Bieksa - he brought Sbisa back

[Sojourn]

Oh, I agree. He's not bad, but for $3M+ you expect more. At least I did/do.

No argument from me. You'd expect more, but for his role(as Getz just pointed out) he's actually pretty solid. Pretty consistently solid, too. Nothing flashy, but he plays a simple game and he knows his role.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Oh, I agree. He's not bad, but for $3M+ you expect more. At least I did/do.

Yeah, we used to. But that Stoner contract is starting to look like a great deal compared to Kesler, Silfverberg, Hagelin, and Bieksa. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[snarktacular]

Bieksa's here. And this time, it's intentional.

 

[Robongo01]

https://twitter.com/ducksallday/status/670410383484555264

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Yes, he shouldn't be out there at the end of the games when you're protecting a lead.

 

[Frosted Tips]

Yes, he shouldn't be out there at the end of the games when you're protecting a lead.

This. They guy is not getting better and it's crazy how Bruce just seems to close his eyes and expect a different result game after game after game. He's had chances to figure it out, he's been given the responsibility and the vote of confidence. He hasn't delivered and it's unreasonable to think otherwise anymore. It's not his fault, but why is he consistently being put out there when the best he can really do is glide down the ice? How on earth did BM even think that he could take Beauchemin's place on the team, I don't know.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

This. They guy is not getting better and it's crazy how Bruce just seems to close his eyes and expect a different result game after game after game. He's had chances to figure it out, he's been given the responsibility and the vote of confidence. He hasn't delivered and it's unreasonable to think otherwise anymore. It's not his fault, but why is he consistently being put out there when the best he can really do is glide down the ice? How on earth did BM even think that he could take Beauchemin's place on the team, I don't know.

Because he didn't do his homework and undervalued Frankie yet again.

 

[broman]

https://twitter.com/ducksallday/status/670410383484555264

The saddest part is that Bieksa, godawful that he is, isn't even the worst of it. We also have three Ducks in panic mode, overcommitting themselves out of the play and leaving Hawks with what is essentially a 3-0 on Gibby.

 

[Goose of Reason]

I'd like to see a compilation video of Bieksa slides, or at least know how many he's done already this year

 

[Sojourn]

The saddest part is that Bieksa, godawful that he is, isn't even the worst of it. We also have three Ducks in panic mode, overcommitting themselves out of the play and leaving Hawks with what is essentially a 3-0 on Gibby.

To be fair, it looked like there was a collision with at least two of them. I'm not sure that was over committing by the three players, so much as it was unfortunate.

 

[wraparound]

I'd like to see a compilation video of Bieksa slides, or at least know how many he's done already this year

Make a compilation of all his slides that resulted in shots/goals against and forward it to the Ducks' front office. Should be all they need to figure out the guy is a defensive liability that has no place in the team's defensive top 4

 

[Dirk316]

At this point ill go ahead and say Bieska is now underated

 

[Lord Flashheart]

At this point ill go ahead and say Bieska is now underated

He's about as underrated as ebola.

 

[Bender66]

The saddest part is that Bieksa, godawful that he is, isn't even the worst of it. We also have three Ducks in panic mode, overcommitting themselves out of the play and leaving Hawks with what is essentially a 3-0 on Gibby.

Yawney earning his money.
Does Bieksucks think this is luge? I never thought I'd see a defenseman worse than Trnka but he has managed to prove me wrong.

 

[Sojourn]

At this point ill go ahead and say Bieska is now underated

Only if you value physicality over results. Which is saying a lot, because Bieksa isn't even that physical.

He hasn't been all that noteworthy, even on the best occasions, and he's been outright bad many others. Explain to me how his good outweighs the bad, because I don't see it. I see a player who is right in the middle of the play when the team is bleeding goals. I also see a player who isn't doing enough good to make up for that. Mistakes are part of the game, and that's just the way it is, but Bieksa is making a lot of mistakes, and the rest of the time his play just isn't at a level where you can dismiss the mistakes.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Yawney earning his money.
Does Bieksucks think this is luge? I never thought I'd see a defenseman worse than Trnka but he has managed to prove me wrong.

Trnka? I'm sad now.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Only if you value physicality over results. Which is saying a lot, because Bieksa isn't even that physical.

He hasn't been all that noteworthy, even on the best occasions, and he's been outright bad many others. Explain to me how his good outweighs the bad, because I don't see it. I see a player who is right in the middle of the play when the team is bleeding goals. I also see a player who isn't doing enough good to make up for that. Mistakes are part of the game, and that's just the way it is, but Bieksa is making a lot of mistakes, and the rest of the time his play just isn't at a level where you can dismiss the mistakes.

If you're seeing that, it's because you want to. Numbers, on the other hand, don't support it at all.

But, I mean, you can even see the confirmation bias right in your post. When Bieksa's been good, you refuse to call it that, even there saying he isn't noteworthy at best. I'm not denying he's had some bad games, but not nearly at the level some are saying. It's completely fair to call him underrated on this board.

 

[Sojourn]

If you're seeing that, it's because you want to. Numbers, on the other hand, don't support it at all.

But, I mean, you can even see the confirmation bias right in your post. When Bieksa's been good, you refuse to call it that, even there saying he isn't noteworthy at best. I'm not denying he's had some bad games, but not nearly at the level some are saying. It's completely fair to call him underrated on this board.

I didn't say he was right in the middle of every goal, did I? It certainly feels that way sometimes, but no, he isn't in the middle of every goal.

And no, I don't think Bieksa has been that good. I certainly don't see anything from his play that makes me feel like he's doing more good than bad. Call it confirmation bias if you want, but I see a mistake-prone 3rd pairing defenseman. Playing a confident game isn't the same as playing a good one. Bieksa plays with swagger, and confidence, but he isn't making good decisions out there. He isn't putting in a consistent effort, and he especially isn't doing it at the right times.

 

[AngelDuck]

Bieksa is a 15 minute defenseman that we're trying to shoehorn into a 22 minute role because of his contract. This is a Murray and Boudreau issue, once again. Both of them need to go, they struggle to grasp the most basic stuff at times. Stuff that should be routine, like not giving declining old players NMC's. And not re-signing 30+ year old players a year before they become UFA's.

For Boudreau it's his insistence that a 33+ year old defenseman always has to lead the team in ice time. The job of the coach is to manage the best you can what the pieces the GM gives you. It's clear he hasn't done that this year, no matter what you think of Murray. Murray's job is more complicated but he too has failed big time this year and last

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I didn't say he was right in the middle of every goal, did I? It certainly feels that way sometimes, but no, he isn't in the middle of every goal.

And no, I don't think Bieksa has been that good. I certainly don't see anything from his play that makes me feel like he's doing more good than bad. Call it confirmation bias if you want, but I see a mistake-prone 3rd pairing defenseman. Playing a confident game isn't the same as playing a good one. Bieksa plays with swagger, and confidence, but he isn't making good decisions out there. He isn't putting in a consistent effort, and he especially isn't doing it at the right times.

Obviously not every goal, but even to make the statement implies it's happening to him a lot, or at least a lot more than the others, and both aren't true.

I definitely agree he hasn't been putting in a consistent effort, or having a great season by any means, statements that are applicable to just about everyone, but I think he's been fine, and has gotten better as he's adjusted. I think he has a tendency to make more noticeable mistakes (not necessarily worse, just ones that jump out on the screen a lot more), but I also think he does a lot of the little things. I think he's toned down the aggressiveness a bit as well, and IMO that's been a team-wide issue, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him dial it back even more.

Honestly though, despite being very outspoken you're not nearly as guilty of confirmation bias as a lot of the others.

 

[Sojourn]

Obviously not every goal, but even to make the statement implies it's happening to him a lot, or at least a lot more than the others, and both aren't true.

I definitely agree he hasn't been putting in a consistent effort, or having a great season by any means, statements that are applicable to just about everyone, but I think he's been fine, and has gotten better as he's adjusted. I think he has a tendency to make more noticeable mistakes (not necessarily worse, just ones that jump out on the screen a lot more), but I also think he does a lot of the little things. I think he's toned down the aggressiveness a bit as well, and IMO that's been a team-wide issue, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him dial it back even more.

Honestly though, despite being very outspoken you're not nearly as guilty of confirmation bias as a lot of the others.

I tend to focus on the defense. It's the position I've played all my life, and it's just where I gravitate to. It's why Fowler is my favorite player, why Niedermayer was before him, and why I can't wait to see Lindholm continue to improve. I thought he(Lindholm) played his best game of the season against Chicago. That last play sucked, but hey, mistakes happen. I'm not going to deny I'm extremely unhappy with his(Bieksa's) play right now. Of course, he isn't alone in deserving criticism. There are very few players on the team right now who, I feel, have consistently been pulling their weight.

My issue isn't necessarily that he's making mistakes. Even noticeable ones. My issue are the fundamental ones. Getting caught on the wrong side of players. Leaving the front of the net, or just not returning to it with any kind of urgency. If he were trying to do too much(like when he was actually forechecking, or seemed to be leading the rush) I'd say he needs to simplify. Settle down a bit. In that sense, I think he has, like you said. It's the lack of effort, combined with the fundamental breakdown in his game. I would agree that he does a lot of little things right, but I also won't deny that this isn't enough for me. He's a veteran player, and I'd expect him to do those things right.

To be fair to Bieksa, I don't think this is all on him. The expectations were probably not altogether realistic. He came in and was immediately playing top pairing minutes for us. When was the last time he played those minutes in Vancouver? And, again, to be fair to him, he was playing them with a struggling Lindholm. That pairings struggles were not all on Bieksa. Then there are some other issues out of Bieksa's control, like the injury to Despres. I think in a normal situation, you'd try to ease off Bieksa's minutes a bit, hope he gets more comfortable, and then increase the minutes. At least, that's what I would have hoped to see. Boudreau seems pretty adamant about the 3rd pairing being Stoner and Vatanen, so the options were limited. It's a tough situation for a player who has had a rough start on a new team. I just don't think Bieksa has done himself many favors, and even on his good nights I'm struggling to find a level of play from him that suggests top pairing capable.

Even trying to lower my expectations, I don't see him as a very good top 4 guy right now. Not consistently. Can we really afford him to be less than that? I realize it isn't fair to Bieksa, because he didn't ask to replace Beauchemin.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I tend to focus on the defense. It's the position I've played all my life, and it's just where I gravitate to. It's why Fowler is my favorite player, why Niedermayer was before him, and why I can't wait to see Lindholm continue to improve. I thought he(Lindholm) played his best game of the season against Chicago. That last play sucked, but hey, mistakes happen. I'm not going to deny I'm extremely unhappy with his(Bieksa's) play right now. Of course, he isn't alone in deserving criticism. There are very few players on the team right now who, I feel, have consistently been pulling their weight.

My issue isn't necessarily that he's making mistakes. Even noticeable ones. My issue are the fundamental ones. Getting caught on the wrong side of players. Leaving the front of the net, or just not returning to it with any kind of urgency. If he were trying to do too much(like when he was actually forechecking, or seemed to be leading the rush) I'd say he needs to simplify. Settle down a bit. In that sense, I think he has, like you said. It's the lack of effort, combined with the fundamental breakdown in his game. I would agree that he does a lot of little things right, but I also won't deny that this isn't enough for me. He's a veteran player, and I'd expect him to do those things right.

To be fair to Bieksa, I don't think this is all on him. The expectations were probably not altogether realistic. He came in and was immediately playing top pairing minutes for us. When was the last time he played those minutes in Vancouver? And, again, to be fair to him, he was playing them with a struggling Lindholm. That pairings struggles were not all on Bieksa. Then there are some other issues out of Bieksa's control, like the injury to Despres. I think in a normal situation, you'd try to ease off Bieksa's minutes a bit, hope he gets more comfortable, and then increase the minutes. At least, that's what I would have hoped to see. Boudreau seems pretty adamant about the 3rd pairing being Stoner and Vatanen, so the options were limited. It's a tough situation for a player who has had a rough start on a new team. I just don't think Bieksa has done himself many favors, and even on his good nights I'm struggling to find a level of play from him that suggests top pairing capable.

Even trying to lower my expectations, I don't see him as a very good top 4 guy right now. Not consistently. Can we really afford him to be less than that? I realize it isn't fair to Bieksa, because he didn't ask to replace Beauchemin.

And part of it too IMO is that they're not really similar players. So, no matter what, the comparison would always be awkward. As you said, Bieksa hasn't helped himself, but the difference in style is probably be enough to turn people off.

I agree with easing his minutes and then building him up, but Bieksa's been known as a minutes eater, so maybe that wouldn't make a huge difference. I think he's trying to do too much at times, maybe there'll be some relaxation if the team as a whole gets back on track.

I'm not much into top-whatever labels, especially with the way Bruce uses defenseman, but I do think he's capable of the role he has to fill, which is being the 4th best defenseman on the team. I hope he'll get better, and I don't think it's too far out of the question. Eh, we'll see as the season progresses.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Obviously not every goal, but even to make the statement implies it's happening to him a lot, or at least a lot more than the others, and both aren't true.

I definitely agree he hasn't been putting in a consistent effort, or having a great season by any means, statements that are applicable to just about everyone, but I think he's been fine, and has gotten better as he's adjusted. I think he has a tendency to make more noticeable mistakes (not necessarily worse, just ones that jump out on the screen a lot more), but I also think he does a lot of the little things. I think he's toned down the aggressiveness a bit as well, and IMO that's been a team-wide issue, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him dial it back even more.

Honestly though, despite being very outspoken you're not nearly as guilty of confirmation bias as a lot of the others.

I have to say I'm finding irony in that.

BTW http://www.ocregister.com/articles/writer-693932-ducks-estephens.html
(on Bieksa’s continued struggles …)

“He’s a veteran guy that has to fight his way out of this. We count on him to not make mistakes. We will go as far as guys like him take us.â€

 

[George Binks]

I have to say I'm finding irony in that.

BTW http://www.ocregister.com/articles/writer-693932-ducks-estephens.html
(on Bieksa’s continued struggles …)

“He’s a veteran guy that has to fight his way out of this. We count on him to not make mistakes. We will go as far as guys like him take us.â€

So he is taking us directly to Auston Matthews?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I have to say I'm finding irony in that.

BTW http://www.ocregister.com/articles/writer-693932-ducks-estephens.html
(on Bieksa’s continued struggles …)

“He’s a veteran guy that has to fight his way out of this. We count on him to not make mistakes. We will go as far as guys like him take us.â€

He definitely has to be better, and can be better. I won't say otherwise. I think he's been fine, but fine isn't good enough.

I guess I should clarify. When I say "fine", it's not really a compliment. I don't think he's been bad, that's probably a better way of saying it.