Best national team ever
- Thread starter VMBM
- Start date
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Ok, that's 'asinine'.
What is the problem exactly? You know, with that attitude we would have missed a lot of great international hockey over the years ("it wasn't fair because they had their system and we didn't, bohoo"). Luckily Alan 'the Eagle' Eagleson was obsessed to prove that any team with the best Canadian players would beat the Soviets!
Would you have been happier if I compared Soviet club teams with their NHL counterparts??? Or did the Soviet teams have some unfair advantages there as well?
Edit: I can see that you feel there's something fundamentally wrong with comparing the teams, but lighten up, goddammit! A lot of the discussions/comparisons here at History of hockey are 'pointless' - for want of a better word.
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VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
The 1978 Soviets were a better team than the 1979 and 1981 squads, IMO.
'79 team no Fetisov or Maltsev
'81 team no Kharlamov, etc.
The 1978 team had only 3 forward lines (though all of them great no question). I think having 4 lines (and all of them very capable of scoring) was a big advantage in 1979 and 1981.
No Fetisov or Maltsev in '79 is a fair point, but it hardly seemed to matter. Such was their form in the 1978-79 season - especially in the Spring of 1979. Look at the 3rd game of the Challenge Cup; Kharlamov and Vladimir Golikov injured, and yet: 6-0 with NHL All Stars barely getting a decent scoring chance in the game.
And IMO the 1977-81 version of Kharlamov was a shadow of his former self anyway. He could still be brilliant, but he was not THE key player on the team anymore.
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
I know you already know this, but the 1998 Czechs?
Well, a goalie is a part of the team and pretty important one at that! And they seemed to be 'impossible' to beat, when it mattered.
So right you are.
My bad. I don't think they would have gotten too many votes though.
But like I've said here many times; their win over the Soviets in the 1984 CC semi-final was the best performance by a Canadian team [vs. USSR] in a clutch game ever IMO.
The 1978 Soviets were a better team than the 1979 and 1981 squads, IMO.
'79 team no Fetisov or Maltsev
'81 team no Kharlamov, etc.
Kharlamov was dead when the 81 Canada cup came around. So I don't think they could have played him anyway
. If I remember correctly he wasn't asked to be on the team so he was on vaction and died in a car accident
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Kharlamov was dead when the 81 Canada cup came around. So I don't think they could have played him anyway
Yup. And I think he played his last game ever in Finland http://www.chidlovski.net/1954/54_game_info.asp?gm_id=gm589
FinnGoalie
Registered User
- Jul 24, 2007
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I know you already know this, but the 1998 Czechs?
Well, you know how the saying goes; a good goalie could be more than a half a team. That's it.
Vladsky
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2008
- 275
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After winning the 1984 Olympics, the Soviets briefly held the most official/unofficial hockey titles that ever existed in international hockey:
Olympic champions
IIHF World champions
European champions
Canada Cup holders
Sweden Cup holders (yes, there was one in the 80s!)
Izvestia Cup holders
A couple of months later Team USSR lost the Sweden Cup in a blowout final game vs. Czechoslovakia (Tretiak's last ever game, IIRC). This was the start of that team's undoing, as they would miss the Canada Cup final in the fall of that year, and finish 3rd in the 1985 World Champs (I still believe that the story ends at the World Champs, not CC semifinals).
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Vladsky
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2008
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The full-strength Soviet side played 3 best-on-best full-format Canada Cups, of which they won one and lost two. The 1987 edition was all about refereeing. Go learn some history, dude.
Vladsky
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2008
- 275
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This. I still remember Krutov skating circles around Ray Bourque, not to mention Normand Rochefort.
Fredrik_71
Registered User
CCCP 1981. This thread is about the best national team ever. Not about the most loaded. I have never seen a more dominant team period. I'm talking about maybe 10 years with the KLM line and the big russian machine. Big props to Victor Tichonov for molding this team. There will never be another equally good team because never again will a team be locked away for 10 months a year on training camp.
/Cheers
/Cheers
1-2
And they are the best team ever?
Even by your skewed standards (as was pointed out early; the penalties were even in 1987 and Messier, Lemieux and Gretzky would have hardly needed help, anyways), that's the best team ever????
You simply do not have a leg to stand on.
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
1976 Team Canada playes vs. USSR second squad. Your star team edged hardly.
1979, 1981 we thrashed yours.
1984 you edged 3-2.
1987. scandal. or farce honestly. It was admited by commentator, by officials, by everyone who are not used to wear rose glasses. I'd never be able to pride the victory grabbed this way. If you pride i feel sorry for you. Don Koharsky can pride for his job. He's done all demanded from him. Canadian referees the key match with Team Canada participation. In 1981 director of the tournament said that Cup will never leave Canada anymore and he kept his word
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW9TEb2BuQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCh4PtteLuY
1991 USSR sent very weak team even not 2nd squad, but Canada couldn't won head-to-head.
Best teams as i see were 2002 Canada, and 1987 (yes, it's not mistake) USSR
VMBM 1987 Renvez-Vous NHL team won 4-3, 5-3 won USSR 2nd game. Correct please.
1979, 1981 we thrashed yours.
1984 you edged 3-2.
1987. scandal. or farce honestly. It was admited by commentator, by officials, by everyone who are not used to wear rose glasses. I'd never be able to pride the victory grabbed this way. If you pride i feel sorry for you. Don Koharsky can pride for his job. He's done all demanded from him. Canadian referees the key match with Team Canada participation. In 1981 director of the tournament said that Cup will never leave Canada anymore and he kept his word
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW9TEb2BuQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCh4PtteLuY
1991 USSR sent very weak team even not 2nd squad, but Canada couldn't won head-to-head.
Best teams as i see were 2002 Canada, and 1987 (yes, it's not mistake) USSR
VMBM 1987 Renvez-Vous NHL team won 4-3, 5-3 won USSR 2nd game. Correct please.
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VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
1976 Team Canada playes vs. USSR second squad. Your star team edged hardly.
1979, 1981 we thrashed yours.
1984 you edged 3-2.
1987. scandal. or farce honestly. It was admited by commentator, by officials, by everyone who are not used to wear rose glasses. I'd never be able to pride the victory grabbed this way. If you pride i feel sorry for you. Don Koharsky can pride for his job. He's done all demanded from him. Canadian referees the key match with Team Canada participation. In 1981 director of the tournament said that Cup will never leave Canada anymore and he kept his word
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW9TEb2BuQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCh4PtteLuY
1991 USSR sent very weak team even not 2nd squad, but Canada couldn't won head-to-head.
Best teams as i see were 2002 Canada, and 1987 (yes, it's not mistake) USSR
VMBM 1987 Renvez-Vous NHL team won 4-3, 5-3 won USSR 2nd game. Correct please.
First of all, I really don't understand what you want me to correct; none of my posts have anything to do with the 1987 Rendez-vous.
Even though I do think that in the 1987 CC finals (game 3) the reffing was a suspect, you are really overdoing it. Which commentator admitted what? Which officials?
A Soviet team with just 2 great scoring lines + ok defense + Mylnikov & Beloscheikin in the nets (1987 team) doesn't deserve to be mentioned among the greatest Soviet teams of all-time IMO.
Correct.
1987 USSR is extremely overrated relative to other Soviet teams.
They had fantastic top-end talent, but laughable depth (especially on defense) and terrible goaltending. They didn't even win the WC in 1987 (5 months earlier)....and lost to Sweden in 1987 CC round robin.
I also fail to understand, based on performance, how 1987 Canada is rated so highly when they were neck-and-neck with 1987 Soviets in every game played.
I think it's just hard to get past having Gretzky and Lemieux on the same team for (sadly) the only time ever. Messier, Bourque, Coffey, etc as well.
But yeah, the bottom end of that team isn't particularly inspiring on paper (Crossman, Dineen, C. Lemieux, etc). Fuhr-Hextall-Hrudy probably won't go down as one of Canada's greatest goaltending entries either.
Because they were even weaker and could never won withous refferees, who simply killed Soviet Team.
Defense was not the best i'm agreed, but attack was simply unstopable and it was good depth in attack. Almost all players from that team were more or less succesful in NHL in 90s.
Ok, if you don't want to admit obvious thing it's your right.
I'm not hockey fan and don't remember names. If you are interested in hockey history it will not be hard to find it out.
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Of course you're not, neither am I, who here is?!!!
No, I'm not interested enough in this part of hockey history (conspiracy theories).
Of course you're not, neither am I, who here is?!!!
No, I'm not interested enough in this part of hockey history (conspiracy theories).
To you it's the conspiracy theory. To me... I'm used to believe my eyes. And Alan Eagleson is the conspirologist by your words. And half of the world too.
If You win honestly -- it's your you win.
If not -- it'll be mentioned even through the years. All the world remember that England won 1966 World Cup with the help of the refferee. And all the world remember in 1987 Canada Cup final, the man in striped shirt played for the hosts.
I attached videos, you even didn't try to watch it. And i know why: you don't want to let your illusions to leave you, cause they're so sweet.
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