Better future: Buffalo Sabres vs Toronto Maple Leafs

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm a Sabres fan that would drop everything to trade franchises with Toronto, provided we get coach and front office as well.

This is just a dumb question in principle. One team is loaded with good young players and set to tweak things and become a contender, the other has nice potential and dreadful results to date that needs a miracle to get to the point the other is at right now.

Toronto is the wrong team to compare Buffalo to.

However, I would certainly not trade places with any other franchises in similar places as Buffalo right now (Zona, Vancouver, Detroit, Ottawa, Montreal, teams like that)

Toronto is the wrong team to compare Buffalo to but somebody does it every year

 

[tony d]

Went with Toronto.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lets wait until Buffalo stops finishing in last place before we compare teams.

This is HF boards that won't happen

 

[IPS]

Lets wait until Buffalo stops finishing in last place before we compare teams.

For sure.

Sabres fans for the most part are a very good bunch. You guys deserve a great team going forward and it's looking like you guys finally got the pieces going forward to have just that.

 

[Randy Randerson]

both look pretty good, shapes up for nice symmetry if everyone turns out

Eichel v. Matthews
ROR v. Kadri
Risto v. Rielly
Mittelstadt v. Marner
Nylander v. Nylander
Dahlin v. Liljegren

will make for a nice divisional rivalry if everyone turns out

 

[NextYear67]

Curious, those of you picking Buffalo... who's in net?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

both look pretty good, shapes up for nice symmetry if everyone turns out

Eichel v. Matthews
ROR v. Kadri
Risto v. Rielly
Mittelstadt v. Marner
Nylander v. Nylander
Dahlin v. Liljegren

will make for a nice divisional rivalry if everyone turns out

ROR might be traded

 

[Randy Randerson]

ROR might be traded

for sure, and Mittelstadt, A. Nylander and Liljegren might not turn out but it looks like nice symmetry if all goes right

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

for sure, and Mittelstadt, A. Nylander and Liljegren might not turn out but it looks like nice symmetry if all goes right

No what I meant was there is legitimate talk ROR could be traded according to Bobby Mack

 

[Randy Randerson]

No what I meant was there is legitimate talk ROR could be traded according to Bobby Mack

I know, and there's as much of a chance that one or more of those 3 prospects don't turn out as there is that ROR is traded. There's lots of things that could mess up the symmetry of the rivalry between the teams, but it sets up very closely until something happens to derail that

 

[Empoleon8771]

I am really, really surprised that this poll is as close as it is. Like am I watching a different version of the Sabres who don't suck? Dahlin doesn't change the shopping list of issues they still have.

The Sabres currently have a franchise 1C (Eichel), a 1C (ROR, who may be traded), a #1D if he pans out (Dahlin), a #3D (Ristolainen), 2 top end young players with potential (Reinhart and Mittelstadt) and a couple of good prospects. That's really not much. Nylander is looking like a bust so far and they have some solid prospects, but no one with that high of upside. The Leafs have almost all of that (the only one they don't have is Dahlin IMO, but Rielly may become a #1D) and then a whole bunch more. Matthews, Kadri, Rielly, Zaitsev, Matthews and Marner blow that group out of the water, and then you also have guys like Kapanen, Gardiner, Andersen (not sold on Lehner staying in Buffalo or being that good), Brown and maybe Komarov or JVR.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

In what way is Buffalo's core better?

Matthews > Eichel
W Nylander >>>> A Nylander
Marner >> Middlestadt
Rielly > Risto
Liljegren << Dahlin

The only part Buffalo wins is Dahlin versus Toronto's comparable D prospect which is clear cut. Kadri worse than RoR but that doesn't make up the gulf in class everywhere else. Toronto has superior goaltending too.

Lol
Liljegren <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dahlin

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I am really, really surprised that this poll is as close as it is. Like am I watching a different version of the Sabres who don't suck? Dahlin doesn't change the shopping list of issues they still have.

The Sabres currently have a franchise 1C (Eichel), a 1C (ROR, who may be traded), a #1D if he pans out (Dahlin), a #3D (Ristolainen), 2 top end young players with potential (Reinhart and Mittelstadt) and a couple of good prospects. That's really not much. Nylander is looking like a bust so far and they have some solid prospects, but no one with that high of upside. The Leafs have almost all of that (the only one they don't have is Dahlin IMO, but Rielly may become a #1D) and then a whole bunch more. Matthews, Kadri, Rielly, Zaitsev, Matthews and Marner blow that group out of the water, and then you also have guys like Kapanen, Gardiner, Andersen (not sold on Lehner staying in Buffalo or being that good), Brown and maybe Komarov or JVR.

Rielly is a #1 D after last season, what they don't have is a #2 John Carlson would fit like a glove you add him and your D is

Rielly
Carlson
Drrmott
Gardiner
Hainsey
Zaitsev

That's pretty good, and all it takes is 1 guy.

Our D isn't as bad as people think it just needs 1 piece, it's a significant piece, but it's only 1 piece

 

[Royal Thunder]

I am really, really surprised that this poll is as close as it is. Like am I watching a different version of the Sabres who don't suck? Dahlin doesn't change the shopping list of issues they still have.

The Sabres currently have a franchise 1C (Eichel), a 1C (ROR, who may be traded), a #1D if he pans out (Dahlin), a #3D (Ristolainen), 2 top end young players with potential (Reinhart and Mittelstadt) and a couple of good prospects. That's really not much. Nylander is looking like a bust so far and they have some solid prospects, but no one with that high of upside. The Leafs have almost all of that (the only one they don't have is Dahlin IMO, but Rielly may become a #1D) and then a whole bunch more. Matthews, Kadri, Rielly, Zaitsev, Matthews and Marner blow that group out of the water, and then you also have guys like Kapanen, Gardiner, Andersen (not sold on Lehner staying in Buffalo or being that good), Brown and maybe Komarov or JVR.

They really don't blow them out of the water at all. I straight up 1000% would not trade our 6 mentioned core guys for those 6. It's mainly Andersen, the forward depth, and Babcock (in that order) that have separated the two teams for the last couple seasons. The Leafs have been managed better from top to bottom for the last 3 or 4 seasons, while the Sabres appear to just now be finally getting some traction and competent leadership with Botterill running the hockey department. Leafs are way ahead right now but don't get too cocky, things can change fast....

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They really don't blow them out of the water at all. I straight up 1000% would not trade our 6 mentioned core guys for those 6. It's mainly Andersen, the forward depth, and Babcock (in that order) that have separated the two teams for the last couple seasons. The Leafs have been managed better from top to bottom for the last 3 or 4 seasons, while the Sabres appear to just now be finally getting some traction and competent leadership with Botterill running the hockey department. Leafs are way ahead right now but don't get too cocky, things can change fast....

There was a 43 point gap between the Leafs and Sabres I assure you the reason for that is not simply Andersen and Babcock

 

[Atomos2]

They really don't blow them out of the water at all. I straight up 1000% would not trade our 6 mentioned core guys for those 6. It's mainly Andersen, the forward depth, and Babcock (in that order) that have separated the two teams for the last couple seasons. The Leafs have been managed better from top to bottom for the last 3 or 4 seasons, while the Sabres appear to just now be finally getting some traction and competent leadership with Botterill running the hockey department. Leafs are way ahead right now but don't get too cocky, things can change fast....

Meh, I’d wager Shanahan is the most valuable asset in either organization. This guy won’t let the ship stray too far. He came in, swept the slate clean with mass firings, assembled an all star management team and coaching staff...then for no other reason then it being in the plan, fires Lou and appoints Dubas new gm. This guy is cold, calculated and has all the power. Might be crazy but I’d prefer having him in a position of power over anyone in either organization.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Meh, I’d wager Shanahan is the most valuable asset in either organization. This guy won’t let the ship stray too far. He came in, swept the slate clean with mass firings, assembled an all star management team and coaching staff...then for no other reason then it being in the plan, fires Lou and appoints Dubas new gm. This guy is cold, calculated and has all the power. Might be crazy but I’d prefer having him in a position of power over anyone in either organization.

Not sure I'd quality what happened as firing Lou

 

[Team Cozens]

No what I meant was there is legitimate talk ROR could be traded according to Bobby Mack

And then the Sabres get a really good player in return. He’s not a JVR UFA.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

And then the Sabres get a really good player in return. He’s not a JVR UFA.

They are still getting worse down the middle no matter what

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

The difference in the two teams isn't high end players. Buffalo's top end players are very comparible to Torontos. It's after that the two teams are like night and day. If Toronto called up the whole Marlies team, put Matthews, Nylander, Reilly, Gardiner, and Kadri on that team. Put a bad goalie in there. You'd have the Buffalo Sabers.

 

[Royal Thunder]

There was a 43 point gap between the Leafs and Sabres I assure you the reason for that is not simply Andersen and Babcock

Correct, it was Andersen, Babcock, and the Leafs having immensely better forward depth.

 

[Knies iT]

The difference in the two teams isn't high end players. Buffalo's top end players are very comparible to Torontos. It's after that the two teams are like night and day. If Toronto called up the whole Marlies team, put Matthews, Nylander, Reilly, Gardiner, and Kadri on that team. Put a bad goalie in there. You'd have the Buffalo Sabers.

Toronto's high end talent, depth, goaltending, and coaching are all superior to Buffalo's. The only answer Buffalo has to the big 3 is Eichel, who Matthews is better than. There is nobody else close to Marner/Nylander, and Rielly is better than any Sabres defender as it stands today (Dahlin could change that in the future).

Depth is also not even comparable. Toronto can roll 4 lines with players like Kapanen, Brown, Johnsson, etc. etc. on the 4th line, while guys like Leivo sit in the press box. Right now the Marlies are slaughtering the AHL and might win the calder cup with borderline NHLers in Grundstrom, Sparks, Pickard, Engvall, Aaltonen, Borgman, Dermott, etc. The Leafs essentially are the Marlies with the amount of graduates they pump out.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Toronto's high end talent, depth, goaltending, and coaching are all superior to Buffalo's. The only answer Buffalo has to the big 3 is Eichel, who Matthews is better than. There is nobody else close to Marner/Nylander, and Rielly is better than any Sabres defender as it stands today (Dahlin could change that in the future).

Depth is also not even comparable. Toronto can roll 4 lines with players like Kapanen, Brown, Johnsson, etc. etc. on the 4th line, while guys like Leivo sit in the press box. Right now the Marlies are slaughtering the AHL and might win the calder cup with borderline NHLers in Grundstrom, Sparks, Pickard, Engvall, Aaltonen, Borgman, Dermott, etc.

BS. Matthews and Eichel are very comparible if all homer glasses are removed. Reilly is not better than Ristolainen. His stats are better because the team around him is much better. Put Reilly in Ristolainen's shoes and he doesn't "look" like a #1 defenceman anymore. And we don't have a Nylander or Marner. We have Reinhart that plays wing but should be a center. But the rest of your post about depth and coaching I agree with.

 

[Martin Skoula]

BS. Matthews and Eichel are very comparible if all homer glasses are removed. Reilly is not better than Ristolainen. His stats are better because the team around him is much better. Put Reilly in Ristolainen's shoes and he doesn't "look" like a #1 defenceman anymore. And we don't have a Nylander or Marner. We have Reinhart that plays wing but should be a center. But the rest of your post about depth and coaching I agree with.

Rielly gets harder minutes in both zone starts and QOC, his partner is worse than Ristolainen's, and he gets way less PP time.

Put Ristolainen's in Rielly's shoes he's a 30 point defensive liability.

 

[Zaddy]

Leafs in the short-term. Sabres probably in the long-term but it's tough to predict anything long-term in this league. If Leafs can fix their defense they'll have a pretty good team. Sabres even with Eichel and Dahlin might struggle if they don't have the depth (and a goalie).