 7M and seeing him wearing that C on his jersey makes me ill..

Then Mr I do not like to stop as it means that I have to start again.....get your head out of your ass.....and play for your money.

Watch who took hits tonight to make a play.....not our fearless captain, not our highest paid player next year.....they were MIA....

Lets find a way to work in Dion Phaneuf in my post, maybe the only player to show up tonight, to fit my never ending agenda of slandering him at every turn?

 

[080]

I don't know if it's been said yet and I'm not about to read through 16 pages. But can we get some players that want to win?

I'm tired of seeing us lose puck battles, stand around holding our ****, and generally just look like ****. If we lost 7-1 but went out and played hard every shift, I'd still complain, yeah, but at least we'd be able to say that our team did its best.

D'Amigo and Holland need more ice time. They seem to actually care. Raymond and Kadri both need to be benched next game (and Raymond should be traded to be honest -- while he still has some value).

I don't understand how this is the same team that took Boston to 7 games and almost beat them. We could play defense then (mostly). What the **** happened?

 

[blueberrie]

It was a far better team last year period. Carlyles axe via nonis impaired this team. Grabo and Mac were spark plugs for this team.

Now you have Lupul and Bolland on of which is out. Who motivates this group? The timid yes men, divorce this team from Carlyle to start

Grabo and Mac weren't that great for the Buds last year, they certainly weren't the spark plugs when both got demoted to the third line and Mac was getting rightfully scratched towards the end of the year.

Due to their remarks in the offseason I have my doubts they were great leaders in the locker room as well but nobody here can really be sure.

Biggest difference is Kadri IMO, last year we had a PPG C on our second line winning us games when Kessel wasn't. Now if Kessel's line isn't winning us games, basically nobody is.

Sounds a lot like Selanne. Now that his offensive number has taken a huge dive, he doesn't look very versatile. Regardless, he did have a long and productive career on the Ducks. I don't really see much of an issue with Kessel, but those around him.

Makes me worry about Phil's well noted lackluster offseason routines. The Finnish Flash was able to have that longetivity due to being a gym rat, I don't think that exactly describes Kessel.

 

[BluPuk*]

And CMac wins it for Ottawa. Truly fitting.

Mwahahahahaha. LMAO @ your avatar....

 

[Mindrust]

We lost because no Bozak.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Lol I like the title of this PGT thread. "Big game so naturally leafs lose"

 

[pucky]

No, reality is just setting in.

 

[Faltorvo]

Pathetic, heartless,gutless effort.

Do these guys really know what it takes to be successful pros?

What an absolute waste of money for those paying fans.

These guys looked like they was playing a exhibition game right after winning the cup.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Only guy that has an excuse for his game is Ranger, he was naturally unsure which team was his.

On a more serious note, really ****** games happen. What is interesting and important here is how the team will respond. If they come out of this like Chicago did then I think we'll be fine. Judging by what I've seen of their mentality, I doubt this happens though.

 

[Hyperglide]

It was pretty clear the team had little to no interest in playing tonight.

Rangers seem to be one of the better teams at exposing this joke of a defensive system. Probably because they can cycle and are not afraid to take a ton of garbage shots from the point. Never having the wingers on the points means you get stuck running in circles way too often and accomplish anything.

Babcock figured it out and even said it on HBO, it's just his team isn't as talented. He said "they can't handle you down low!"

The message is clear. This team is weak down low, clearing the crease below the blue line and in the corners and in the slot. This is why we are outshot so bad because we don't have the personnel or system to go get the puck back once a cycle is started.

 

[DaveT83*]

Kessel
Dion
Bozak
Clarkson
Nonis


Good thing we got em all locked up longterm eh. #giveem5moreyears

 

[SprDaVE]

Babcock figured it out and even said it on HBO, it's just his team isn't as talented. He said "they can't handle you down low!"

The message is clear. This team is weak down low, clearing the crease below the blue line and in the corners and in the slot. This is why we are outshot so bad because we don't have the personnel or system to go get the puck back once a cycle is started.

When Franson and Gardiner get a slight forecheck on them, they fold faster than a tent.

Franson has been absolutely putrid this year in terms of managing the puck in his own end. Gardiner's patented move to slow down before the puck and then get it real fast is so easy to read. Because of that move, he gets beat to a lot of pucks which results to more offensive zone time for the other team.

Carlyle has to split them up again.

This defense needs to figure it out. This isn't a coaching issue, you can't teach a player not to literally give the puck to the opposing player 3 times in less than 10 seconds.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Weak down low and other teams know to avoid getting into scraps with the Leafs

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

I wish Randy would just put Lupul back with Kessel already. Clearly having Lupul on our second line is really helping our secondary scoring

Having Lupul on the second line hasn't done anything in the last few games.

 

[Bluelines]

Where the heck was Phil Kessel tonight or whenever we struggle?

When the Leafs sucked at the end of the Sundin era, he was still pulling the team forward every night even with little support. He wasn't an issue. I don't see Kessel doing anything in these games and he never has to stand up in front of the media.

If he could have only scored 6 goals in one game we would of gotta point... yeah..where was Phil and his super human 6 goals in one game effort?

 

[Bluelines]

Weak down low and other teams know to avoid getting into scraps with the Leafs

Last night the NYR forwards cut to the net with out any fear of having their head taken off. Moores goal was simply brutal, how do you let a guy go that wide and then cut in front of the net like that?

Gardnier, Franson and Reilly are all soft defenders, the league knows this and will cut in front with impunity.

 

[The Legend]

I don't know if it's been said yet and I'm not about to read through 16 pages. But can we get some players that want to win?

I'm tired of seeing us lose puck battles, stand around holding our ****, and generally just look like ****. If we lost 7-1 but went out and played hard every shift, I'd still complain, yeah, but at least we'd be able to say that our team did its best.

D'Amigo and Holland need more ice time. They seem to actually care. Raymond and Kadri both need to be benched next game (and Raymond should be traded to be honest -- while he still has some value).

I don't understand how this is the same team that took Boston to 7 games and almost beat them. We could play defense then (mostly). What the **** happened?

Unfortunately, the simple answer is that it's not the same team that took Boston to seven games. Parts of the personnel are different.

 

[McGuiresMonsters]

Whole Leafs lineup doesn't know how to spell intense

 

[likeabosski]

The guy's got style!

Other than the shootout, Lupul is having a brutal year 5 on 5. He produces at times, but as with Kadri what good are you when you are on the ice for more goals against than when you score.

We need more players that are good in all zones of the ice, not just one.

Even in the NHL, the wings are the least defensively responsible position in the game. NHL 1st/2nd line wingers tend to suck at defense. Centres however are expected to play a more well-rounded game. With defenseman shouldering the most defensive responsibility naturally.

Who is the centre on that 2nd line? Nazem Kadri. The problem though is that Nazem Kadri doesn't have the two-way game to compliment Lupul and Raymond. A guy like Kadri (like Mike Ribeiro on the Phoenix Coyotes) needs to play with a two-way winger. That's where everything goes wrong on that 2nd line. The Leafs at present don't have a two-way centre to play on the 2nd line (Bolland is injured). But we do have two-way wingers (Nikolai Kulemin and David Clarkson). So Carlyle should move one of Raymond/Lupul down to the 3rd line and bring up one of Kulemin/Clarkson.

I wouldn't mind trying this kind of set-up with 3 scoring lines (each with a two-way compliment player) and no traditional checking/shut-down line:

van Riemsdyk-Bozak-Kessel
Raymond-Kadri-Clarkson
Kulemin-Holland-Lupul
D'Amigo-McClement-Broll

 

[Milan90]

I love the "where's Phil Kessel when we struggle?!" Posts.

Do you people realize that we struggle when he doesn't score? Does nobody realize that his line is pretty much the only reason we have any offensive output. Obviously his line won't be dominating every game, and when it doesn't, we struggle because we have no secondary scoring.

Get your heads out of your *****.