Best player in franchise history-Winnipeg Jets

[GoldenSeal]

Got to be more specific.Which Jets are we talking about?

The Jets->Yotes or Thrashers->Jets?

IF we're talking the afore, I got a few names for you like Dale and Shane and The Wall, if we're talking about the later, that list is wafer thin. I'd say Kovalchuk, then Wheeler, then whatever else.

 

[Strong Hearts]

Got to be more specific.Which Jets are we talking about?

The Jets->Yotes or Thrashers->Jets?

IF we're talking the afore, I got a few names for you like Dale and Shane and The Wall, if we're talking about the later, that list is wafer thin. I'd say Kovalchuk, then Wheeler, then whatever else.

If you're confused, you can just take a look at the poll options.

 

[GoldenSeal]

If you're confused, you can just take a look at the poll options.

There are two separate Jets teams that the question can be applied to. Younger folks have grown up with one Jets team while people like me have seen two Jets team iced. It's a nitpick question but it doesn't make it not a valid one.

And judging how you responded to me, I'm thinking you're one of the younger folks.

 

[biturbo19]

You're missing the point the same name doesn't make it the same franchise

But what makes it a Franchise? By the definition used here, it's "Ownership". And in most cases, why should we really care about that...if it comes at the expense of such a quagmire of understanding.


I mean, the Stars thing works the opposite, and i think most people inherently understand it because of that. "Who is the best Stars player of all time"...well, it's someone who played for the Stars. That much is clear.

"Who is the best Jets player of all time"...well you see, it's...someone who never once played a single game of hockey for the Jets. Obviously.

Obtuse, yes?

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

No option for Dale Howerchuk? Easily better than all these dudes.

 

[ClydeLee]

No option for Dale Howerchuk? Easily better than all these dudes.

View attachment 565224

He already lost his poll

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

He already lost his poll

But, he was a Jet. He played like 9, or 10 years for Winnipeg and is easily the best player in the history of that franchise. Am I missing something here?

 

[toothlessgoon]

Op can make a best Thrashers player poll.

They could also make a poll for best New York American.

Conversely, there is nothing stopping you from making your own poll about the Jets and tacking on Dale Hawerchuk and Teemu Selanne.

 

[toothlessgoon]

I guess. Creating this whole mess that obviously confuses people and makes a muck out of the polls just so one player in Kovalchuk can get his due, just seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


Maybe you let Thrashers compete within the "best Jets" category and just go toe-to-toe on even footing with Classic Jets if you have to. But i'm perfectly okay with having the Thrashers just having their own sidenote poll. Especially since Kovalchuk himself (the specific erased played in question), also ends up in another poll.

No, what would muck things up would be if I did what you suggested. So for the sake of consistency I would have to take out the players who played for the previous iteration of all relocated franchises. Then there would be comments along the lines of "Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh why isn't Peter Stastny on the Avs poll? OP is an idiot". By the same token, Ron Francis won the Hurricanes poll largely from his time with the Hartford Whalers. If looking strickly at his Hurricanes tenure, you would be hard pressed to say he deserved it over Eric Staal.

 

[biturbo19]

No, what would muck things up would be if I did what you suggested. So for the sake of consistency I would have to take out the players who played for the previous iteration of all relocated franchises. Then there would be comments along the lines of "Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh why isn't Peter Stastny on the Avs poll? OP is an idiot". By the same token, Ron Francis won the Hurricanes poll largely from his time with the Hartford Whalers. If looking strickly at his Hurricanes tenure, you would be hard pressed to say he deserved it over Eric Staal.

No. You wouldn't have to do that in the slightest.

What messes up this poll is the Team Name being the same. The same name as an active franchise. Winnipeg Jets are Winnipeg Jets. Which "Franchise" is the Winnipeg Jets? The Arizona Coyotes or the Winnipeg Jets? It's obtuse.

Stars are Stars, regardless of whether they played in Minnesota or Dallas. That's easy to follow. If you ask, "Best Minnesota North Star" or "Best Dallas Star", that's also entirely clear.


When it comes to now defunct Teams like the Whalers or Nordiques, there's no "New Team" to obfuscate the question. There are no more Hartford Whalers. If the Quebec Nordiques come back as a new or relocated franchise...sure, that will raise the same issue. Heck, if the Atlanta Thrashers came back...that would also complicate things. Or especially if they came back as the Atlanta Flames. But the odds of all of that are extremely low. And if it happens...you deal with it. Like a normal fan who by and large sorts things by "Team Name and >>> Place".

 

[jetsforever]

Half the people here want to vote for a Thrasher and the other half want to vote for the current Coyotes franchise
I'm just going to go with Byfuglien

 

[jetsforever]

No. You wouldn't have to do that in the slightest.

What messes up this poll is the Team Name being the same. The same name as an active franchise. Winnipeg Jets are Winnipeg Jets. Which "Franchise" is the Winnipeg Jets? The Arizona Coyotes or the Winnipeg Jets? It's obtuse.

Stars are Stars, regardless of whether they played in Minnesota or Dallas. That's easy to follow. If you ask, "Best Minnesota North Star" or "Best Dallas Star", that's also entirely clear.


When it comes to now defunct Teams like the Whalers or Nordiques, there's no "New Team" to obfuscate the question. There are no more Hartford Whalers. If the Quebec Nordiques come back as a new or relocated franchise...sure, that will raise the same issue. Heck, if the Atlanta Thrashers came back...that would also complicate things. Or especially if they came back as the Atlanta Flames. But the odds of all of that are extremely low. And if it happens...you deal with it. Like a normal fan who by and large sorts things by "Team Name and >>> Place".

A few years ago the official NHL stats website used to be broken down by "team" not "franchise", so Winnipeg (1979), Phoenix, Atlanta, and Winnipeg were 4 separate entities, which I liked. Now it is mostly just grouped by franchise but at least the old Winnipeg (WIN) and the new one (WPG) have different abbreviations to keep them separate.

 

[SUX2BU]

Hawerchuk

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Why are we the ones responsible for voting for players that have never had any association to our city and team, as we know it? Find some Thrasher fans and have them vote, they have more to do with it than we do.

 

[toothlessgoon]

With Kovalchuk winning this poll, it just makes all the complaints about Hawerchuk pointless. Hawerchuk had every opportunity to win the Coyotes poll just like Kovalchuk won here, but he didn't. So you can't say he got screwed over by people not voting for him for never putting on a Coyotes uniform. Although I think that largely has to do with most of this board not being born yet during the duration of the prime of his career, on top of him being overshadowed by Wayne Gretzky for those that did watch him.

 

[um]

With Kovalchuk winning this poll, it just makes all the complaints about Hawerchuk pointless. Hawerchuk had every opportunity to win the Coyotes poll just like Kovalchuk won here, but he didn't. So you can't say he got screwed over by people not voting for him for never putting on a Coyotes uniform. Although I think that largely has to do with most of this board not being born yet during the duration of the prime of his career, on top of him being overshadowed by Wayne Gretzky for those that did watch him.

you're nuts.

Kovalchuk is not a Jet dude. Hawerchuk is.

 

[tarheelhockey]

How is it being oddball?

Kovalchuk literally never played for a team called the Jets.

It clearly says franchise in the OP. It is just a fact that the current Jets are the same franchise as the Thrashers.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What messes up this poll is the Team Name being the same. The same name as an active franchise. Winnipeg Jets are Winnipeg Jets. Which "Franchise" is the Winnipeg Jets? The Arizona Coyotes or the Winnipeg Jets? It's obtuse.

It's not obtuse. A franchise is a legal entity with a completely clear, unambiguous identity. The current Winnipeg Jets are the same franchise as the Atlanta Thrashers. The former Winnipeg Jets are the same franchise as the Arizona Coyotes. This is absolutely clear-cut, zero interpretation involved.

This set of polls has consistently asked us to think about the franchise, so in this case it's a vote on modern Jets/Thrashers players. There is no way to read "best player in franchise history" to include anyone from the 1979 Jets.

 

[biturbo19]

It's not obtuse. A franchise is a legal entity with a completely clear, unambiguous identity. The current Winnipeg Jets are the same franchise as the Atlanta Thrashers. The former Winnipeg Jets are the same franchise as the Arizona Coyotes. This is absolutely clear-cut, zero interpretation involved.

This set of polls has consistently asked us to think about the franchise, so in this case it's a vote on modern Jets/Thrashers players. There is no way to read "best player in franchise history" to include anyone from the 1979 Jets.

You get a junior partnership out of this or what?

As a fan, "legal entities" are a lot less compelling than "Sports Teams".

 

[tarheelhockey]

You get a junior partnership out of this or what?

As a fan, "legal entities" are a lot less compelling than "Sports Teams".

Not really sure what you're trying to say here.

OP asked a clear question about a specific franchise. If you would find it more compelling to answer a different question, there's always the option make a new thread.

But acting like the OP's question is ambiguous... no, it's not. The word "franchise" specifically identifies which teams we're talking about.

 

[biturbo19]

Not really sure what you're trying to say here.

OP asked a clear question about a specific franchise. If you would find it more compelling to answer a different question, there's always the option make a new thread.

But acting like the OP's question is ambiguous... no, it's not. The word "franchise" specifically identifies which teams we're talking about.

I think if you read the comments, you'll find that i'm not the only one who thinks this particular "franchise" arrangement in this case, is kind of confusing and misrepresentative of Winnipeg Jets players.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think if you read the comments, you'll find that i'm not the only one who thinks this particular "franchise" arrangement in this case, is kind of confusing and misrepresentative of Winnipeg Jets players.

It's more like people are answering the question they wanted to hear, instead of the one that was actually asked.

There's nothing wrong with thinking of Winnipeg Jets history as a story in two chapters, but when someone says "franchise history" it has a specific meaning which is not confusing at all. The current Jets are the same franchise as the Thrashers, it's simple.

 

[biturbo19]

It's more like people are answering the question they wanted to hear, instead of the one that was actually asked.

There's nothing wrong with thinking of Winnipeg Jets history as a story in two chapters, but when someone says "franchise history" it has a specific meaning which is not confusing at all. The current Jets are the same franchise as the Thrashers, it's simple.

Yes. It's almost like Sports Fans are wanting to vote as Sports Fans. Of a Winnipeg Jets team. Weird, i know.


It's almost like some dude buying a team away from Winnipeg decades ago in a crying shame that has turned into a downright embarrassment trying to build on a garbage dump...isn't something that really resonates with hockey fans.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes. It's almost like Sports Fans are wanting to vote as Sports Fans. Of a Winnipeg Jets team. Weird, i know.


It's almost like some dude buying a team away from Winnipeg decades ago in a crying shame that has turned into a downright embarrassment trying to build on a garbage dump...isn't something that really resonates with hockey fans.

OK, but that resentment is a you problem, not a problem with the clarity of the question or the meaning of the word "franchise". That's what I responded to, particularly the part where you accused OP of creating a mess when in fact he's created a very orderly and consistent and reasonable structure for this series of polls.

Someone has made a thread specifically for the two sets of Winnipeg Jets players, so everybody should be happy now.

 

[ijuka]

Kovalchuk easily.