thrash27
Registered User
- Sep 14, 2004
- 44
- 0
thrash27 said:What will Bettman’s counteroffer be?
Leafer4Life said:I have a terrible feeling that it'll include a salary cap.......... Therefore the players will reject it. I hate to be a downer, and I really hope that I'm wrong but it all looks so bleak right now
Jets4Life said:It should look bleak to you. You're a LEAFS fan! We wouldn't be in this mess if it were not for the few teams that are destroying the league (most notably the Maple Leafs and Rangers). These two teams have spend ridiculous amounts of money for players, in hopes of attaining the coveted Lord Stanley. I took great pleasure seeing the small-market Flames making a run to the finals, while the Leafs were teeing up on the 9th hole!
Jets4Life said:We wouldn't be in this mess if it were not for the few teams that are destroying the league (most notably the Maple Leafs and Rangers).
BlackRedGold said:How can you possibly make a claim that the Leafs are "destroying" the league? What have they done to create this "mess"?
Jets4Life said:It should look bleak to you. You're a LEAFS fan! We wouldn't be in this mess if it were not for the few teams that are destroying the league (most notably the Maple Leafs and Rangers). These two teams have spend ridiculous amounts of money for players, in hopes of attaining the coveted Lord Stanley. I took great pleasure seeing the small-market Flames making a run to the finals, while the Leafs were teeing up on the 9th hole!
Jets4Life said:It should look bleak to you. You're a LEAFS fan! We wouldn't be in this mess if it were not for the few teams that are destroying the league (most notably the Maple Leafs and Rangers). These two teams have spend ridiculous amounts of money for players, in hopes of attaining the coveted Lord Stanley. I took great pleasure seeing the small-market Flames making a run to the finals, while the Leafs were teeing up on the 9th hole!
HckyFght said:I'm not sure it's individual teams as much as the Jagr's, Lemieux's, Sundin's and Lindros's of the league, bankrupting their teams with their outrageous salary demands. If the teams don't pay, their season ticket base falls apart and it takes years to rebuild.
-HckyFght!
BlackRedGold said:How can you possibly make a claim that the Leafs are "destroying" the league? What have they done to create this "mess"?
Bulin Wall said:Here's how they (and the Rangers and Flyers and others) have done it:
Say a team (like NYR), wanting to make a splash in their market and with money to burn, signs a stiff (say Bobby Holik) to a $9+ million/year contract. When pending UFA #1 with similar or slightly lesser stats reaches the end of his $3 million contract, he takes the team to arbritration, arguing that he should be paid $7 million because, look at Holik, see what he's making! The arbitrator rules for the pending RFA, the club pays the arbitration award because they don't want to lose a valuable asset in RFA #1, and BINGO! the new marketplace for ALL just-above-mediocre defencemen jumps 33% to 5-million dollars AMERICAN.
Next season, well-run, small market Canadian team #1 (say for example purposes, Calgary) sees one of their better, young defencemen coming up for RFA in the next year or two and smartly tries to lock them into a long-term deal making $3.5 million per, knowing that if they make arbitration they'll be awarded at least $5 million by either an arbitrator or the "market," because that's what the new bar is set to thanks to NYR's overspending. The agent for the defenceman (who also represents Holik) rejects Calgary's attempts to sign that player to any long term deal, knowing that if they do, it will hurt that player's "market" value (which is already overinflated thanks to NYR). So the player rejects all attempts to be signed for the long term, and one of three things happens:
1) the player wins a huge arbitration award and the club (who won't be able to afford it) is forced to walk away from the award and make the player a UFA,
2) the team trades away the player for two unproven young players, knowing that they'll get at least something back for him instead of losing him entirely, or
3) the most likely scenario: the player gets a 110% qualifying offer, and either the player holds out for a better deal (more likely) or they sign a 1-year contract, and then the process starts all over again next year with the player wanting yet another "better deal" (of course, it'll be for the "market," which in the interim has been inflated again with TOR's signing of UFA free-agent defenceman #2 to a $10 million deal).
In any of the cases above, how can CGY possibly compete on the same level as TOR and NYR for their home-grown talent? Answer: THEY CAN'T.
You see, none of these franchises can be taken in isolation - the competitive "marketplace" in TOR or NY is markedly different from, say, CGY or ATL. However, the decisions that teams in TOR, NY, PHI or MON affect EVERYONE regardless of revenues or how well-run the organizations themselves are run.
Hope this clears things up - and it's another example of how this League needs either a hard cap or a very steep luxury tax structure, combined with a comprehensive league-wide revenue sharing system that includes regular-season and playoff revenues, to survive long term.
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Bulin Wall
Ola said:If this was the case, removing the right to salary arbitration would fix all probelms. Right?
BlackRedGold said:How can you possibly make a claim that the Leafs are "destroying" the league? What have they done to create this "mess"?
Bulin Wall said:If it were only that easy. Yes, arbitration as it currently stands is a BIG part of the problem - but there's more to it than that. Unfortunately, since one agent represents many players (and they're competing against themselves in the marketplace, which in any other industry would be a blatant conflict of interest), it doesn't work that way. Removing arbitration (or giving the clubs the right to take an underperforming player like Alexei Yashin to arbitration) would only slow the upward trend of salaries, but the agents will always find a sucker like NYR to sign someone to a big UFA contract, and then they would pressure their clients with similar stats to hold out if need be for a "market" deal.
It doesn't help that big agencies like IMG (who represent players from all major sports, not just hockey) are treating hockey players in negotiations like MLB and NFL players, when the revenues generated in the NHL from TV and sponsorships are a tiny fraction of those leagues...
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Bulin Wall
s7ark said:One thing that is mystifying me from NHLPA supporters is when they point to bad management and bad drafting as the reason teams are on the verge of bankruptcy. When did it become on teams drafting record for them to stay in the league? If you draft and trade badly then your team should suck, not disappear.
Part of a stable league is teams not having to move locations every few years.
Yes Edmonton drafted VERY badly in the 90s. But that doesn't change the fact that they had to trade, Guerin, Weight and lost Cujo all because other teams set the market value of these players and the Oilers couldn't match that.
They drafted badly and their teams hasn't been good because of it, but should they be forced to shutdown because of it? It isn't like they don't have the support of the fans, they are very popular, but because of the lack of population in the city, the team can't match revenues of cities that have 5+ million people.
chara said:If the NHLPA is smart, they should negotiate with the framework the league gives them. It won't get much better and at least they'll salvage this season and all of next.
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BlackRedGold said:How can you possibly make a claim that the Leafs are "destroying" the league? What have they done to create this "mess"?
Ola said:I agree with that. Allot of changes have to be made, no doubt. But Bettman isn´t trying to put together a league that can survive and grow. He is trying to breake the PA and make a helluva lot of money for the owners. He is trying to make the teams he put in the wrong markets succesful. Remember it isn´t teams like Edmonton who has problems. Edmonton currently ranks between 12-16 of the most profitable teams.
Cropduster said:what scares me is that we are going to lose this season because of pride, of "not giving in"-Iam afraid they won't be "smart"